BenderOfStrings Posted July 12, 2015 Share Posted July 12, 2015 Very simple, which do you think is better and why? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allenh Posted July 12, 2015 Share Posted July 12, 2015 There isnt really a better or worse just different and it depends which one you prefer the sound of. My choice would be the Grado becuase the Ortofon is a little too bright for me but you may well prefer the Ortofon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BenderOfStrings Posted July 12, 2015 Author Share Posted July 12, 2015 Help me understand something then. When someone says a certain cartridge/stylus is "too bright," can't that be adjusted in EQ? Like if I get the Ortofon and it is indeed as you said, why wouldn't I be able to balance that out by adjusting the treble and the midrange (I'm going through a Sony receiver and phono preamp)? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allenh Posted July 12, 2015 Share Posted July 12, 2015 Because when you eq you will shift a wide frequency range not just the bit of it you want to limit, that and you can't add back the bits that are missing. you tend to find the higher up the food chain you get the less tone control you have, the idea being that eq's and tone controls introduce losses and other signal limiting effects that are unwanted so if you look at all the high end stuff there will be a volume control, an input select and a power switch and nothing more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BenderOfStrings Posted July 12, 2015 Author Share Posted July 12, 2015 I see. Thanks for the input. Basically I'm either getting a U Turn Orbit with the Grado Prestige Blue or I'm getting the Debut Carbon DC with the Ortofon Red. That's why I was asking. Based on what you're describing it sounds like the Grado Blue would be better suited for my listening taste. It's going into my Sony receiver which does not have a phono input along with some passive Polk Audio satellite speakers so I'll need a pre amp. I haven't decided on which one to get yet. If I get an Orbit turntable, I'd like to get their Pluto pre amp to go with it, just for the sake of continuity but I haven't seen the first review on it yet. If I get the Debut Carbon, I'm not sure what pre amp I'll get. Maybe the Cambridge 651p or the Vincent Pho-8, which I realize are much more expensive pre amps but if they're that much better I wouldn't mind spending the extra coin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
youspinmeround Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 Personally I would go with the Debut than the Uturn You are worried about cartridges? but one turntable is twice as much as the other. I think for the long haul that's a no brainer why it costs more I would get the better turntable and worry about cartridges later Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 Personally I would go with the Debut than the Uturn You are worried about cartridges? but one turntable is twice as much as the other. I think for the long haul that's a no brainer why it costs more I would get the better turntable and worry about cartridges later Agreed. I also believe the Ortofon is too heavy for the stock weight/tonearm on the u-turn, so if you don't like the Grado you won't have too many other choices for carts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BenderOfStrings Posted July 13, 2015 Author Share Posted July 13, 2015 Good point! Debut Carbon it is! Any recommendations on a phono pre-amp? Something in the 100.00 range? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 I like my Schiit Mani, it's $129. It works with MM and MC carts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stillalivetui Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 I second the Schitt Mani, until they get in stock again, that is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BenderOfStrings Posted July 13, 2015 Author Share Posted July 13, 2015 I know these are considerably more expensive but what about the Vincent Pho-8 pre amps? Would I honestly hear a big difference if I bought something like that compared to the Schiit Mani? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allenh Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 I know these are considerably more expensive but what about the Vincent Pho-8 pre amps? Would I honestly hear a big difference if I bought something like that compared to the Schiit Mani? It very much depends on what you are feeding it with and what it feeds into. Ideally with any system all the components need to be of like quality, so if you have a cheap turntable with an average cartridge feeding into a really good phono stage that feeds into an average AV receiver into poor speakers you won't get the full potential from that really good phono stage and a system that is all average all the way through will sound better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BenderOfStrings Posted July 13, 2015 Author Share Posted July 13, 2015 Project Debut Carbon w/Ortofon Red 2M > Vincent Pho-8 pre amp> Sony Receiver > Polk Audio speakers with subwoofer. That's what my set up would look like. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mesi Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 Project Debut Carbon w/Ortofon Red 2M > Vincent Pho-8 pre amp> Sony Receiver > Polk Audio speakers with subwoofer. That's what my set up would look like.Give us some details on your "Sony receiver" and your speakers. For now it sounds like it makes no sense whatsoever to go big on the phono pre if you have speakers that are only 1/3 of the price of the preamp. Edit: do you have these? http://www.amazon.com/Polk-Audio-TL-Satellite-Speaker/dp/B0043M665O Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allenh Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 Give us some details on your "Sony receiver" and your speakers. For now it sounds like it makes no sense whatsoever to go big on the phono pre if you have speakers that are only 1/3 of the price of the preamp. Edit: do you have these? http://www.amazon.com/Polk-Audio-TL-Satellite-Speaker/dp/B0043M665O This I get the feeling you are just throwing money at it because you can and have read a few things online that tell you to buy X, Y or Z which is a good way to waste money or at least not get the best out of the money you are spending. The front end (Turntable and phono stage) sounds quite a few notches higher up the tree than the receiver and speakers. Also if you are using a sub I take it that's an AV receiver not a hifi one? There's nothing stopping you using an AV receiver with a nice turntable but they are made for multi channel audio/video work and not proper 2 channel hifi stereo so it will always be a compromise and won't do as good a job from the start and you won't be getting the best out of the turntable and that