Advice Needed - Buying Records on eBay (Iron Maiden - ish).

[Satan]

This isn't the Steve Hoffmen forums. Take this shit over there.

[youspinmeround]

Jesus, I cant even choose which post makes me cringe the most. If the record is dirty, never use carbon fiber brush, it will NOT help, if anything, it will increase the surface noise because you are forcing the dirt into the grooves even more. Should have returned the records on the first day if the seller didnt grade them right.

funny because your last 2 posts in this thread make me cringe

[markok]

No.  A fiber carbon brush will not force any dust into the grooves.  It may not be great at removing large amounts of dust, but it is not going to fuck up a record if you go with the grooves.   looking at this guys earlier posts... and his reading comprehension! hahahah!

 

Have you ever cleaned a very dirty car without water? 

 

But seriously, I did read randomly 3 posts from the thread starter which was about 1000 words, so I think Im good. 

[markok]

I have had people going apeshit even when I havent shipped a record to them and I have had people who have deliberately damaged the record and people who replaced the record with their damaged one, so thats why by default I side with the seller. The best thing the buyer can do is to return the items ASAP.

[youspinmeround]

I have had people going apeshit even when I havent shipped a record to them and I have had people who have deliberately damaged the record and people who replaced the record with their damaged one, so thats why by default I side with the seller. The best thing the buyer can do is to return the items ASAP.

You seem to be a magnet for issues

[just a normal guy kevin]

I doubt contacting the seller within minutes of receiving the order would suddenly quell their paranoia. Report an issue right away and there would be a whole other set of claims.

You are asking for a refund without even trying to clean them with a brush or cloth?

How can you know they aren't EX if you haven't already played all 8 LPs in full?

The quick timing is suspicious. You are trying to scam me ASAP!

[redsonja]

I think I'm going to give up with this thread

 

Fortunately eBay contacted me this morning since the seller wrote to them in the middle of the night (just before 4AM) in some kind of attempt to beat me to escalating the case. However, eBay told me that they'd looked at the pictures and the entire exchange history and have agreed that the records are not in the condition advertised, and have offered a return label and a complete refund. Not ideal, as I'd still like to keep the three records which actually are in acceptable condition, but if we can't work that out I guess I'll just return the entire lot.

 

Hopefully this has at least spared some people on this board from a similar situation with this guy.

[slushy]

I would be really, really surprised if you don't get your money back.

[redsonja]

Thanks - I'll keep you posted!

[slushy]

I bet this guy isn't actively trying to scam anybody and just didn't bother looking at or playing the records (despite claiming he did) and the initial gradings were based on some distant memory of how they looked the last time he played them, probably several years ago. Now that his gradings have been challenged he is offended and defensive.

 

I recently listed a whole stack of records without inspecting each one as I was short on time and just described them from memory. When it came time to ship I made sure that each record was as described and while the vast majority of them were, a few older Ramones presses were way worse than I had recalled and I ended up offering a discount/chance to cancel the order as the record was not as I claimed when they agreed to buy it. If I had not checked before shipping, I probably would have thought the buyer was sketchy if they complained about them being not up to scratch for the grading I gave them or that they were damaged. I would have worked out a resolution no doubt (or just refunded them and let them keep the records if they were that unhappy), but in my head I would be thinking "this motherfucker has NO idea!!".

[slinch]

I recently listed a whole stack of records without inspecting each one

 

If I had not checked before shipping, I probably would have thought the buyer was sketchy

 

Are you serious? If you grade records by memory and in the event that you later don't check if your grading was accurate, your first though would be that the buyer is sketchy? Can I please have your ebay ID so that I can block you, you know, just in case?

[caninesapien]

stop buying used records, eventually everything gets reissued with a better mastering and artwork anyway

 

uh... what?

 

 

 

 

 

Have you ever cleaned a very dirty car without water? 

 

have you ever driven a record?

[redsonja]

have you ever driven a record?

Hahaha, that genuinely made me giggle

[slushy]

Are you serious? If you grade records by memory and in the event that you later don't check if your grading was accurate, your first though would be that the buyer is sketchy? Can I please have your ebay ID so that I can block you, you know, just in case?

