VinylGyroid Posted February 26, 2016 Share Posted February 26, 2016 So, a little bit of backstory. This morning I made the first of many steps towards my first "proper" setup, I'm currently stuck with a Crosley and I'm trying to fully upgrade as soon as I can. My first purchase was a pair of AKG Q701 headphones. The setup I originally intended on was:Denon DP-300F (2M Blue) > preamp (never decided on a model) > Audio Engine A5+'s / HeadphonesI've come to the realization that with the inclusion of my new headphones I'll also need to purchase an amp and this is where things are starting to confuse me. The Denon DP-300F has it's own built in phono preamp and so do most of the integrated amplifiers I've come across (the one that has caught my interest is the Marantz PM5005, to be specific). Is this going to be an issue for me? Will the two built in phono preamps clash with each other and if so is there an amplifier anybody can suggest that would serve me better in my situation? Also, should I still consider buying an external preamp for better sound quality?Outside of my (useless) knowledge of my Crosley, the technical side of "the hobby" is still new to me so I apologize if these questions are kind of basic. Any and all help is appreciated, thank you in advance! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mesi Posted February 26, 2016 Share Posted February 26, 2016 The Denon appears to have a dedicated switch that lets you turn the built-in preamp on or off. So if you want to use the phono input of another amp, you can just plug it in there. If you plan on picking up an integrated amp, I don't really see the point in getting the Denon, as you will not be using the preamp of the turntable. Why not look in the direction of a Music Hall, Rega, Pro-ject, or even a U-Turn? Also, if you get an amp, why still buy active speakers? As for your other question, I would not bother with another external preamp for the time being. Just put together a setup, enjoy it for some time, and then, down the road, decide for yourself which upgrades might be beneficial. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sidney Crosley Posted February 26, 2016 Share Posted February 26, 2016 Mesi said it well - may want to think about what turntable if you're getting an integrated amp as you'd waste some of the value in getting the Denon if it already has a phono preamp. If you want to use active speakers, and add a way to use your headphones, my suggestion would be to get a Schiit Magni 2 Uber ($150 US). It is a very capable headphone amp (and I'm assuming for this you would use the preamp in the Denon for now), and use it for its outputs to the active speakers. Note: you need to get the Magni 2 Uber for the pre-outs; the Magni 2 doesn't have that. VinylGyroid 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VinylGyroid Posted February 26, 2016 Author Share Posted February 26, 2016 If you plan on picking up an integrated amp, I don't really see the point in getting the Denon, as you will not be using the preamp of the turntable. Why not look in the direction of a Music Hall, Rega, Pro-ject, or even a U-Turn? Also, if you get an amp, why still buy active speakers? I was actually considering the Pro-Ject Carbon or U-Turn orbit before the Denon, maybe it's time to think again. As for the speakers, I can get a pair of Audio Engine P4's bundled with the Marantz PM5005 so I was leaning towards that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajxd Posted February 26, 2016 Share Posted February 26, 2016 Seriously, don't get that Denon. I think 5 people have mentioned this to you now. Its a seriously weak link. Especially putting a $200 cart on it. VinylGyroid 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allenh Posted February 26, 2016 Share Posted February 26, 2016 Your bigger problem if you are getting the Marantz is that it won't work with your Audio Genie's unless you use the pre out on the Marantz which would be pointless. Both have power amplifiers in and you cant connect one after the other without making smoke. If you are getting the Marantz then get proper passive HiFI speakers and a better turntable and you will have a half decent system VinylGyroid 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VinylGyroid Posted February 26, 2016 Author Share Posted February 26, 2016 Seriously, don't get that Denon. I think 5 people have mentioned this to you now. Its a seriously weak link. Especially putting a $200 cart on it. You and one other person have but neither of you gave any explanation why, I've heard nothing but good things about it otherwise. If it's not going to effectively pair up with an amp and passive speakers though, I'm not going to go with it and be missing out on anything. So it's not a matter of the stereo system as I thought it was, it's just a matter of what kind of turntable will be most effective with an integrated amp and passive speakers? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mesi Posted February 26, 2016 Share Posted February 26, 2016 If you can't buy local, try having a look over at musicdirect, they have some solid sales right now. http://www.musicdirect.com/c-864-Winter-Specials.aspx If I were you, I would not worry about getting a 2M Blue or the like for the time being. Just start out with a modest table that comes fitted with a solid cartridge, and then, after having it around for a few months or years, upgrade the cart. Do you have a budget? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VinylGyroid Posted February 26, 2016 Author Share Posted February 26, 2016 Do you have a budget? I'm looking to keep the grand total under $1500, just as I'm sure you've all seen by now I don't know the technical side of things to be confidently making these purchases because with my luck I'd put together a setup that either A. doesn't work or B. isn't living to it's full potential. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajxd Posted February 26, 2016 Share Posted February 26, 2016 You and one other person have but neither of you gave any explanation why, I've heard nothing but good things about it otherwise. I know I've seen it in the post your setup thread, your upgrade thread, and in one other spot (record storage thread?). So at least 3! Avoid automatic turntables. Avoid BPC (black plastic crap). Avoid built in pre-amps. Avoid shit cartridges. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mesi Posted February 26, 2016 Share Posted February 26, 2016 I'm looking to keep the grand total under $1500, just as I'm sure you've all seen by now I don't know the technical side of things to be confidently making these purchases because with my luck I'd put together a setup that either A. doesn't work or B. isn't living to it's full potential. That is a super solid budget and you will surely be able to put together something nice with it. Do you have a local Hifi shop? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allenh Posted February 26, 2016 Share Posted February 26, 2016 I'm looking to keep the grand total under $1500, just as I'm sure you've all seen by now I don't know the technical side of things to be confidently making these purchases because with my luck I'd put together a setup that either A. doesn't work or B. isn't living to it's full potential. Coming from a Crosley to a $1500 system I think I'd do it in smaller steps and learn along the way. That way at least you'll learn what good should sound like rather than spending $1500 and risking it sounding crap. Go the used route first, there are a some simple basic standard bits of hifi that will make up a perfectly good system to get you started like a Pioneer PL12D or a Dual 505 and a Nad 3020 or a Pioneer A300 and some half decent passive bookshelf speakers as an example and there are a lot of others. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VinylGyroid Posted February 26, 2016 Author Share Posted February 26, 2016 That is a super solid budget and you will surely be able to put together something nice with it. Do you have a local Hifi shop? I'm actually not sure, I'll look into that! Coming from a Crosley to a $1500 system I think I'd do it in smaller steps and learn along the way. That way at least you'll learn what good should sound like rather than spending $1500 and risking it sounding crap. Exactly what I'm afraid of, I want to get the gist of how it all works before I go dropping stacks on stuff that won't sound good or just isn't necessary. At the same time though, I want to do it right the first time around so I'm open to spending a little bit more over time to do that (but within reason of course). Again I apologize for being so uninformed but I really appreciate all of you guys helping! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajxd Posted February 26, 2016 Share Posted February 26, 2016 Seriously. $1500 can get you some great gear. I usually tell my friends to invest at least $1k... but adding $500 on top of that? Get some goods man! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slinch Posted February 26, 2016 Share Posted February 26, 2016 How cool are you with buying anything second hand? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VinylGyroid Posted February 26, 2016 Author Share Posted February 26, 2016 Seriously. $1500 can get you some great gear. I usually tell my friends to invest at least $1k... but adding $500 on top of that? Get some goods man! How much I spend won't matter if I don't know exactly what I'm buying and end up with a setup that sounds like trash though which is exactly why I consult you guys here before I do anything, so thanks for all of the help! I'm going to spend more time researching integrated amp options but as far as the speakers, I've been eyeing those Audio Engine P4's and the Wharfedale Diamonds for a while. How cool are you with buying anything second hand? I bought my AKG Q701's second hand so if the price is right (which it was) and it's in acceptable condition (which these more than are), I don't mind it at all! That's more than likely what I'll end up doing when for most of the setup. Also, unrelated but props on your signature gif. Daisy Ridley is a goddess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allenh Posted February 26, 2016 Share Posted February 26, 2016 Exactly what I'm afraid of, I want to get the gist of how it all works before I go dropping stacks on stuff that won't sound good or just isn't necessary. At the same time though, I want to do it right the first time around so I'm open to spending a little bit more over time to do that (but within reason of course). I'll guarantee you no one here did it right first time unless a huge amount of luck was involved and the upgrade path is all part of the process Research and experience are not the same things so you need a certain amount of experience to draw on before the research starts to mean anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vinyl addict Posted February 26, 2016 Share Posted February 26, 2016 I'll step up and say the Denon is a solid budget unit, nothing wrong with an auto table. I always manually drop the arm, but I'm not always around when the LP is over. I've had mine for 2+ years without a single issue. I bypass the internal preamp and use a Schiit Mani. Throw a respectable budget cart on there and you are good to go. Leaps and bounds above your Crosley. Before that I had a tried and true Technics. With that being said...if you truly have a $1500 budget, you can find something better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smwalsh6 Posted February 26, 2016 Share Posted February 26, 2016 If I was starting with 1500 right now- Marantz PM-5005 (as mentioned) ProJect RPM 1 Monitor Audio Bronze 2 Yup Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajxd Posted February 26, 2016 Share Posted February 26, 2016 Oof. That'd be a nice setup. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kannibal Posted February 26, 2016 Share Posted February 26, 2016 Let's rename this thread the $1500 challenge. We'll see who can make the most of the money, right now. Items must be currently available for a set price and available to the public. No auctions or private sales. Local stores are fine, but items and prices must be posted online. Takers? Smwalsh6's suggestion is solid, but can we do better? And to think I rolled my eyes and thought "not another one of these threads," when I saw the title. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freki Posted February 26, 2016 Share Posted February 26, 2016 (Obligatory note that record cleaning/maintenance supplies should be included in OP's budget.) VinylGyroid 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sidney Crosley Posted February 26, 2016 Share Posted February 26, 2016 Sounds like a challenge. Since I'm more of a headphones person, I will do a headphone-focused setup. Project Debut Carbon DC - Open box @ Musician's Friend $350 Hagerman Bugle 2 Phono Preamp - $189 Schiit Lyr 2 - $450 AKG K7XX - $200 or Hifiman HE 400S $300 With $200-300 to spend on cables, cleaning supplies, possibly an acrylic platter (and/or replace the Debut Carbon with an Esprit for $200 more); or to include digital, adding a Schiit Modi 2 and Schiit SYS (to switch between turntable and digital) for $99 and $49 respectively. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allenh Posted February 26, 2016 Share Posted February 26, 2016 Just to be different then Sota Moonbeam $800 Musical Fidelity V90LPS $229 Cambridge Audio Azur 351A $379 Kef Q100B $299 (Amazon) A little over budget but where's the fun in staying in budget and for a bit more I'd go for a bigger Cambridge amplifier Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slinch Posted February 26, 2016 Share Posted February 26, 2016 Here's what I'd do: Rega RP1 - $359 (demo model) Acrylic mat - $25 Cambridge Audio 551P - $139 NAD C352 - $325 (second hand) Wharfedale Denton 80th Anniv. - $499 Speaker stands - $46 Interconnects and speaker cables - $60-$80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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