MLB Discussion

[thebiglebowski]

Someone tell that lady that Jesus had long hair

[Guest]

El. Oh. El.

[travis]

Trout finally got enough ABs last night to start qualifying for the league leaders in stats. He's 2nd in the AL in average, 5th in OPS and first in steals. Not too bad for a 20 year old. The kid is a stat machine, he was 4-4 with 2 doubles, a BB and 4 runs last night. Fantasy players must love him.

[whoshotthefrog]

Trout finally got enough ABs last night to start qualifying for the league leaders in stats. He's 2nd in the AL in average, 5th in OPS and first in steals. Not too bad for a 20 year old. The kid is a stat machine, he was 4-4 with 2 doubles, a BB and 4 runs last night. Fantasy players must love him.

If I had to vote for an American League MVP right now I would give it to Trout. He is literally carrying that team on his back. As he goes the team goes. I know Trumbo should get a lot of credit too for the turn around of the Angels from their dismal start but in my opinion Trout is the main reason why they are only 5 games back.

[thebiglebowski]

If I had to vote for an American League MVP right now I would give it to Trout. He is literally carrying that team on his back. As he goes the team goes. I know Trumbo should get a lot of credit too for the turn around of the Angels from their dismal start but in my opinion Trout is the main reason why they are only 5 games back.

Let's not get ahead of ourselves here. He is comparable to Hamilton in runs and average, but getting crushed in homers and RBIs. He blows Hamilton away in steals, but that has historically been not valued nearly as much as the power numbers for MVP voting.

[thebiglebowski]

How much longer can Big Papi keep it up? I thought he was finished 3 years ago.

[selfreliable]

They also will look at the fact that the Angels were terrible, I mean, wretched early on, and were preseason favorites to win it all. Whether it is Trout that turned it around, his stats and his timing make it look like he righted the ship, which will go a long way for the voters.

[whoshotthefrog]

Let's not get ahead of ourselves here. He is comparable to Hamilton in runs and average, but getting crushed in homers and RBIs. He blows Hamilton away in steals, but that has historically been not valued nearly as much as the power numbers for MVP voting.

I understand your point about Hamilton but even when he was slumping and dealing with his illness the Rangers were still able to compensate for his loss with the rest of the studs in that lineup picking up the slack. I just see Trout as being the catalyst for the Angels. It's only June so there is still plenty of time for anyone to be the front runner for the MVP.

[travis]

I think Hamilton should win the AL MVP if the season ended today but I think Trout should be second in that race. Still lots of time to go and Hamilton will for sure hit more HRs than Trout. I think Trout is more important to his team than Hamilton is though and he probably covers more ground in the OF as well. Trout is still a pretty raw talent on defense so he's only going to get better.

The Angels could not have started any worse this season. I think everyone knew they were just playing the wrong guys though. Well that and Pujols was off to the worst start of his career. The only guy who has been hitting since the season started is Trumbo. He carried this team by himself until Trout came up. The best things that happened to the Angels this year was the release of Abreu and the injury to Wells (who I hear might also get released when he gets off the DL) which allowed them to call up Trout. Everyone knows Abreu and Wells suck and we all knew Trout has insane upside and once they brought him up he got it going very quickly and hasnt stopped since. This is also right when Pujols got going which I dont think is a coincidence. He suddenly had someone on base nearly every time he came up and that someone was usually in scoring position when Pujols came to bat. Trout is going to lead the league in steals by a mile this year. He will probably steal about 50+ bases. Im still waiting for some dumb ass pitcher to go into the wind-up with Trout on 3rd so he can swipe home.

Trout, Trumbo, Weaver and Frieri all better be on the goddamn all-star team. Wilson could make a very strong case to be on the team as well. Im just glad the Angels are finally playing up to their potential though. It would be nice if Texas lost once in a while.

[thebiglebowski]

If you guys want to argue about the dumb prejudices that go into determining MVP then yeah, Trout has a case (team has to make the playoffs, almost never goes to a pitcher, doesn't value all aspects of the game equally).

Right now, Hamilton has a big lead on Trout. They heavily favor average, homers, and RBIs. Plus Hamilton plays on the best team in baseball. That is pretty much the equation for predicting an MVP.

[thebiglebowski]

Does Frieri even qualify? Not sure how the league change effects him. If not this year, maybe next.

[whoshotthefrog]

If you have ESPN Insider here is Keith Law's article about Mike Trout's MVP chances.

http://insider.espn....l-mvp-candidate

Mike Trout -- MVP candidate?

