Thrice55 Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 Damn you! I was hoping you meant effective immediately!!!! Poo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PC Music Posted October 28, 2012 Share Posted October 28, 2012 Harden trade to the Rockets was completely unexpected. I always said they couldn't afford to keep Durant, Westbrook, Ibaka and Harden, but I never expected a move to happen before they had one more season to try and win a title. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zick Posted October 28, 2012 Share Posted October 28, 2012 Harden trade to the Rockets was completely unexpected. I always said they couldn't afford to keep Durant, Westbrook, Ibaka and Harden, but I never expected a move to happen before they had one more season to try and win a title. I just looked his contract up 2 hours ago to see if it was possible for OKC to extend him this season. I figured they would trade him, but not this soon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thrice55 Posted October 28, 2012 Share Posted October 28, 2012 I just looked his contract up 2 hours ago to see if it was possible for OKC to extend him this season. I figured they would trade him, but not this soon They were stupid to not just dump Perkins contract on a east team desperate for a center. I don't understand why they kept Perkins and not Harden, Harden is much more of an asset to that team as Perkins... and not a mental midget like Perkins either. Oh well, less competition in the West for my Spurs. Even though that probably moves the Rocket up to my 6 or 7 seed instead of 8, fuck it... Bring on the West! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harryq Posted October 28, 2012 Share Posted October 28, 2012 yay! this should help the lakers, and it should help me not have to see harden's beard anymore. but yeah, I was surprised that they did this when they did, and I think this gives houston the most overrated backcourt in the league (assuming it's lin and harden starting). as for perkins v. harden, I don't think the thunder could have afforded to keep either of them long term. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swisherprice Posted October 29, 2012 Share Posted October 29, 2012 Jeremy Lin, James Harden, Terrence Jones, Patrick Patterson, and Omer Asik, Rockets could make a good run in the West. However I think even without Harden, OKC picks up a great trade with Jeremy Lamb, and they will be fighting LAL for the West. Also, I'm excited to see how the Hornets fair this year. Anthony Davis is looking really good, I'm thinking they might make it in to the playoffs, but lose first round. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PC Music Posted October 29, 2012 Share Posted October 29, 2012 I can't say I agree with either point there. The Rockets are Role Players: The Team. They will win some games and be competitive, but until they finally land that start Morey has been trying so hard to get I don't think they'll really go anywhere. I guess you might argue Harden is that person, but I don't think he'll be as effective as the number 1 as opposed to number 3 option. As for the Thunder, Lamb might be really good sometime, but as far as this year he won't have the chance to have a Kyrie Irving type season since they're not expecting him to be a franchise player. Obviously Martin is the centerpiece of the trade, but he's a pretty big chucker and between he and Durant and Westbook, I dunno if there's enough shots for Martin to play his game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harryq Posted October 29, 2012 Share Posted October 29, 2012 As for the Thunder, Lamb might be really good sometime, but as far as this year he won't have the chance to have a Kyrie Irving type season since they're not expecting him to be a franchise player. Obviously Martin is the centerpiece of the trade, but he's a pretty big chucker and between he and Durant and Westbook, I dunno if there's enough shots for Martin to play his game. martin is the centerpiece of the trade? I figured he was a "please take his salary off our hands"/"expiring contract" inclusion, while the draft picks, maybe lamb, and future cap flexibility were the main things OKC gets back I wouldn't be surprised if martin is shipped out by the trade deadline for nothing little more than a trade exception Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PC Music Posted October 29, 2012 Share Posted October 29, 2012 A 20 point per game scorer isn't going to be some throwaway piece in a trade. Yeah, they're trying to build for the future with the draft picks and Lamb but fact is Martin is the only known quantity at this point. Even Lamb was at the lower end of the lottery in what wasn't an especially deep draft to begin with, so he's no slam dunk, and again unless you're a top draft pick rookies don't usually play a huge role, especially on a title