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Yea the problem is just saying I went Penn really doesn't mean much outside of undergrad (unless you're a horse person I guess). And you mentioned MD's, its hard because no one wants to pay a vet the same. I mean, I totally understand it, but I don't know how schools can keep raising tuition knowing that. 

 

My opinion -- the whole medical education system is jacked up. We restrict the hell out of the supply side on doctors and we work them to the point of exhaustion during school and residency, We create a situation where they need to be "greedy" (don't take that too literally) to justify their career. Then, by the time they are ready to teach the next generation, the price tag on their time is so high that the cost of the education skyrockets. A new generation is born with hundreds of thousands in debt. Cycle repeats.

 

Doesn't everyone know someone who they consider to be pretty smart but didn't get accepted into medical school? Not saying I would want that person to give me open heart surgery, but I'd be fine with them giving me a physical or prescribing antibiotics for a sore throat.. There should be a happier medium. Hard to stop that train once it's rolling, though.

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I absolutely agree, and I don't take it personally at all. The reason I don't want to work with clients/private practice is because I know that the cost of good health care (medical or vet) is so incredibly high. And I don;t think it is unfair for people not to want to pay the same for their dog as they do for their mother or whatever. But unfortunately, everything is so expensive: the drugs, the instruments, etc. I think many people with insurance are shielded from that a bit due to insurance. They don't understand how much money it actually costs to run a blood test, and then get angry when they see the bill. It's not their fault, but its just frustrating all the way around since there's no real way to fix it. 

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god. student loans. I worked my ass off and have none... nothing. I owe nothing and it feels great. I have a career in a field that I’m passionate about. that’s pretty okay with me. Back to the money issue though, I know quite a few people who just keep taking their refund checks, taking the loans, with no scope of how this will effect them in the future. One of my friends has over 80,000 in loans. her boyfriend has about 35,000. She has constant anxiety about it.

 

I don’t know if you are essentially talking about wondering ‘what-if’ but, I kind of do. I mostly think about the little decisions that had a huge impact on my life. Like how you can be in a certain place at a certain time and have a chance meeting with a person who will change your entire life. blows my mind.

 

 

one of my best friends went to a private academy for high school, and then a private college. he has a shit ton of loans, and currently shares a job with 3 of my friends who simply graduated university. he spends every single weekend reffing hockey, track & field, etc. he does roofing for his dad. he barely has time to himself. because he had to have a prestigious education.

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not all prestigious educations cost an arm and a leg. the friend that i mentioned earlier got paid around $25k a year to go to Harvard and get his PhD in mechanical engineering. the funny thing is if he'd have only gotten his masters, he would have had to pay them.

 

I have a $40k a year stipend (plus health insurance and tuition) to work on my PhD. It's really on the high end of what a student can make but it has nothing to do with the university (I go to Wayne State, which is not an elite school but it is in the top 40 schools in the country for my field. Georgia Tech is #1).

 

Almost no one pays for their PhD. It would make no sense to commit to 4 more years of school to go hundreds of thousands in debt when you could take a master's level job. We usually get paid just enough to come out even.

 

Congrats to your friend. That is impressive. I wish I would have applied to more prestigious schools. I chose Wayne State for 2 reasons -- 1) I already lived in the area and 2) I went there for undergrad, so I already knew all the professors and it was an easy transition. I wish I had at least applied to U of Michigan, though.

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I have a film production degree from a school thats not USC or NYU.  I work part-time for minimum wage at a radio station for blind listeners.  I have lots of student loan debt.  

 

I think about this kind of stuff all the time.  But on the positive side, I love my job and I'm not really hurting at this point, so I guess I can't complain yet.

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Why does everyone feel so stuck? I've attempted to start my own production company four times. Four times I've failed. Once due to a friends betrayal. Once due to a publishers error and twice solely because I couldn't make it happen. I'm in the process of ramping up to try again. I have a great career where I am finding lots of success but that next step up has alluded me. Maybe this year is my year but I won't be content unless I keep trying. 

 

I know a woman who is over 50 who is in her residency after going to Med School recently. She won't be a surgeon at her age but she found a way to make it work. 

 

I'm constantly debating if I want to be a lawyer instead of a filmmaker - why tell stories of people making a difference instead of being on the front line? So I'm going to take a pre-law review. I think I might want to go into press communications in the Political Sphere so I am taking on an opportunity in that realm as we speak. My time is so damn limited but it stretches. 

