Do Record Labels Still Matter?

[kirbypuckett]

I just listened to a podcast from NPR on this subject and thought it'd make for good discussion. Here is a brief blog post about the topic as well as a link to the podcast.

http://www.npr.org/blogs/monitormix/2009/07/do_record_labels_still_matter.html

Do Record Labels Still Matter?

The other week, Bob Boilen, Stephen Thompson, Robin Hilton and I recorded a show about record labels. The idea was to come up with a few labels that held personal significance for each of us. None of us found the task difficult. From Harvest to Sub Pop to ECM, we played songs from the labels' rosters and discussed the process of discovering not just the bands, but also the worlds they inhabited. In other words, the labels acted as a gateway: into a scene, genre, aesthetic and even worldview.

Yet one thing we noted quite early on in the show is that there exists a huge generation gap between those who care about and know what label a band is on (or was on), and those who don't know and don't see that distinction as important. Personally, I'm in the former category, but I still have to ask: Do record labels matter?

I'll admit that there are a lot of current bands whose label affiliation for me is murky. Maybe my knowledge is lacking due to the sheer number of bands that exist today, and thus I can't keep track; maybe it's because bands release songs on their own or solely in the digital realm. But I also think that the concept of loyalty to labels seems to be dwindling. Whether that's the fault of the labels or the artists or even the audience, I could not say. That being said, if the label itself is established -- Matador, Merge, Jagjaguwar, Anti, Kill Rock Stars -- or has a strong and unique identity, like Ecstatic Peace, I feel fairly confident that I know at least some of the artists therein.

But I'm a whiz at band/label marriages from earlier eras. I mean, who doesn't know that Fugazi was on Dischord or that early Sonic Youth records and Husker Du came out on SST? The Pixies and Breeders were on 4AD, Felt and Marine Girls were on Cherry Red, and all of those amazing New Zealand bands came out on Flying Nun (The Bats, Tall Dwarfs and The Verlaines, to name but a few). Even outside of their sleeves, you can always recognize a Led Zeppelin or Neil Young record because of their labels' insignia on the vinyl.

At least for myself, it was the label that helped reveal an entire music scene, especially before I could just look things up on the Internet. Dischord showed me Washington, D.C.; Lookout unearthed San Francisco and the East Bay. And where I grew up, in a suburb of Seattle, it wasn't just Sub Pop, but also C/Z, PopLlama and Up, plus Estrus to the north in Bellingham and K to the south in Olympia. The entire landscape could be mapped in labels; they helped determine where you were and where everyone you wanted to meet was, as well.

So, are record labels still important to you? Do you know what labels your favorite bands are on or were on? Do you look to certain labels for good music? What labels defined a city, scene or sound for you? Finally, if you have any memories of following a label's output -- or growing up in a town without a label, with one label or full of labels -- please share.

Carrie Brownstein

[kurtz]

Labels still matter to me. There are plenty of labels that I continue to folllow and I'll check out any band that they sign or release a record for. It's still one of the main ways I discover new music.

And there are also plenty of labels that I know not to waste my time with any band that signs with them.

[Guest afsdan]

the parts about labels building communities are important and relevant still.

imagine if Hot Water Music/Less Than Jake/and more early No Idea bands had simply decided to self-release all those records.

[cosmonaut]

^ Good point.

I also think that certain labels are instrumental in developing a unique sound that bands working on their own might not. I'm thinking of the "Dischord sound" and the Hydra Head releases of the late '90s.

[sgoodcore]

I think they are still important but the dynamic is definitely changing. Labels are going to need to be partners with the bands not "people in charge" as much as they once were. Bands still need help getting started, getting to good distribution channels, etc. In that way labels are, at the very least, aggregators.

[flood]

on the really indie side of things yes.. otherwise once you're extremely established.. saying moving 250K units a release... you really don't need one.