contender. Martin is gonna slide into Harden's role as sixth man at least to start the year and is gonna get significant minutes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thrice55 Posted October 29, 2012 Share Posted October 29, 2012 A 20 point per game scorer isn't going to be some throwaway piece in a trade. Yeah, they're trying to build for the future with the draft picks and Lamb but fact is Martin is the only known quantity at this point. Even Lamb was at the lower end of the lottery in what wasn't an especially deep draft to begin with, so he's no slam dunk, and again unless you're a top draft pick rookies don't usually play a huge role, especially on a title contender. Martin is gonna slide into Harden's role as sixth man at least to start the year and is gonna get significant minutes. On one end of the spectrum I agree with you, but on the other I couldn't disagree more. You're not only looking for the points you'll be missing from harden, you're looking for D, mentality, integrity and everything else that went along with harden out of Martin. But you won't get a damn thing from him except the points... He doesn't play d, even though he would be decent if he tried to with his long arms and quickness. But he's also a mental midget that I don't believe is capable of bringing leadership to the 2nd team. All I know as a spurs fan is that I sense a little panic in the air. No one to guard manu this year, and good luck to Westbrook stepping up his d game to guard Parker... Good riddance to the beard! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PC Music Posted October 29, 2012 Share Posted October 29, 2012 Oh, don't get me wrong. I don't think he'll actually be capable of filling the role, because like you said all he does is score (and not efficiently at that), that's just how they plan to use him. I don't see him on the bench too long, though, Sefolosha will will probably get moved down eventually. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harryq Posted October 29, 2012 Share Posted October 29, 2012 Sefolosha will will probably get moved down eventually. isn't sefolosha's defense more valuable than martin's offense though? and I'll admit that I'm not that familiar with kevin martin (who watched rockets games?), but he strikes me as "a rich man's allen iverson", and by that I mean that only a rich man who's desperate for a one-man offense (e.g., iverson) would pay kevin martin that much money. he's better than the usual expiring contract, but not a whole lot better (at least as far as a good team like OKC is concerned) besides, sam presti built this team through the draft, so it wouldn't surprise me if his plan is to continue building through the draft. they'll probably flip martin to some playoff-bubble team in a couple of months for a future first round pick and some cash and take their chances with lamb. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thrice55 Posted October 30, 2012 Share Posted October 30, 2012 isn't sefolosha's defense more valuable than martin's offense though? and I'll admit that I'm not that familiar with kevin martin (who watched rockets games?), but he strikes me as "a rich man's allen iverson", and by that I mean that only a rich man who's desperate for a one-man offense (e.g., iverson) would pay kevin martin that much money. he's better than the usual expiring contract, but not a whole lot better (at least as far as a good team like OKC is concerned) besides, sam presti built this team through the draft, so it wouldn't surprise me if his plan is to continue building through the draft. they'll probably flip martin to some playoff-bubble team in a couple of months for a future first round pick and some cash and take their chances with lamb. The only reason i think Sefolosha will hold his starting role is cause they already have 2 guys on that squad (Durant and Westbrook) that are gonna average close to 20 shots a game. So just by the stats... he won't have enough shot opportunities to be efficient enough at what he does. As Harryq said, i don't see them holding onto martin for much of this season. But someone earlier said that it was a money dump for OKC, which i don't understand. Martin was set to make like 12 Million this year to Hardens 6 Million....So at the same time, i say they'll trade him... but why wouldn't they of just done that with Harden? In my personal opinion i would say Harden has ten-fold the amount of trade value as Martin. So maybe they hold onto him... at this point i don't know what the hell Presti is doing... he sure as hell isn't trying to be like the spurs with what he just did... You don't trade away a vital part of your team to make cap room... you build your team accordingly and never have this problem in the first place. Or you have players like Tim Fucking Duncan who is willing to restructure a contract to hold onto piece of the puzzle... Greed is fucking good..