MLB Discussion

[mediocore]

my dad sent me an e-mail today about unbreakable records, just shootin the shit. here's what his list is (#1 would be hardest to break, 9 would be "easiest"):

9) Hack Wilson's - 191 RBIs in a single season

8) Eric Gagne's - 84 straight saves

7) Joe DiMaggio's - 56 game hitting streak

6) N.Y. Yankees - 5 straight World Series Wins

5) Ricky Henderson's - 1,406 career steals

4) Cal Ripken Jr's - 2,632 straight games played

3) Pete Rose's - 4,256 career hits

2) Nolan Ryan's - 5,714 career Ks

1) Cy Young's - 522 career wins

here's my list of unbreakable records:

9. Ricky Henderson - 1,406 career steals (the way the game is played today, this won't fall. but if the game evolves again toward speed, somebody could... give it a run)

8. N.Y. Yankees - 5 straight World Series Wins (free agency should make this impossible)

7. Tris Speaker - 449 career outfield assists

6. Sam Crawford - 309 career triples

5. Ty Cobb - .366 career batting average

5. a) Nap Lajoie- .427 batting average in 1901 (somebody will bat .400 again, but nobody will ever touch this one)

4. Cal Ripken, Jr. - 2,632 straight games played

3. Nolan Ryan - 5,714 career Ks

2. Walter Johnson - 110 career shut outs

2. a) Cy Young - 522 career wins

1. Don Larsen's perfect game - you can't beat perfection.

and just a little extra i came up with... here's a list of records most people consider "untouchable" but i think will eventually be matched/broken (in no particular order):

* Nolan Ryan - 7 career no-hitters

* Johnny Vander Meer - back-to-back no-hitters

* Orel Hershiser - 59 consecutive scoreless innings

* Rickey Henderson - 130 stolen bases in one season

* Carl Yastrzemski will not be the last player to ever win the triple crown

* Mark McGwire - 49 home runs as a rookie

* Babe Ruth - 177 runs scored in one season

* Walt Dropo & Matt Diaz - hits in 12 consecutive at bats

* Lou Gehrig - 23 career grand slams

thoughts?

I wouldn't consider Don Larsen's perfect game some sort of untouchable record. Sure, it can't be broken. But it'll probably be matched one day, which is the same difference.

And I think you can throw out a lot of the older records. Cy Young's 511 wins will never be broken; but then again, it's because the game's changed to the point where pitchers aren't starting 50+ games per year. (He also has the all-time record for losses. Just shows how many decisions old-time pitchers got before bullpens, etc.) Same deal with CG, SHO, 3B, etc.

Looking at purely modern records, I'd go with (in no order):

- Henderson's single season/all-time SB records

- Bonds' single season BB record (232 is just absurd)

- Williams' career .482 OBP

- Ryan's 5,714 career SO

- Hoffman's 591+ career SV (maybe not "untouchable," but it'll be a LONG time before anyone comes close)

- Ichiro's 225 1B in a single season (225 hits is a lot for anyone; 225 1B is even crazier)

- Ruth's single season 119 XBH

There's a bunch more that'll be tough as all hell to break too (anything with BA; Rose's hits record; Wilson's RBI record; single season SO; etc.).

[danthemjfan23]

in regards to vander meer's no hitters, i specifically said "matched/broken" not just broken. mark buehrle almost did it last season, taking a no-no into the 6th (or was it the 7th??) the game after pitching his perfecto. it will eventually happen again. i agree, though. nobody will ever do 3 in a row.

but how can you just totally disregard CG, SHO, 3B? just because the emphasis was placed on different aspects of the game in the early part of the century doesn't mean that it was a different sport. it's not like i said "duffy's single season record of a .440 batting average in 1894" because that was not part of the 'modern era.' if baseball, itself, has made a distinction between old and new, then who are you and/or i to say "yeah, but..."?

the records you posted are all great ones, no doubt. i think it's funny that you said it'll be a LONG time before anyone comes close to hoffman's record, though. mariano has 526. hoffman's first season was '93, while rivera's was '95. 591 - 526 = 65, which is EASILY done in 2 seasons for rivera with the yankees. in all likelihood, he'll be closing (no pun intended) the gap between he and hoffman the next year or two while hoffman is playing for a lesser brewers team. then he'll probably pitch a couple years after hoffman retires and grab the record for himself.