nice phono stage would be a complete waste. If you like the sound that's fine and if it has to be an AV amp because you run your TV and DVD etc through it then you are a bit limited on what you can do. As a general rule Sony amps tend to a bit flat sounding until you get a long way up the range and there are better options out there even with AV amps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BenderOfStrings Posted July 13, 2015 Author Share Posted July 13, 2015 Give us some details on your "Sony receiver" and your speakers. For now it sounds like it makes no sense whatsoever to go big on the phono pre if you have speakers that are only 1/3 of the price of the preamp. Edit: do you have these? http://www.amazon.com/Polk-Audio-TL-Satellite-Speaker/dp/B0043M665O They're similar, though I cannot remember the exact model number. I've had them for about 3 years or so and yes, it is going into an a AV receivever. My thought process when I started this project was "get the best that I can, when I can." While I may not be hearing all the benefits of having a higher end pre-amp now, this is a "journey" fo me. I'm not buying this and then stopping. I will eventually get better speakers and a dedicated audio receiver. However for now I don't want to buy something lower end that I'll just end up having to sell later on or be stuck with because I upgraded. And yes, there WILL be a threshold that I cannot cross because financially I won't be able to bare it. However within reason, i want to eventually upgrade to a rather nice (if modest) home audio set up. So while we're on the subject, can someone recommend to me a good dedicated stereo receiver to go with the Vincent pre amp along with some good shelf speakers? Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FangsAnalSatan Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 Ortofon 2M Blue is far superior to Red if you've yet to buy your cartridge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YouTwo Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 Agreed. I also believe the Ortofon is too heavy for the stock weight/tonearm on the u-turn, so if you don't like the Grado you won't have too many other choices for carts. I've heard of people putting the carts like the 2M Red on the U-Turn but I think they had to add a washer to the counterweight. Haven't experienced this first hand though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ksuwdboots Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 So while we're on the subject, can someone recommend to me a good dedicated stereo receiver to go with the Vincent pre amp along with some good shelf speakers? Thanks. See list of recommended equipment in this post: http://boards.vinylcollective.com/topic/88504-beginner’s-guide-to-turntables-hi–fi-read-1st-page-before-posting-new-threads-basic-questions/#entry1512901 The post is a couple years old, so the prices may no longer be accurate, but it's a good place to start. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BenderOfStrings Posted July 13, 2015 Author Share Posted July 13, 2015 Thanks guys. I decided to take your advice and not consider the Vincent. I think what I want to do is buy a lesser expensive pre-amp now and eventually upgrade to a Hi Fi receiver with the phono amp built in. Since the Schiit Mani isn't available right now, what other alternatives are there for me that would make sense? Something solid, I mean I don't want a piece of crap, but not cost a ton of money. I was looking at U Turns new pre amp called the "Pluto." I wonder how good that one is for 89.99. As for the turntable, the Debut Carbon DC is what I wanted. I like the look of it. I like the specs. Plus I looked at everything avaiable in my price range and based on all that I've read, including reviews, feedback, etc the Debut Carbon appears to simply be one of THE best entry level turntables on the market. Will I be getting the absolute most out of it right now? No but I really do feel that the turntable is the solid foundation to which all other audio components should extend from. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BenderOfStrings Posted July 14, 2015 Author Share Posted July 14, 2015 FYI, I found a new Cambridge 640p pre-amp on Ebay for 180.00 so I bought it. Probably still more than I need but I thought that was a good price as I understand the only difference between this model and the 651p is the on/off switch which doesn't matter to me as I'll be plugging it into a power strip anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BenderOfStrings Posted July 15, 2015 Author Share Posted July 15, 2015 Ha! I got an email from the website that I ordered my Cambridge 640p from and they said they no longer carried it so they're going to ship me a 651p at no extra charge! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
youspinmeround Posted July 15, 2015 Share Posted July 15, 2015 You still havent told us about the receiver or speakers this thread is reading like someone who just bought a stereo magazine xxsilence 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BenderOfStrings Posted July 15, 2015 Author Share Posted July 15, 2015 You still havent told us about the receiver or speakers this thread is reading like someone who just bought a stereo magazine Here are my speakershttp://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000FG9V1I?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_detailpage_o07_s00 And here is my AV receiver http://www.amazon.com/Sony-STRDH520-Receiver-Discontinued-Manufacturer/dp/B004NHCGJO/ref=sr_1_15?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1436992072&sr=1-15&keywords=sony+AV+receiver I also have a subwoofer that came with the speakers but I can't find a link to it anywhere. And before any of you start in, yes I'm well aware that it's not high end equipment and yes I realize that I'm not going to hear the full benefits of the turntable/preamp that I selected. But this is an expensive hobby and I have to start somewhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allenh Posted July 16, 2015 Share Posted July 16, 2015 And before any of you start in, yes I'm well aware that it's not high end equipment and yes I realize that I'm not going to hear the full benefits of the turntable/preamp that I selected. But this is an expensive hobby and I have to start somewhere. As long as you grasp that you'll be fine Do you use your receiver as an AV amp in that you use it with video and gaming devices as well as your turntable/CD player etc? Either way the first thing I would change would be the front pair of speakers, those would be adequate as surround speakers but if you had some decent floor standers as your main speakers you shouldn't need the subwoofer for audio. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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