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PC Music Posted October 30, 2012 Share Posted October 30, 2012 Did Duncan ever restructure his contract while he was 25 years old or just his latest contract when he was past his prime? Not trying to be snarky lol just wondering. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harryq Posted October 30, 2012 Share Posted October 30, 2012 Did Duncan ever restructure his contract while he was 25 years old or just his latest contract when he was past his prime? Not trying to be snarky lol just wondering. I don't think he did, but he also won a championship after season 2 (I want to put a smiley face here, but the spurs beat the t-wolves and the lakers in those playoffs, so I can't really be happy about that...) and signed his super big contract after winning his second ring and a more apt analogy would be "if durant is such a 'team player', he should have taken less money when he signed his deal" (and, to a lesser extent, same with westbrook). durant's gonna get his money one way or another (e.g., endorsement deals), but harden will probably need to make most of his money from his salary. I despise the miami heat, but if lebron, wade, and bosh could figure out a way to do their contracts and stay/get together, why couldn't durant/westbrook/ibaka/harden? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zick Posted October 30, 2012 Share Posted October 30, 2012 I think that because they all re-signed at different times it was difficult to coordinate something. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think they signed Westbrook, Durant and Ibaka all to max deals. They could have signed Harden to a max deal, or close to a max deal, but would have got fucked by the luxury tax. Since they want to consider themselves and small market team, they have to pretend that they can't afford that. I think they could have kept that nucleus and flipped Perkins to a mid level team in the East for a 1st round pick, and either draft a competent center or flip that pick for one. If they could have locked up Westbrook, Harden, Durant, Ibaka, Collison and Sefolosha, they would have been strong contenders to win the championship for the duration of those contracts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thrice55 Posted October 30, 2012 Share Posted October 30, 2012 I don't believe Duncan did ever restructure before this year. But however, he could of demanded a max contract from the Spurs in the first place or threatened to leave. But he is way to much of a team player to do so, instead he took a moderate contract and allowed the money to be split to everyone else and free agency. As for OKC, they could of easily figured something out to keep the pieces intact. You dump Perkins, Westbrook and Durant both restructure their contracts so the bulk of their salary is paid out on alternating years and squeeze in what you can and make harden feel like they're at least attempting to keep him around. To gain loyalty you have to show it first... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PC Music Posted October 30, 2012 Share Posted October 30, 2012 Duncan couldn't have gotten a max offer anywhere with his age and knees and it really made no sense for him to move, even less sense than Dirk moving (who also took less than max to free up cap space). Not saying I disagree with you, but I think OKC offered Harden a more than fair contract to show they have confidence in him and want him around. Was it 4mil less than max or something like that? The issue comes with Harden's valuation of himself. He sees himself as a max contract player. Maybe some foolish GM will actually pay him that, but I don't think he's worth that. Part of this trade was sending a message, I'm sure of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zick Posted October 30, 2012 Share Posted October 30, 2012 Harden turned down a 4yr/$52 million dollar contract, which is roughly $1.5 million off from a max deal each season. To me, that's more than fair. I think this is also near what LeBron/Wade/Bosh make, too, but it's probably not as backloaded as their deals Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harryq Posted October 30, 2012 Share Posted October 30, 2012 I don't believe Duncan did ever restructure before this year. But however, he could of demanded a max contract from the Spurs in the first place or threatened to leave. But he is way to much of a team player to do so, instead he took a moderate contract and allowed the money to be split to everyone else and free agency. As for OKC, they could of easily figured something out to keep the pieces intact. You dump Perkins, Westbrook and Durant both restructure their contracts so the bulk of their salary is paid out on alternating years and squeeze in what you can and make harden feel like they're at least attempting to keep him around. To gain loyalty you have to