With just over half the season left to play, Mike Trout looks like the odds-on favorite to win the American League Rookie of the Year award. But could he pull a Fred Lynn and win the AL MVP award as well? More importantly, should he?

I have heard the argument that the Angels' season turned around when Trout was recalled, which is so much hogwash. That's the application of a concept that applies to other sports -- that one player can dramatically change a team's fortunes -- to baseball, where the impact of one player on a team's record, even a very good player, is quite limited. The best players in baseball each year are typically worth about 9 wins above a replacement-level player; according to Fangraphs, the last position player to be worth 10 WAR in a single year was Barry Bonds in 2004 (a year in which he was intentionally walked 120 times). So if we assume that Mike Trout is the best player in baseball and that he was replacing a replacement-level player, he might have added just less than three wins to the Angels' total over the 47 games he has played. Their turnaround has been a team turnaround, not just the infusion of a single player.

[+] Enlarge

Hulton Archive/Getty ImagesAn MVP for Trout would allow him to match Fred Lynn as a rookie pulling off the double.

So the argument for Trout as MVP shouldn't be built around the Angels' record with or without him because it doesn't have to be built on such a fairy tale story. Trout's own performance to date is enough justification to at least put him among the top 3-4 candidates in the league.

Trout's raw stat line heading into the weekend series against the Dodgers is impressive on its own -- .333/.397/.532 with a league-leading 19 stolen bases in just 22 attempts -- and while the batting average may not remain as high, he's a very disciplined hitter and his walk rate is likely to rise even as his BABIP (currently at .395) regresses. Metrics demonstrating his overall value tell an even more amazing story. I tend to prefer Fangraphs' version of Wins Above Replacement, and Trout fares extremely well there despite playing in fewer games than the players surrounding him on the leaderboard, ranking second in the league so far, just 0.1 wins (the equivalent of about 2 runs produced/saved) behind league leader Josh Hamilton. If you prefer Baseball-Reference's flavor, Trout ranks second in the league in WAR behind only Brett Lawrie, who benefits there from an insane (and obviously inaccurate) defensive rating that seems to think he's Brooks Robinson. The rate stat wOBA, which doesn't consider playing time, has Trout fifth in the American League, behind Hamilton again along with three players who offer no defensive value in Paul Konerko, Mark Trumbo, and David Ortiz.

(An interesting side note on Trumbo: While he continues to hit for crazy power, with 10 homers in the last 30 days, he walked just 5 times unintentionally in that same span, covering 120 PA, a sign that perhaps his abnormally high walk rate in the season's first six weeks may have been an aberration.)

If Trout continues to produce value at the rate he's shown so far this year, he could easily end up the most valuable player in the American League -- especially if he continues to get the majority of starts in center field.

It's possible, even likely, that Trout will hit a rough patch, perhaps even an extended one, at some point before the year is out, but one major point in his favor is that he hasn't shown any clear weaknesses at the plate. His plate discipline has always been strong, both in his ability to distinguish balls from strikes and in his recognition of different pitches. He doesn't swing as often as most players, regardless of age, but when he does swing, he makes contact at very high rates -- especially when he deigns to swing at a pitch outside of the strike zone. Even the slider low and away, the bugbear of many good big league hitters, hasn't fazed him; he's shown the ability to make a high degree of contact with that pitch, even if it's just to foul it off and extend the at-bat. He's even held his own against higher velocity, seeing 43 pitches of 95 mph or better, putting 10 in play, 5 of those for hits, and swinging and missing just twice, according to Bloomberg Sports. If he has a significant flaw as a hitter, MLB pitchers haven't found it yet.

If Trout continues to produce value at the rate he's shown so far this year, he could easily end up the most valuable player in the American League -- especially if he continues to get the majority of starts in center field. The Angels would probably have to stay in the race to keep his candidacy strong among voters who mistakenly believe the MVP must come from a contender, but that's largely out of Trout's control. He could also face a disadvantage as a rookie, or as a player who wasn't on the big league roster until the very end of April, neither of which is rational but both of which could easily swing a couple of votes.

But right now it looks like Trout will at least do his part to give rational voters good reason to put him near or even at the top of their ballots.

[travis]

If you guys want to argue about the dumb prejudices that go into determining MVP then yeah, Trout has a case (team has to make the playoffs, almost never goes to a pitcher, doesn't value all aspects of the game equally).