back to the changes in baseball, though... steals have gone in and out of style throughout baseball history. in the late 70s/80s they were huge. then, as the steroids era started developing, managers saw less reward and more risk by having a player steal. why try to move a man from first to second by stealing when the man at the plate can just knock the ball over the wall and score him from first anyway?

now that steroids testing is actually pretty legit, i think we're going to start to see a seismic shift in the way managers approach offensive strategy. steals will become a bigger part of the game than they have been in the last 20 years because teams will need to manufacture more runs than before. 130 steals is an absurd number, no doubt. but i think one person can have a monster year eventually and do it. i'm not really convinced that any single season record is "untouchable" because all it takes is one fluke of a season to be broken.

to me, the career/longevity records are MUCH harder to break. you have to be consistently incredible to even think about numbers like 1,406 career steals. fucking think about that for a second... that's 14 seasons of 100 steals, and you're STILL not there. 75 steals a season would take you 18.75 seasons to break it. those numbers are almost not fathomable.

[mediocore]

My bad with the Saves record. I think I glanced right over Rivera's name when I was looking at the all-time leaders. Rivera will more than likely overtake Hoffman before his career's over, at which point RIVERA'S record will stand for awhile.

And back to Wins/Losses/CG/SHO/3B/etc.: those records will, in all likelihood, NEVER be broken. In fact, they'll never even be approached. It's not fun to talk about records that have a virtually 0% chance of ever being challenged.

That's not to say I'm completely discounting what guys like Cy Young did; it's just his career started in the 1890s and so much changed in baseball just 20 years from then, let alone 120 years from then. Including him in the discussion might as well include Duffy's .440 BA -- Young racked up over half of his career wins before 1900. 3B are the same way... smaller ballparks have greatly hindered a player's propensity to hit them, which is why a lot of people see 3B as being the most exciting play in baseball.

The SHO record should get more respect, and that's my fault. It'll never be touched, and, to me, it's a much more impressive record than Wins or CG, for example.

The SB records could be challenged as, like you said, the game tends to ebb and flow in terms of its value on speed. However, I think the days of a 130 SB season are long behind us. With all the statistics available today, it just doesn't seem like managers are going to let someone run all that often. SB aren't thought to have a positive value unless the guy stealing the bases is successful over 85% of the time (I forget the exact number; my books are in boxes since I'm moving). Even during Henderson's record setting year, he was below that number (76%; his career mark is around 81%). I don't think managers will give the green light as often, seeing as how running into outs have a profound impact on a team's run scoring ability. Teams seem to be more selective when calling for a SB.

[flood]

i doubt henderson's record will ever fall... he was literally an offensive perfect storm.

1) he was ridiculously fast

2) unlike most notrious base stealers... he was also ridiculously powerful as a hitter (doesn't he own the "most leadoff homeruns" mark by a HUGE margin also?

3) he not only hit for power, but for average

4) he had a great eye, and walked alot.

5) he pretty much stole second, and third every damn time he reached base.

6) the wear and tear of playing every day, and always sliding had almost no effect on him and he refused to ever retire.

[flood]

"why are yankees tickets so expensive"

i went on stubhub to look at possibly traveling to a few games this year.

yankees vs white sox in nyc - $16

yankees vs white sox in chi - $58

same thing over and over again.... way to scam on the ny fans assholes!

[travis]

FUCK! Kendry Morales signed with Scott Boras.

This makes it much more unlikely that the Angels will be able to resign him.

[dynamitekid]

"why are yankees tickets so expensive"

i went on stubhub to look at possibly traveling to a few games this year.

yankees vs white sox in nyc - $16

yankees vs white sox in chi - $58

same thing over and over again.... way to scam on the ny fans assholes!

Just imagine how local fans feel...

[dynamitekid]

FUCK! Kendry Morales signed with Scott Boras.

This makes it much more unlikely that the Angels will be able to resign him.

lol

[¯\_(ツ)_/¯]

"why are yankees tickets so expensive"

i went on stubhub to look at possibly traveling to a few games this year.

yankees vs white sox in nyc - $16

yankees vs white sox in chi - $58

same thing over and over again.... way to scam on the ny fans assholes!

where are those seats? are the comparible?