 

I don't see anyone in this thread that is too old to not make a change. I'm not claiming it will be easy. All my failures have been a kick in the gut that took time to recover from. But I refuse to believe I'm ever cemented into any one course in life if I don't want to be. I don't know, I see a lot of folks around me complain and I'm constantly trying to give advice and get them motivated and a couple in the past few years really have and they are so much happier for it. Trying and failing is better than not trying. 

 

Good luck to all you seekers. 

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not all prestigious educations cost an arm and a leg. the friend that i mentioned earlier got paid around $25k a year to go to Harvard and get his PhD in mechanical engineering. the funny thing is if he'd have only gotten his masters, he would have had to pay them.

 

Also, my school's policy is to make people pay for their masters, then they can be admitted to the PhD program and get the stipend + tuition.

 

Harvard is sitting on hundreds of millions in cash. It's mentioned in the news once in a while. They can do things like pay for a masters. Their only concern is the person's aptitude and ability to conduct research. My school is broke as a joke.

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its natural to think about how the choices we have made impact who we are, where we are, and how we got here. I'm trying to figure out what the hell happened with me. I currently have my masters degree in a field that I probably hate but found out too late. Im working at a pizza place while trying to figure things out on the fly. I have asked myself quite a few times those "what if" questions. but ultimately I am here and need to make the best of it.

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Dave, two things:

 

Remind me of your documentary and suggest where I can see it? Is it widely available?

 

Someone I really trust told me that the two most important fields for going to a prestigious university are business and law. There is a huge difference in pay between someone with a Harvard Law degree than someone who went to a directional school (eastern this, southern that). I think a lot of people graduating from Tier 3 and lower law schools right now are getting offers in the $40ks and $50ks. I'd really investigate what graduates of whatever school I was going to are being offered and try hard to score high on the LSAT.

 

If it's not a financially motivated decision, I understand. Good for you. Just saying where my head would be at.

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Not sure what the going rate on student loans is but they are generally considered OK as long as they don't get out of control and there is a prospect of a decent job when you get out. Every average college student who does things right should be able to avoid the $100k student loan. They should be working while in school and not taking 5-6 years to graduate. If you do things right there is no reason you can't get a good degree with $20 or $30k in debt when you finish, which is peanuts over a career. You will have a million dollars come in and out of your hands.

 

Not trying to be a contrarian. I agree with your point. I also think that if done right, it's a great investment in yourself.

 

In general:

 

4% or lower interest loans -- good debt. Not much more than inflation and the interest doesn't kill you: This would mostly be mortgage debt.

 

5% to maybe 8% loans -- OK. You don't want to carry them long term but if you need them and attack them quick, they don't set your life back

 

9% and higher loans -- shit. Stay away.

 

dont get me wrong, i get it as far school loans being low interest. the problem is there are so many people lumbering around with degrees that are completely useless to them and it cost them tens of thousands of dollars (if not more) to learn that very harsh realization. this is obviously for a larger discussion, but in my opinion, when i was in high school - there was literally nothing to teach anyone about any sort of basic, real-world life skills. money management especially. im not talking "high finance" or investing - simply the value of a dollar. i learned more about life and the "real world" working a part time job in high school. not everyone does that though. combine that with the coddling you get - ya know like "you can be whatever you want, you can do whatever you want with your life" - and the fact that no one there will tell you that life is going to kick you in the ass more than you can possibly imagine (except maybe dad who you probably dont listen to anyway) - and you have a recipe for disaster. how crazy is it that literally no 18yr old would ever be handed a 100k mortgage, but if you apply for a 100k student loan chances are nobody is going to bat a fuckin' eyelash?

 

if youre going into a field that has a great upside to it and thats what you want to do, then perfect - but it seems to me most of the time the career path with the upside is usually at odds with what people actually want to do with their lives. its not unlike when art meets commerce. yeah, sometimes it mixes and sometimes it mixes with great success beyond anything i could ever imagine. the majority of the time it doesnt. id just like to see more people evalulate the true expense of something like a college education and the dominoe-effect it will have thereafter in their life. not everything is a given but a lot of people when youre at that age will make you think that it is and thats why we've got the fine art graduate doing nifty little art designs in your cup of coffee every morning. im pretty sure though thats not what they had in mind as a career.

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Making life decisions is tough.

 

I'm currently finishing up my associates degree at a community college in Humanities and Communications. I want to go to a nice film school because what I really want to get into is Film/Music. Shit costs waaaaay too much money and if I try to pursue this then I'm faced with the decision: should I take loans out the ass and jump into an expensive film school? Or try and find other ways to get into the Film industry?

 

I don't know.

 

For the  longest time I've been back and forth between music and film because I try and be realistic about whether or not I can make a living doing either. 

 

I have a small amount of fear that if I make one decision it will lead me to just failure and disappointment.  However, I'm learning also that certain decisions I've made in the past, whether good or bad, have taken me on a journey through life that I can't take back or regret. I try and just make a decision and then push myself while allowing life to sort of take its course.I trust that life will guide me in an adventurous direction. I'm trying not to be afraid to jump as I have been in the past.

 

All this probably makes no sense haha. 

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It's easier to get the $100k because it cannot be dismissed in bankruptcy court. The only way they don't get their money back is if you die or flee the country, right? Mortgage you can just walk away from wtihout anything worse than bad credit.

'

Another problem (similar to what you are talking about) is the amount of people who get degrees, use them for 2 years, then become stay at home parents. It's mostly women, but I'm trying not to be sexist and include men too. I'm all for people having a career, a family, or both. But getting a degree, taking time off to raise some younguns, then trying to go back 12 years later when they are all grown up is a huge waste. Those people take up scholarship money, school resources (time, seats, administrative work, etc...) and reduce the total pool of money available for loans to those who will use their degree. If someone's life plans include a couple kids and staying at home with them during their formative years, they should really think hard about whether investment in a degree makes sense.

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Also, my school's policy is to make people pay for their masters, then they can be admitted to the PhD program and get the stipend + tuition.

 

Harvard is sitting on hundreds of millions in cash. It's mentioned in the news once in a while. They can do things like pay for a masters. Their only concern is the person's aptitude and ability to conduct research. My school is broke as a joke.

yeah, he graduated first in his engineering class at Bucknell, which is probably why he got into Harvard. the killer flying robots he was working on was funded with some huuuuuuge grant from the Department of Defense. it actually made the list of some extreme GOP pundit's biggest waste of taxpayer dollars list. my friend was super proud of that fact, incidentally.

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Making life decisions is tough.

 

I'm currently finishing up my associates degree at a community college in Humanities and Communications. I want to go to a nice film school because what I really want to get into is Film/Music. Shit costs waaaaay too much money and if I try to pursue this then I'm faced with the decision: should I take loans out the ass and jump into an expensive film school? Or try and find other ways to get into the Film industry?

 

I don't know.

 

For the  longest time I've been back and forth between music and film because I try and be realistic about whether or not I can make a living doing either. 

 

I have a small amount of fear that if I make one decision it will lead me to just failure and disappointment.  However, I'm learning also that certain decisions I've made in the past, whether good or bad, have taken me on a journey through life that I can't take back or regret. I try and just make a decision and then push myself while allowing life to sort of take its course.I trust that life will guide me in an adventurous direction. I'm trying not to be afraid to jump as I have been in the past.

 

All this probably makes no sense haha. 

 

If I were you, after all that I've learned in film school, I wouldn't spend the money on it unless you're going to a big college for it or are trying for those big contacts, if that makes sense.  So much of the theory and practices you can learn from a good film theory book and watching a bunch of movies.  On the contrary, hands-on experience beats all, especially if you have professors who know their shit.

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Dave, two things:

 

Remind me of your documentary and suggest where I can see it? Is it widely available?

 

Someone I really trust told me that the two most important fields for going to a prestigious university are business and law. There is a huge difference in pay between someone with a Harvard Law degree than someone who went to a directional school (eastern this, southern that). I think a lot of people graduating from Tier 3 and lower law schools right now are getting offers in the $40ks and $50ks. I'd really investigate what graduates of whatever school I was going to are being offered and try hard to score high on the LSAT.

 

If it's not a financially motivated decision, I understand. Good for you. Just saying where my head would be at.

 

I do counseling for undergrads considering pursuing a grad degree in documentary.  You know the advice I give a lot of them? Why take out $75k in loans when you can make your own film for less? If I opted to be a lawyer I need a law degree though. It's not a financially motivated question and the odds of me jumping from doing TV is very slim but I prefer to answer my doubts instead of allowing them to haunt me. I have three projects lined up right now so switching careers would be a huge risk as I have 3-4 years of work in my lap. 

 

A high salary however is meaningless to me. My Brother is a lawyer who does contract law at a huge global firm. He earns 1.7 million a year. He spends this time at partner parties telling everyone about my latest work and travel and adventures. I mean, we can all use a bit more money but I couldn't imagine spending the next 30 years in a gig I hate for any reason. 

 

My doc is Running frm Crazy - it will be  on OWN at some point. It's doing Festivals right now. If anyone here sees it coming near them hit me up and I'll see about comp tickets. 

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I'm not trying to start an argument or anything like that, just trying to gain a better understanding of where you're coming from: You think that, as an 18 year old, people (men & women alike) should decide whether they should either go to college or have a family?

 

No, but I think they should have a sense of how they would want to raise their kids. I'm mostly referring to women. I think a lot of them have plans that look something like college -> work -> children (taking time off to raise them) - > maybe go back to work when they are say 10 years old and don't require as much attention (but by that time, they usually aren't very employable as they have been gone so long). If that was how someone saw their life going, I think it would be wasteful to get a degree.

 

If they saw a child or two in their future, would try and rely on say their grandparents or day care, and work, then a degree makes a lot of sense.

 

I realize your point that people are 18 and don't have their life planned out. I really do think some people have the first life arc as their plan. They go to college because that's what everyone says they are supposed to do. Really their goal is to have a family and make it their life. Am I being too stereotypical?

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I somewhat saved myself from a lot of trouble in choosing schools. I had intended to go to a private school to get a degree in Music Business and would have owed ~$140k after four years. Me and my folks talked about it, and we decided that a public school was a better option (they also said they would help if I went to a cheaper school which also swayed my decision). Now I'm on a scholarship to said public school and will be able to graduate with a major in Music Business and a minor in Business and Marketing for ~$35k not including any help from my parents. I'll also use two of those semesters to intern at some type of record label and I'm thinking a semester in Atlanta, and a semester somewhere more up north. 

 

I still would really love to go to the private school, but I feel I'm gonna thank myself in the end when I don't have $100k more to pay back.

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No, but I think they should have a sense of how they would want to raise their kids. I'm mostly referring to women. I think a lot of them have plans that look something like college -> work -> children (taking time off to raise them) - > maybe go back to work when they are say 10 years old and don't require as much attention (but by that time, they usually aren't very employable as they have been gone so long). If that was how someone saw their life going, I think it would be wasteful to get a degree.

 

If they saw a child or two in their future, would try and rely on say their grandparents or day care, and work, then a degree makes a lot of sense.

 

I realize your point that people are 18 and don't have their life planned out. I really do think some people have the first life arc as their plan. They go to college because that's what everyone says they are supposed to do. Really their goal is to have a family and make it their life. Am I being too stereotypical?

I see your point of how, as you are growing up, you are taught High School > College > Job > Marriage > Family > Happiness.  But I don't know if starting a family =/= going to college.  Mainly because, as we all know, "life gets in the way sometimes."  There are just so many variables that one could never anticipate, and I don't think that boiling it all down to the money a college or university has and to which students that money is given to makes much sense.  Maybe I'm thinking too liberally, but I stand behind the "everyone should have the opportunity to higher education."

 

And no, I don't think you're being stereotypical, because sometimes men become the stay at home parent.  I just think you're coming at this with a financial mindset and a possibly fluidity of family/life planning.  I'm coming at it from the other direction where I don't think education and social status & family should be opposite of each other.

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I hit that point about two years ago. My band was starting to get pretty serious and it was either go on tour and live the crazy band life for the next ten or so years of my life, or finish college and become a high school English teacher. I am currently 6 weeks away from graduating with a bachelors degree in education and even though it was difficult at the time, quitting my band was the best decision I ever made...

 

It is really weird how when you are growing up you think something is so important and you will do anything to get it...and then one day you wake up and it just doesn't make sense anymore...

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If I were you, after all that I've learned in film school, I wouldn't spend the money on it unless you're going to a big college for it or are trying for those big contacts, if that makes sense.  So much of the theory and practices you can learn from a good film theory book and watching a bunch of movies.  On the contrary, hands-on experience beats all, especially if you have professors who know their shit.

 

Ya, the college I'm going to has a decent film program but I also do feel that I can learn a lot of what a classroom would teach me from theory books and movies. Currently I'm an Intern at the Film Commission's Office here in Arcata in Humboldt County. I've been paying much attention to tips and advice the Film Commissioner has been giving to me. I'm learning a lot of the permits and legalities with filming, at least in California.

 

I'm looking at my big steps I'm taking with a clear and open mind. I'm also being resourceful. Learning as much as I can without having to feel a big dent in my wallet.

 

All in all, I just want to know that the school I'm going to has professors that know there shit. Currently right now at the community college I'm at, my video production teacher knows his stuff and has also been giving good tips and advice when it comes to filming techniques.

 

Thanks for your input, its always good to hear from others their thoughts on similar matters.

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