Right now, Hamilton has a big lead on Trout. They heavily favor average, homers, and RBIs. Plus Hamilton plays on the best team in baseball. That is pretty much the equation for predicting an MVP.

Yea I dont think Trout is the MVP this year but I think in the near future he could win multiple MVPs.

I know Im biased due to the fact that I watch just about every game he plays and Im an Angels fan but I dont think Ive seen anyone like this kid since Griffey, he's absolutely unreal.

Does Frieri even qualify? Not sure how the league change effects him. If not this year, maybe next.

Yea not really sure how that works but he should be on the all star team, he's been incredible this year. He's the main thing that helped turn the bullpen around for the Angels. Aside from a few too many walks he's been just about perfect.

[travis]

Thanks for posting that Trout article! I dont have insider so i cant see a lot of stuff on the ESPN site.

[Guest]

do you think we could get away with an Insider thread? every once in a while there are articles id love to read, but just not enough to warrant paying for a subscription.

[Guest]

im sad to see youk go. hes been a favorite of many sox fans for a long time, which certainly isnt surprising when he was involved in both championships.

they were talking about his numbers on the radio tonight, and recognizing how clutch he was for so many years. late games, runners on, 2 outs, etc. just about everything around a .300 average.

i still remember being at the hangar one afternoon, when he stepped up- clean shaven in his red sox debut, and went yard. i think that was the first time i ever noticed the team give the silent treatment to a players first homer.

alas, it was certainly his time. boston wore him out mentally, and in turn took its toll on his physical abilities. and when middlebrooks is performing the way he is, its simply a no-brainer who needs to be in the lineup.

in 41 games, hes got 23 runs, 47 hits, 10 doubles, 9 homers, 34 rbis, .326 avg, .365 obp, .583 slugging, and .949 ops

someone on espn said that the last time a rookie had numbers like this... albert pujols.

[selfreliable]

Ry, you gotta stop drinking the Redsox Kool-Aid. Youk has a career .286 average, not that close to .300 when it comes to baseball stats. As far as the last time a rookie had those numbers, look no further than.....2012 where Trout is putting up either equal or better numbers out of the leadoff spot, not to mention 21 steals to middlebrooks 2. Second coming of Albert Pujols? I think not.

[Guest]

not his career average. his average in such clutch situations. i believe it was with 2 outs and men on second, his average was near .400.

and so youll get off...

edit: someone on espn said that the last time a rookie had numbers like this through so many games... albert pujols.

[selfreliable]

Trout has played in three more games than Middlebrooks. So then you would only have to look three days ago for a rookie to have these numbers.

[Guest]

So trout could be Griffey but middlebrooks can't be pujols?

[travis]

I think people are more impressed by Trout cause the kid can literally do everything on a baseball field and he's only 20. He's a pretty complete player already and he cant even legally drink.

20 year old kids just dont put up numbers like Trout is putting up this year and the one's that have are all in the HOF. Im sure if you asked the 30 GMs which player they would take to start a team with all 30 of them would say Trout.

Not taking anything away from Middlebrooks cause the guy is putting up some great numbers this year but I think Trout is quite a bit ahead of him still considering he's putting up better numbers and is 3 years younger and plays CF. I think Trout is going to win the ROY and I think he's also going to get some MVP votes if he keeps this up.

[selfreliable]

The fact that you are even thinking that Middlebrooks can be the next Pujols shows you are believing everything the sox media tells you. Everyone knew Pujols was going to be great. They rushed him to the majors. No one though Middlebrooks was going to be that good. Hell, they were thinking of still demoting him when Youk was supposed to be back. Everyone knows he is playing above his head. He might be a good player, but to call him the next Pujols after 50 games if absurd. Also Pujols had some base stealing ability while Middlebrooks has stolen twice and got caught once. He also cant play as many positions as Albert could in his first years.

All I was saying is that the person was wrong saying that Middlebrooks is putting up the best numbers as a rookie since Pujols since Trout is doing better this same season. Trout isnt even close to being what Pujols was.

[travis]

Trout has the highest WAR in the AL right now. Thats a counting stat, not a rate stat which is pretty insane considering he's had about a month less of playing time then most other playerss.

http://www.fangraphs...age=0&players=0

[noodle]

trumbo.

[noodle]

I think people are more impressed by Trout cause the kid can literally do everything on a baseball field and he's only 20. He's a pretty complete player already and he cant even legally drink, except for Canada.

fixed.

clown statement?