 

I always inspect, photograph and describe as I am listing, however on this one occasion I did not, and instead inspected before invoicing/shipping.

 

The point was that I thought my memory was pretty good, and it was for the most part, but there were a few items that weren't as I remembered, and I am willing to bet that loads of these sellers with hundreds/thousands of listings are doing the same thing, except they are doing it for all/most of their listing.

[slinch]

The point was that I thought my memory was pretty good, and it was for the most part, but there were a few items that weren't as I remembered, and I am willing to bet that loads of these sellers with hundreds/thousands of listings are doing the same thing, except they are doing it for all/most of their listing.

 

Regardless of how many people you think are doing this, it is an unacceptable practice and any seller that does it is not a good seller. It's concerning that you'd think a large volume of listings somehow justifies it.

[allenh]

I always inspect, photograph and describe as I am listing, however on this one occasion I did not, and instead inspected before invoicing/shipping.

 

The point was that I thought my memory was pretty good, and it was for the most part, but there were a few items that weren't as I remembered, and I am willing to bet that loads of these sellers with hundreds/thousands of listings are doing the same thing, except they are doing it for all/most of their listing.

 

Conversely I always inspect and clean records before packing and sending as I think it's good practice but also because my memory is not always good

 

 

I have had people going apeshit even when I havent shipped a record to them and I have had people who have deliberately damaged the record and people who replaced the record with their damaged one, so thats why by default I side with the seller. The best thing the buyer can do is to return the items ASAP.

 

So every buyer is bad then? I buy and sell and have had good and bad experiences on both sides but mostly good and accept that sometimes there will be a gap between expectation and delivery

 

The major problem with any remote (I.e. not face to face) buying and selling is that the lack of physical interaction expands the likelihood of paranoia and suspicion on both sides exponentially. My usual reaction to this is that contrary to the standard mindset in these situations the end of the world is not imminent and communication is generally the answer, failing that go thermonuclear and break out the red alert bulb.

[slushy]

Regardless of how many people you think are doing this, it is an unacceptable practice and any seller that does it is not a good seller. It's concerning that you'd think a large volume of listings somehow justifies it.

 

Where are you getting the idea that I am justifying this? I fully believe that this lady deserves a refund and that the seller has screwed her around.

 

But I also don't believe that this guy is a scammer and that he sold records that he knew to be in awful condition cackling to himself as he informed her over and over that they were in great shape knowing that he'd soon have her money and there was nothing she could do about getting it back because he had this little plan all worked out.

 

He's just one of the many people listing huge amounts of stock for sale without really bothering to check the accurate condition of any of it (or sometimes if they even actually own a copy at all) and just chucking in the vague "NM/EX" for everything. He's probably been doing this for a decade and is too trusting in his memory of what he has and in what condition. I think he is lying about him checking the stock, but I think in his head the records were in the condition he graded them as being in, and he's defensive that somebody is challenging him on that.

 

Rather than just saying "this guy is wrong, demand a refund!" it's better to acknowledge that these people exist, that there's nothing we can do about them existing and that it's better and more productive to talk about how to identify them so people know to avoid them in the first place.

[allenh]

He's just one of the many people listing huge amounts of stock for sale without really bothering to check the accurate condition of any of it (or sometimes if they even actually own a copy at all) and just chucking in the vague "NM/EX" for everything. He's probably been doing this for a decade and is too trusting in his memory of what he has and in what condition. I think he is lying about him checking the stock, but I think in his head the records were in the condition he graded them as being in, and he's defensive that somebody is challenging him on that.

 

Rather than just saying "this guy is wrong, demand a refund!" it's better to acknowledge that these people exist, that there's nothing we can do about them existing and that it's better and more productive to talk about how to identify them so people know to avoid them in the first place.

 

Very true and sadly a more common occurrence with the resurgence of vinyl, that said I find them more on ebay than I do on Discogs but that does tend to vary depending on the genre of music, on Discogs if you talk to the dance music guys it seems to be a very common thing.