show it first... regarding duncan, he did sign a 3 year, $36 mill extension, so it's not like he took the vet minimum or anything, and he likely went with that deal because that's what boston gave garnett. and I don't think you can actually restructure deals in the NBA, nor could you have a contract that fluctuates year-by-year (I think the CBA specifies the %-increase per year). what OKC would have needed to do is have durant trust that the team would be worth keeping together and that the ownership wouldn't totally screw things up and then do a 5 year, $60 mill deal or something. perhaps that's too much to ask of a ~22 year old star athlete, but it would be a heck of a way to show your dedication to the team and to winning. also, I'm sure the players' association would get upset since other players would feel pressured to do similar contracts Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thrice55 Posted October 31, 2012 Share Posted October 31, 2012 regarding duncan, he did sign a 3 year, $36 mill extension, so it's not like he took the vet minimum or anything, and he likely went with that deal because that's what boston gave garnett. and I don't think you can actually restructure deals in the NBA, nor could you have a contract that fluctuates year-by-year (I think the CBA specifies the %-increase per year). what OKC would have needed to do is have durant trust that the team would be worth keeping together and that the ownership wouldn't totally screw things up and then do a 5 year, $60 mill deal or something. perhaps that's too much to ask of a ~22 year old star athlete, but it would be a heck of a way to show your dedication to the team and to winning. also, I'm sure the players' association would get upset since other players would feel pressured to do similar contracts Well I know in the offseason Tim Duncan did restructure his contract. And I wasn't talking about his current contract that he took a personal cut. I was speaking of his previous contract, and yes... 4-5 years ago Duncan could of easily gotten a max contract from a dismal East team. Not a doubt in my mind about that... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 31, 2012 Share Posted October 31, 2012 congratulations lebrooooonnn!!!!! congratulations lebrooooonnn!!!!! congratulations lebrooooonnn!!!!! congratulations lebrooooonnn!!!!! congratulations lebrooooonnn!!!!! congratulations lebrooooonnn!!!!! congratulations lebrooooonnn!!!!! congratulations lebrooooonnn!!!!! congratulations lebrooooonnn!!!!! congratulations lebrooooonnn!!!!! congratulations lebrooooonnn!!!!! congratulations lebrooooonnn!!!!! congratulations lebrooooonnn!!!!! congratulations lebrooooonnn!!!!! congratulations lebrooooonnn!!!!! congratulations lebrooooonnn!!!!! congratulations lebrooooonnn!!!!! congratulations lebrooooonnn!!!!! congratulations lebrooooonnn!!!!! congratulations lebrooooonnn!!!!! congratulations lebrooooonnn!!!!! congratulations lebrooooonnn!!!!! congratulations lebrooooonnn!!!!! congratulations lebrooooonnn!!!!! congratulations lebrooooonnn!!!!! congratulations lebrooooonnn!!!!! congratulations lebrooooonnn!!!!! congratulations lebrooooonnn!!!!! congratulations lebrooooonnn!!!!! congratulations lebrooooonnn!!!!! congratulations lebrooooonnn!!!!! congratulations lebrooooonnn!!!!! congratulations lebrooooonnn!!!!! congratulations lebrooooonnn!!!!! congratulations lebrooooonnn!!!!! congratulations lebrooooonnn!!!!! congratulations lebrooooonnn!!!!! congratulations lebrooooonnn!!!!! congratulations lebrooooonnn!!!!! congratulations lebrooooonnn!!!!! congratulations lebrooooonnn!!!!! congratulations lebrooooonnn!!!!! congratulations lebrooooonnn!!!!! congratulations lebrooooonnn!!!!! congratulations lebrooooonnn!!!!! congratulations lebrooooonnn!!!!! congratulations lebrooooonnn!!!!! congratulations lebrooooonnn!!!!! congratulations lebrooooonnn!!!!! congratulations lebrooooonnn!!!!! congratulations lebrooooonnn!!!!! congratulations lebrooooonnn!!!!! congratulations lebrooooonnn!!!!! congratulations lebrooooonnn!!!!! congratulations lebrooooonnn!!!!! congratulations lebrooooonnn!!!!! congratulations lebrooooonnn!!!!! congratulations lebrooooonnn!!!!! congratulations lebrooooonnn!!!!! congratulations lebrooooonnn!!!!! congratulations lebrooooonnn!!!!! congratulations lebrooooonnn!!!!! congratulations lebrooooonnn!!!!! congratulations lebrooooonnn!!!!! congratulations lebrooooonnn!!!!! congratulations lebrooooonnn!!!!! congratulations lebrooooonnn!!!!! congratulations lebrooooonnn!!!!! congratulations lebrooooonnn!!!!! congratulations lebrooooonnn!!!!! congratulations lebrooooonnn!!!!! congratulations lebrooooonnn!!!!! congratulations lebrooooonnn!!!!! congratulations lebrooooonnn!!!!! congratulations lebrooooonnn!!!!! congratulations lebrooooonnn!!!!! congratulations lebrooooonnn!!!!! congratulations lebrooooonnn!!!!! congratulations lebrooooonnn!!!!! congratulations