[flood]

yeah in most cases they were comparible you had the cheapest being upperdeck or bleachers... its pretty much the case for any yankee away game...

[danthemjfan23]

flood, it's because everybody in chicago (or any city) wants to see the yankees when they come to town. in new york, you have 81 chances to catch the yankees. in chicago, you only have 3 or 4. with the demand so high they can charge basically anything they want. it's not just yankee games with the raised ticket prices. the white sox actually have a tier level system for ticket prices (as do the cubs, as do a lot of other teams, i'm sure) based on the opponent.

The 5 different levels of games (and the cheapest ticket you can buy to get in) are:

Mondays - $10

Regular - $20

Prime (i think Angels, Twins, Tigers, some interleague) - $24

Premier (i think Yankees, Red Sox, Dodgers, Cardinals) - $34

Cubs - $35

it's pretty stupid as a fan, but from the business aspect it totally makes sense.

[dynamitekid]

I think pretty much every team does that.

[sgoodcore]

Back to the records, I think Gehrig's record can be broken. Manny has 21 and A-Roid has 18. I think if Manny doesn't break it, A-Roid will.

I also think Orel's record will one day be broken.

I severely doubt most career pitching records ever have a chance of being approached given how pitchers are handled in the current game.

( I don't care about steroids, I just like calling him A-Roid )

[dynamitekid]

I think Gagne's consecutive save record is pretty safe. And its going to be tough for someone to break Orel's record. It would take a guy like Joba Chamberlin 10 starts to match it.

[selfreliable]

The closest anyone came to Gagne is Lidge in 08. His perfect season was followed up by a disatrous season. Closing is too tough to rattle off 80 saves without blowing one (even if Gagne did blow one in the allstar game in the middle of his streak). I think the Bulldogs record will fall one day. It will be a while, but I can see that getting broken someday. As a side note, with espn doing beat the streak for Joe's hitting, they should do something to beat Orels streak as well. Have to keep picking pitchers to go scoreless that long.

[dynamitekid]

Tigers signed Damon for $8 million

[soysquad]

Tigers signed Damon for $8 million

I like it, I think it's a good fit.

[rockstar71888]

I was hoping Atlanta would get him. The surprising thing about Damon is that the second highest offer on the table was from Tampa Bay. They're already $10 million over what they spent last year, and have outfielders out the yin-yang. That's the kind of free agent shopping that got them stuck with that dud Burrell.

[tomoleksy]

Ozzie Guillen has a twitter account, it's as amazing as it sounds.

https://twitter.com/ozzieguillen

[soysquad]

Ozzie Guillen has a twitter account, it's as amazing as it sounds.

https://twitter.com/ozzieguillen

Haha, that's great. Is it actually him?

[tomoleksy]

Supposedly it's legit. There are reports that the White Sox administration isn't happy about it.

[travis]

If this guy is allowed to speak to the public any time he feels like it then its only a matter of time before he is in some deep shit for saying something he shouldnt.

Cant stand him personally, but Im sure he will be entertaining to follow on Twitter.

[selfreliable]

How can you not like Ozzie? He has done lots for the sox, has respect of all his players and was a hell of a player himself. Sure he shoots his mouth off, but he is honest and doesnt hide from people. Calling out his players may piss people off, but it also gets the best out of them, and if it doesnt, they are gone.

[travis]

How can you not like Ozzie? He has done lots for the sox, has respect of all his players and was a hell of a player himself. Sure he shoots his mouth off, but he is honest and doesnt hide from people. Calling out his players may piss people off, but it also gets the best out of them, and if it doesnt, they are gone.

I just dont like him. He was a good player, I just dont like him as a Manager. Im not a Sox fan tho.

Im partial to Scioscia anyways who I think is the best Manager in the game right now. He pretty much the exact opposite of Guillen.

With all the shit that the Angels dealt with last year and to still win the division and sweep the BoSox in the first round was quite an accomplishment. They got whooped by NYY...but then pretty much everyone else did too.

[flood]

scioscia is the best current manager in baseball, and i really dislike the angels.