[slushy]

The major problem with any remote (I.e. not face to face) buying and selling is that the lack of physical interaction expands the likelihood of paranoia and suspicion on both sides exponentially.

 

Yep, you nailed it with this.

 

It's that paranoia that somebody is pulling a fast one that comes with buying from an unknown source combined with the ego and anal retentiveness of record collectors.

 

"How DARE you suggest that my NM grading was actually a VG+! Do you know how long I have been selling records, kid?"

[redsonja]

Thanks guys - in this case you may be right initially, but since I asked him before dispatch to play them and check for crackle, etc. and since he told me he had played most of them that same week, and that they didn't even need a clean, there's definitely a little more to it than a simple mistake. That I can understand. It's a little frustrating, but you just send it back and get a refund. This however ... the guy won't even acknowledge the photos, and in his last message to eBay said 'the seller wants to keep half of the records and send half back and would like to negotiate a hefty discount which we believe is totally unfair'. In which twisted reality is only paying for the records that were (almost) as described, and sending the crappy ones back 'totally unfair'?

 

This guy ... Jeez.

[slinch]

Where are you getting the idea that I am justifying this?

Well, right here:

I recently listed a whole stack of records without inspecting each one

 

If I had not checked before shipping, I probably would have thought the buyer was sketchy

 

Not sure why I have to repeat this, it's prety straightforward. If you weren't justifying it, you'd say that in the above scenario your first thought would be that you were wrong for not checking, not that the buyer is most likely sketchy.

[slushy]

Well, right here:

 

 

Not sure why I have to repeat this, it's prety straightforward. If you weren't justifying it, you'd say that in the above scenario your first thought would be that you I also said that I would do all I could too make the buyer happy and refund them if necessary, but you conveniently left that part out when picking out quotes.were wrong for not checking, not that the buyer is most likely sketchy.

 

I also said that I would do all I could to make the buyer happy and refund them if necessary, but you conveniently left that part out when picking out quotes to try and make out that I was trying to justify record sellers doing shitty things.

 

I am not justifying it. I have acknowledged that it's a shitty thing to do and that I personally avoid doing it at all costs, to the point where I will check a record when listing, at the point of invoicing, and then again before shipping. AND if by some chance I realise that I have missed something will always mention it to the buyer so the transaction can be cancelled or a discount can be arranged.

 

In saying that, I am also acknowledging that if by some chance I was to send a record without checking it because in my head the record was in a certain condition the last time I looked at it and it had only been sitting on my record shelf/storage, then it's not hard to imagine that internally I would be thinking that the buyer was sketchy due to my own paranoia (largely due a few experiences where buyers have complained about defects that IMO were definitely not present when inspected by myself). I personally would work with the seller until they were happy, but not everybody is like that and tend to let their ego/arrogance get in the way.

 

It's not justifying his behaviour, it's just thinking about what is probably going in on the head of the seller, about how this situation came to be, and how to spot these kind of sellers in the future, which is way more productive than just saying "REFUND!" and "PAYPAL CLAIM!"

[slushy]

Very true and sadly a more common occurrence with the resurgence of vinyl, that said I find them more on ebay than I do on Discogs but that does tend to vary depending on the genre of music, on Discogs if you talk to the dance music guys it seems to be a very common thing.

 

This is very true! From all of my experiences most people selling punk records are okay-to-great for the most part. If I am buying punk records from a seller who has 300 or less items that are all mostly punk stuff then you know it's just someone who has picked them up new, probably listened to them a couple of times, stuck them on their shelf and are now doing a bit of a cull or selling their collection.

 

Any times when I've received something I believe to be over graded to the extent where I actually feel disappointed it's been the more indie rock/indie pop/alternative leaning stuff from sellers who have an ungodly amount of listings covering numerous genres/styles. Those are the people that are no doubt picking up stuff in bulk and listing quickly without paying much attention to their stock, and just grading everything as NM, unless cosmetically something is obviously in awful shape and then they'll drop down to a VG+ at worst.

[circuit bored records]

OP, can you post a link to the original auction on eBay? I'm curious to read the actual description of the records

[redsonja]

Why certainly, Ryuk: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/281796644695?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT