Tommy Posted December 6, 2015 Share Posted December 6, 2015 In the market for an integrated amplifier, what do you guys recommend in the $3-400 range? I don't need a radio just a simple great sounding integrated amp to pair with my project esprit. This is for a medium sized bedroom setup, don't need anything too loud. Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 6, 2015 Share Posted December 6, 2015 I like my Music Hall a15.3. You might be able to grab one in that range. There is also the Rega Brio, that has been in sale on LPGear, for a great deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommy Posted December 6, 2015 Author Share Posted December 6, 2015 I'm liking the reviews on that 15.3. I never noticed it before but these amps don't have bass/treb knobs. Does that ever cause you any issue? I am constantly tweaking the bass/treb on my current receiver to compensate for the different mastering of the LPs I own. Not having that option scares me. Am I missing something? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 6, 2015 Share Posted December 6, 2015 Without them, it gives the "pure" sound of the master. I find them pointless, which is why I got it, but some people might use them. A better amp with show everything better, so you will probably find you won't need to tweak anything, like on a cheap amp. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommy Posted December 6, 2015 Author Share Posted December 6, 2015 Ok, that makes sense. I just read the same type of explaination on an AV forum. Thanks for your help, Thomas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xxmartinxx Posted December 6, 2015 Share Posted December 6, 2015 Also, the EQ circuity degrades the signal path. You're unlikely to find any high end audio amplifiers that have EQ's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allenh Posted December 6, 2015 Share Posted December 6, 2015 Have a look at some of the Cambridge Audio range as well, they are quite nice sounding and still have bass and treble if you really feel you need them, I haven't heard anything Cambridge against anything Music Hall as we don't get Music Hall here but I suspect they are in the same ball park. With proper HiFi the higher up the food chain you go the less outward bells and whistles you get which tends to be the opposite if it's an AV receiver then a lot of manufacturers like to throw in as many functions and features as they can. I know this isn't particularly relevant as it's about AV receivers but it should give you an idea of the thinking of some manufactures. I once read a review of some AV amplifiers one from Arcam and the rest from the usual subjects, Denon, Yamaha, Onkyo and Pioneer and the reviewers basic summing up was that with the best of the Denon, Yamaha, Onkyo and Pioneer units which was the Yamaha if he got it in the right mode and set it up exactly right after lots of button pressing and trial and error it would sound really good but with the Arcam he needed one button to get it to sound really good which was the power button. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommy Posted December 22, 2015 Author Share Posted December 22, 2015 Any thoughts on the Marantz PM5005? I am leaning towards that amp at this point. I was on a Yamaha A-S501 kick for a while, but I think i'm leaning towards the PM5005 based on reviews. Thoughts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tardcore Posted December 22, 2015 Share Posted December 22, 2015 No direct experience with the PM5005, but I owned the PM5004 and PM6004 before getting a PM8004. I found the PM5004 and PM6004 to be pretty similar. They are both capable of driving moderately efficient speakers and reasonable volume levels and have great no-frills feature sets. The newer line has adds a digital input to the PM6005 to differentiate it from the PM5005. Stepping up to the PM8004 was a completely different ballgame. The 8xxx model is made in Japan along with Marantz's reference components and is more substantial in every way. It also adds a power-amp only mode which makes it an extremely flexible component. A new PM8005 is obviously out of your price range, but if you keep an eye open, I have seen used PM8004s show up on ebay for basically the same price you would pay for a new PM5005 (I paid $500 for mine). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommy Posted December 22, 2015 Author Share Posted December 22, 2015 Yeah, i'm in the $500 ballpark right now and have no need for a DAC. So basically a basic, no frills integrated amp is what i'm looking for. May search for the 8005 if i can find it second-hand etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freki Posted December 22, 2015 Share Posted December 22, 2015 Have you looked into the PS Audio Sprout? I don't know much about it other than all the praise it's gotten, but it's something I'm going to demo when I'm next in the market. I love the simplicity and size. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xbpr Posted December 23, 2015 Share Posted December 23, 2015 I've been in the market for a new integrated to replace my malfunctioning Marantz 2220B. I was considering the PM5005 as well as the Music Hall a15.3. Then I saw the now discontinued Cambridge Audio Azur 351a on Amazon for a decent price, so I ended up picking that up. It doesn't have a phono stage, so I picked up a Schitt Mani which put me around the $430 mark. So far I'm pleased with the new setup. Good luck with your hunt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allenh Posted December 23, 2015 Share Posted December 23, 2015 A new PM8005 is obviously out of your price range, but if you keep an eye open, I have seen used PM8004s show up on ebay for basically the same price you would pay for a new PM5005 (I paid $500 for mine). This is the way I'd go if it was my money, let someone else pay for the depreciation and this always used to be common practice with the Japanese makers where the average models are made in China or Taiwan and then there is a level you get above for the Japanese made stuff which is always markedly better made Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommy Posted December 23, 2015 Author Share Posted December 23, 2015 This is the way I'd go if it was my money, let someone else pay for the depreciation and this always used to be common practice with the Japanese makers where the average models are made in China or Taiwan and then there is a level you get above for the Japanese made stuff which is always markedly better made After reading up on it I have shifted my efforts to the 8004/8005 and setup eBay notifications to keep an eye out for one at a decent price second hand. I don't mind waiting for one at the right price. Thanks guys! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sidney Crosley Posted December 23, 2015 Share Posted December 23, 2015 Be sure to look at US Audio Mart and Canuck Audio Mart too (the Canadian dollar is quite low in value right now, so even with shipping and import costs it may still be worth it). You can set up notifications on those sites as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommy Posted December 23, 2015 Author Share Posted December 23, 2015 Just signed up for both US and Canuck AM, thanks for the tip! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebilljim Posted December 23, 2015 Share Posted December 23, 2015 This is probably a dumb question, so I don't want to start a whole new thread with it...I have a Sony PSLX300 as my turntable right now, which has its own preamp. Some of what I've read about integrated amplifiers say they're essentially a preamp & amp built into a single unit, so...would that NOT work for me? Right now my setup is embarrassing. I have my TT going straight into the aux inputs of a shitty 5.1 system, and I want to use my Christmas bonus from work to upgrade. I found a Harmon/Kardon PM640 tonight at a shop for $120, and was thinking that plus a set of decent bookshelf speakers might be the way to go, but if an integrated amp won't work with my TT, I don't want to waste the cash. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommy Posted December 24, 2015 Author Share Posted December 24, 2015 I believe it will work. If your turntable already has a built in pre amp, there will be no need to use a phono stage as the signal will have already been amplified. I there is a way to disable the pre-amp on the TT you could then utilize the phono stage on the HK. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allenh Posted December 24, 2015 Share Posted December 24, 2015 This is probably a dumb question, so I don't want to start a whole new thread with it... I have a Sony PSLX300 as my turntable right now, which has its own preamp. Some of what I've read about integrated amplifiers say they're essentially a preamp & amp built into a single unit, so...would that NOT work for me? Right now my setup is embarrassing. I have my TT going straight into the aux inputs of a shitty 5.1 system, and I want to use my Christmas bonus from work to upgrade. I found a Harmon/Kardon PM640 tonight at a shop for $120, and was thinking that plus a set of decent bookshelf speakers might be the way to go, but if an integrated amp won't work with my TT, I don't want to waste the cash. Sort of there are two sorts of pre amps and it causes a lot of confusion. The item in your turntable, any external one or any built into an integrated amplifier, receiver or pre amp should correctly be called a phono stage as it is there purely to amplify the low level signal from a turntable cartridge to line level which is the signal level that all other domestic sound sources use. From a technical stand point it is a pre amp as it's used before another stage of amplification but because it goes before the pre amp stage in any other amplifier it's better to give its proper name or at least call it a phono pre to make it easier to differentiate. A pre amp is the first stage of amplification in an integrated amplifier or receiver and can also be a stand alone item, these then drive the power amplifier or amplifiers that drive your speakers. Just to confuse matters some integrated amplifiers, receivers and pre amps contain a phono stage and some don't and to confuse things even more some like those from Cambridge audio will have a position on the source switch for phono but won't contain a phono stage as these are intended to use an external phono stage or have an add on module to be fitted inside. You are correct in that an integrated amplifier is a pre amp and a power amp in the same box in the same way that a receiver is an integrated amplifier with a radio tuner in the same box Your Harmon Kardon will have a built in phono stage that should be quite an improvement on the one in your turntable so you can either switch off the one in your turntable and go into the phono input or leave it on and go into any of the other inputs, personally I’d open that Sony up and bypass any electronics between the cartridge and the output plugs but that's because I can. Either way to make noise out of a record player you need a phono stage into a pre amp into a power amp into speakers these things can all be separate or in the same box or a combination of boxes but electronically they all need to be there. For any amplifier if you want to know if it has a phono stage inside if you google the specs or look them up on hifi engine you are looking for a signal level value for MM or MC as these are the standard signal levels for phono cartridges with MM being the more common, if it isn't there it will just give a line level value and MM and or MC won't be there at all. Hopefully I've explained it without too much waffle but I couldn't make it simpler without pretty pictures Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommy Posted December 30, 2015 Author Share Posted December 30, 2015 This is the way I'd go if it was my money, let someone else pay for the depreciation and this always used to be common practice with the Japanese makers where the average models are made in China or Taiwan and then there is a level you get above for the Japanese made stuff which is always markedly better made Allenh, i'm still on my hunt for an 8004 and think i have found one on Canuck Audio Mart, but before I pull the trigger I was wondering your thoughts on Integrated amp with phono stage (all in one) vs. buying an integrated amp and a separate phono stage pre-amp. I saw in a couple threads up a dude bought a CA 351a and CA 551p combo (which amounts to about $450 online). I know they say having these two components separate is generally better, and as I imagine it gives you more room to grow since you can upgrade the Amp and Pre-amp separately as you go. Worth looking into or stick with the 8004? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 The phono stage in my music hall does not sound nearly as good as my schiit mani. The only way for you to really decide is to listen to the phono stage, and a separate phono pre. I imagine on most modern amps, a stand alone will sound better, since the phono stage is usually an after thought. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tardcore Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 You aren't required to use the onboard preamp. You can always upgrade later to an external phono preamp and simply plug it into one of the other line level inputs, but I think you'd be looking in the $300+ range to find an upgrade unless you need MC capabilities. That said. I am still using the onboard preamp on my PM8004. I believe it pulls its weight with my other gear: Marantz TT 15S1 turntable with Clearaudio Virtuoso MM cart Monitor Audio RX8 floorstanding speakers EDIT: Almost any review you read on the Marantz PM8xxx line will stress that the phono stage is NOT just a throwaway inclusion. I think that the lack of a digital input such as the one included in integradeds a lower in the line (PM7005 and PM6005) kind of drives that point home. For reference, I'm thinking that my next move might be to try a Clearaudio Nano V2 as my next upgrade Tommy 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommy Posted December 30, 2015 Author Share Posted December 30, 2015 You aren't required to use the onboard preamp You make a good point tardcore. I guess I never considered it before. Eventually i'd like to move up to a Moving Coil cartridge and I know the PM8004 is only a MM. Looking at the Cambridge - Azur 651P i can see it handles both MM/MC so technically, like you said, If i get the 8004 now I can eventually get a dedicated pre-amp if it ever comes to that. By the way, your Marantz TT 15S1 is my dream table. Thing is so damn sexy and i'm a sucker for all things Marantz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tardcore Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 You make a good point tardcore. I guess I never considered it before. Eventually i'd like to move up to a Moving Coil cartridge and I know the PM8004 is only a MM. Looking at the Cambridge - Azur 651P i can see it handles both MM/MC so technically, like you said, If i get the 8004 now I can eventually get a dedicated pre-amp if it ever comes to that. By the way, your Marantz TT 15S1 is my dream table. Thing is so damn sexy and i'm a sucker for all things Marantz about a year ago, Music Direct was offering the TT 15S1 as a B-stock for $1000 and I couldn't resist. A few of us picked them up back then. Another plug for the PM800x is that it has a really handy Power Amp only mode. This allows you to completely defeat the preamp section and integrate it into something like a home theater setup to drive your front speakers and then swap back to a pure stereo setup without messing with any cables or having the AV receiver in the loop mucking things up. Tommy 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xxmartinxx Posted December 31, 2015 Share Posted December 31, 2015 You aren't required to use the onboard preamp. You can always upgrade later to an external phono preamp and simply plug it into one of the other line level inputs, but I think you'd be looking in the $300+ range to find an upgrade unless you need MC capabilities. That said. I am still using the onboard preamp on my PM8004. I believe it pulls its weight with my other gear: Marantz TT 15S1 turntable with Clearaudio Virtuoso MM cart Monitor Audio RX8 floorstanding speakers EDIT: Almost any review you read on the Marantz PM8xxx line will stress that the phono stage is NOT just a throwaway inclusion. I think that the lack of a digital input such as the one included in integradeds a lower in the line (PM7005 and PM6005) kind of drives that point home. For reference, I'm thinking that my next move might be to try a Clearaudio Nano V2 as my next upgrade For nearly $500 in the used market, you can do a lot better than the Clearaudio Nano. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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