[motorbike]

on the really indie side of things yes.. otherwise once you're extremely established.. saying moving 250K units a release... you really don't need one.

i agree with this to an extent. it depends on how determined said label is to make shit happen. example: the label my old band was on was a very small indie and while the guy who ran it was awesome and the bands on his label were pretty good and getting attention, once we got to know we realized it was his train set and not to much a priority. the bands that moved up made things happen on their own while he just supplied cds, booked so-so tours(and thats being nice), and sold t-shirts. it was more like taking a loan and then having to repay it for how ever long you were pushing that album. now i know some people may think that is how it is for indie bands but there are other labels that do matter to me that give 110% as well as the bands and it usually comes out pretty awesome..

[Guest afsdan]

I don't know any band who can sell 250,000 records self-released

people say labels matter less and less, but even bands who can sell shit-tons of records still work with a label. some move to the majors (which just baffles me to no end), and others stick with an independent. but no matter what, they have a label. even those that self-release create a label (Chuck Ragan/TenFour, for example).

I do think the "old model" of record labels is pretty much extinct, with the resurgence of vinyl, CD sales dropping, downloads up, etc. It is forcing labels to evolve (like Magic Bullet making ALL material available for d/l), and those that choose to ignore what's going on will be left in the tarpit of label lore.

[sgoodcore]

They move to a major because of the major's ability to produce and distribute. No one band outside of a select few who have been playing for decades can get access to a major's ability to mass produce and distribute records.

[Guest afsdan]

must we dig up the Steve Albini article on major labels?

they promote and distribute to make THEMSELVES money.

[sgoodcore]

must we dig up the Steve Albini article on major labels?

they promote and distribute to make THEMSELVES money.

And I'm not arguing that point so there's no need to be patronizing. You said you cannot imagine why a band would move to a major. I provided what I thought the reasoning was. I made no comment on how sound, accurate, or how much it would help a band to do so. Fact is, if the label makes money there's a bettter chance an act will make money.

And holding indies up as some kind of perfect example is totally inaccurate. Over and over bands have detailed how bad they've been treated by indie labels. All the shit that happened over at Lookout! and not to mention Victory. Its not like indies are bastions of high morals and perfect musical ethics.

[motorbike]

must we dig up the Steve Albini article on major labels?

they promote and distribute to make THEMSELVES money.

And I'm not arguing that point so there's no need to be patronizing. You said you cannot imagine why a band would move to a major. I provided what I thought the reasoning was. I made no comment on how sound, accurate, or how much it would help a band to do so. Fact is, if the label makes money there's a bettter chance an act will make money.

And holding indies up as some kind of perfect example is totally inaccurate. Over and over bands have detailed how bad they've been treated by indie labels. All the shit that happened over at Lookout! and not to mention Victory. Its not like indies are bastions of high morals and perfect musical ethics.

victory and eulogy.

[lokithelion]

Labels need to exist, as they help get bands out there and a lot of music fans wont check out unsigned bands. That being said those same fans often wont support bands by buying their records so its a catch 22.

[kirbypuckett]

I don't know any band who can sell 250,000 records self-released

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/In_Rainbows

3 million

edit: I know they're the exception, just pointing that out.

[sgoodcore]

I don't know any band who can sell 250,000 records self-released

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/In_Rainbows

3 million

edit: I know they're the exception, just pointing that out.

Did the end up actually funding all the physical stuff themselves?

[Guest afsdan]

surely indie labels can eat shit too, but so do most bands on said shitty indies. enough people know about Victory's hijinx where you'd think they wouldn't be a business anymore, yet crappy bands line up to be intimidated, stolen from, and treated generally like shit by Tony. Then they act like it's a big surprise when they don't recieve a royalty check. I have no love lost for these bands who pull the wool over their own eyes in some vain and misguided attempt at "blowing up", whether it's Victory, Vagrant, Eulogy, Epic, EMI, or your local label run by some sketchball funded by a trust from Grandma.

[andrew13]

Atmosphere is DIY and can move that much. they self release their stuff on their own label.

and i say yes, just because if i see a band has signed to Fat or Red Scare, i know there's a 99% chance i'll like them. not many other labels i can say that about.

[headtowall]

Atmosphere is DIY and can move that much. they self release their stuff on their own label.

and i say yes, just because if i see a band has signed to Fat or Red Scare, i know there's a 99% chance i'll like them. not many other labels i can say that about.

self release,m with major label distro.

[headtowall]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/In_Rainbows

3 million

edit: I know they're the exception, just pointing that out.

Did the end up actually funding all the physical stuff themselves?

nope. ATO did the physical.

[headtowall]

record labels are most def still needed and will always be needed. In what aspect is up in the air as we move forward. but there will always be a need.

[drabley]

Labels, for me, served as a sort of reference library back when I was first getting heavy into music -- the whole indie/underground scene to be specific. Labels provided me with direction to find the things I liked in an environment that was new to me and one that I had not yet learned to navigate on my own.

Liner notes on physical media (cds, tapes, vinyl) served almost an equal purpose for me. As I found myself delving deeper into a label's catalog and cherishing the gems I "discovered," I also turned to liner notes to get exposure to new bands and labels -- the thank you section specifically. If band X, that I love, is thanking band Y for whatever reason, chances are I'm probably going to dig band Y just as much. So then I'd check out band Y and their label and exploit that catalog as well. And so on.

As I became more experienced in "the scene" and refined my tastes, I found that I no longer needed these reference points to help determine and find the things that I liked.

The advent of digital music, file sharing and social networking vehicles further reduced my dependance on any sort of lable affiliation. Now, I don't even give a shit about labels. No Idea means as little to me as Matador, which in turn mean as little to me as Tiny Engines or Underground Communique (no offence, man). It's the bands that matter.

So for newcomers to a particular scene, genre, what have you, I can see how labels can be of use on the consumer level. But they are defniitely of major importance to the artists themselves, as Sammy pointed out.

[sgoodcore]

Did the end up actually funding all the physical stuff themselves?

nope. ATO did the physical.

I thought it was something like that, which pretty much nullifies Radiohead from the cred they were given and from use as an example. Kind of irks me because if they had the balls they could have made it work.

[¯\_(ツ)_/¯]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/In_Rainbows

3 million

edit: I know they're the exception, just pointing that out.

Did the end up actually funding all the physical stuff themselves?

nope! what do I know!

[arnoldlayne]

Liner notes on physical media (cds, tapes, vinyl) served almost an equal purpose for me. As I found myself delving deeper into a label's catalog and cherishing the gems I "discovered," I also turned to liner notes to get exposure to new bands and labels -- the thank you section specifically. If band X, that I love, is thanking band Y for whatever reason, chances are I'm probably going to dig band Y just as much. So then I'd check out band Y and their label and exploit that catalog as well. And so on.

This was the case for me as well when I started getting big into music. Work my way through one label, then maybe a collaborator was signed to someone else; so I'd look at them. My first question when someone suggests a band I haven't heard of is 'what label are they on?' - puts them into perspective, I guess, rather than just another name - a place on the big musical map. However, what I do find is the number of people who know the answer to that question seems to have gone down.

[sgoodcore]

Liner notes on physical media (cds, tapes, vinyl) served almost an equal purpose for me. As I found myself delving deeper into a label's catalog and cherishing the gems I "discovered," I also turned to liner notes to get exposure to new bands and labels -- the thank you section specifically. If band X, that I love, is thanking band Y for whatever reason, chances are I'm probably going to dig band Y just as much. So then I'd check out band Y and their label and exploit that catalog as well. And so on.

This was the case for me as well when I started getting big into music. Work my way through one label, then maybe a collaborator was signed to someone else; so I'd look at them. My first question when someone suggests a band I haven't heard of is 'what label are they on?' - puts them into perspective, I guess, rather than just another name - a place on the big musical map. However, what I do find is the number of people who know the answer to that question seems to have gone down.

I got to specifically where I am musically by delving head-long in to Deep Elm's catalog. I have almost everything they've ever released until the more recent stuff wasn't stuff I liked.

From there I found Planes Mistaken for Stars. From them I got over to No Idea and off to Level Plane. On Level Plane I found Hot Cross which got me to Neil Perry, Saetia, Hot Cross, Indian Summer, and A Day in Black and White to name a few. A Day in Black and White got me to Sinaloa. All tremendous stuff. And it goes on from there.

For me personally, labels have been of tremendous import but only those who establish an identity for themselves like Deep Elm had, No Idea has, Dischord has, etc.