lebrooooonnn!!!!! congratulations lebrooooonnn!!!!! congratulations lebrooooonnn!!!!! congratulations lebrooooonnn!!!!! congratulations lebrooooonnn!!!!! congratulations lebrooooonnn!!!!! congratulations lebrooooonnn!!!!! congratulations lebrooooonnn!!!!! congratulations lebrooooonnn!!!!! congratulations lebrooooonnn!!!!! congratulations lebrooooonnn!!!!! congratulations lebrooooonnn!!!!! congratulations lebrooooonnn!!!!! congratulations lebrooooonnn!!!!! congratulations lebrooooonnn!!!!! congratulations lebrooooonnn!!!!! congratulations lebrooooonnn!!!!! congratulations lebrooooonnn!!!!! congratulations lebrooooonnn!!!!! congratulations lebrooooonnn!!!!! congratulations lebrooooonnn!!!!! congratulations lebrooooonnn!!!!! congratulations lebrooooonnn!!!!! congratulations lebrooooonnn!!!!! congratulations lebrooooonnn!!!!! congratulations lebrooooonnn!!!!! congratulations lebrooooonnn!!!!! congratulations lebrooooonnn!!!!! congratulations lebrooooonnn!!!!! congratulations lebrooooonnn!!!!! congratulations lebrooooonnn!!!!! congratulations lebrooooonnn!!!!! congratulations lebrooooonnn!!!!! congratulations lebrooooonnn!!!!! congratulations lebrooooonnn!!!!! congratulations lebrooooonnn!!!!! congratulations lebrooooonnn!!!!! congratulations lebrooooonnn!!!!! congratulations lebrooooonnn!!!!! congratulations lebrooooonnn!!!!! congratulations lebrooooonnn!!!!! congratulations lebrooooonnn!!!!! congratulations lebrooooonnn!!!!! congratulations lebrooooonnn!!!!! congratulations lebrooooonnn!!!!! congratulations lebrooooonnn!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harryq Posted October 31, 2012 Share Posted October 31, 2012 Well I know in the offseason Tim Duncan did restructure his contract. And I wasn't talking about his current contract that he took a personal cut. I was speaking of his previous contract, and yes... 4-5 years ago Duncan could of easily gotten a max contract from a dismal East team. Not a doubt in my mind about that... his contract had just ended, at which point he signed a contract worth half as much per year ($10 mill) as he had been earning ($20 mill). and the contract he signed in 2003 (which lasted until 2010 and was probably extended another two years) was one of the five largest contracts in NBA history (in terms of total salary, not "per year"). but yes, he certainly could have demanded more from the spurs this past summer, threatened to explore free agency, and blackmailed the team into overpaying him, and I'm glad that he didn't. more players need to be loyal like him. http://www.basketbal...ml#all_salaries anyhoo, boston didn't look too bad against the heat tonight. rondo played fairly well, and hopefully barbosa can continue to score off the bench. as long as they can beat the heat and lose to the lakers in the finals, I'll be satisfied and speaking of the lakers, are they just toying with the dirk-less mavs right now? it seems like they're up 10, but the score says it's ~tied... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thrice55 Posted October 31, 2012 Share Posted October 31, 2012 his contract had just ended, at which point he signed a contract worth half as much per year ($10 mill) as he had been earning ($20 mill). and the contract he signed in 2003 (which lasted until 2010 and was probably extended another two years) was one of the five largest contracts in NBA history (in terms of total salary, not "per year"). but yes, he certainly could have demanded more from the spurs this past summer, threatened to explore free agency, and blackmailed the team into overpaying him, and I'm glad that he didn't. more players need to be loyal like him. http://www.basketbal...ml#all_salaries anyhoo, boston didn't look too bad against the heat tonight. rondo played fairly well, and hopefully barbosa can continue to score off the bench. as long as they can beat the heat and lose to the lakers in the finals, I'll be satisfied and speaking of the lakers, are they just toying with the dirk-less mavs right now? it seems like they're up 10, but the score says it's ~tied... Boston looked solid for sure. Collison is destroying Nash, who right now looks awful in his first game with the Lakers. Besides my hatred for both of these teams, i'm kinda enjoying watching a game that doesn't have the Spurs in it for once. Guess i'm just glad to have the NBA back in full swing. Also, i know it was against a Wall-less Wizards team... but the Cavs looked solid... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harryq Posted October 31, 2012 Share Posted October 31, 2012 and speaking of the lakers, are they just toying with the dirk-less mavs right now? it seems like they're up 10, but the score says it's ~tied... and just to be clear, the lakers looked a lot better in the first quarter than they have thus far in the second half... oof... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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