What are your religious beliefs?

[controlthebleeding]

All you people dumping on SmashingPimp are stuck in the minor leagues. To make it to the big leagues, take yourselves over to the PPMB and start a religious conversation with Cliffy Huntington. It will make your head spin like a top!

im curious. send a link to read.

[benchwarmer]

This is an interesting quote that I found:

"Atheism is not a philosophy; it is not even a view of the world; it is simply an admission of the obvious. In fact, ‘atheist’ is a term that should not ever exist. No one ever needs to identify himself as a ‘non astrologer’ or a ‘non-alchemist’. We do not have words for people who doubt that Elvis is still alive or that aliens traversed the galaxy only to molest ranchers and their cattle. Atheism is nothing more than the noises reasonable people make in the presence of unjustified religious beliefs. An atheist is simply a person who believes that the 260 million Americans (87 percent of the population) claiming to ‘never doubt the existence of God’ should be obliged to present evidence for his existence-and, indeed, for his BENEVOLENCE, given the relentless destruction of innocent human beings we witness in the world each day."

Sam Harris, “Letter to a Christian Nation”

[themean]

Sorry, I have as much respect for someone like smashingpimp as I do for someone who believes that being black is "wrong."

[cosmonaut]

This is an interesting quote that I found:

"Atheism is not a philosophy; it is not even a view of the world; it is simply an admission of the obvious. In fact, ‘atheist’ is a term that should not ever exist. No one ever needs to identify himself as a ‘non astrologer’ or a ‘non-alchemist’. We do not have words for people who doubt that Elvis is still alive or that aliens traversed the galaxy only to molest ranchers and their cattle. Atheism is nothing more than the noises reasonable people make in the presence of unjustified religious beliefs. An atheist is simply a person who believes that the 260 million Americans (87 percent of the population) claiming to ‘never doubt the existence of God’ should be obliged to present evidence for his existence-and, indeed, for his BENEVOLENCE, given the relentless destruction of innocent human beings we witness in the world each day."

Sam Harris, “Letter to a Christian Nation”

Sam Harris is great. 'The End of Faith' is highly recommended.

My favorite Sam Harris quote (this was while Bush was still in office, and comes from Letter to a Christian Nation):

"The president of the United States has claimed, on more than one occasion, to be in dialogue with God. If he said that he was talking to God through his hairdryer, this would precipitate a national emergency. I fail to see how the addition of a hairdryer makes the claim more ridiculous or offensive."

[smashingpimp01]

Steven, great post. I appreciate everything you've said in there. And I know this has been a heated topic but I haven't really taken offense to anything said, except by themean who seems to be attacking me but whatever. You can't make everyone happy. I think i'll let this thread continue it's conversation without me getting people all riled up. I'm available by PM if you have questions

( i doubt it lol)

I've seen this is another thread so maybe it will work here, "What's everyone's plans for Record Day" *see craiglslist prostitute thread

[flood]

the basic teaching of Christ appears to be easily summed up as "Don't be a dick". Theres a lot of good shit going on there... if someones hungry.. feed them, if someones thirsty... give them a drink... if the party ran out of booze... be a pal and get more. He detested bankers, and probably had a bitching beard. I got no problems with him... whether or not he was the son of god.. who knows. But unfortunately theres been 2000 years of Boners after the fact twisting his message, and using it subjugate the poor, justify horrible crimes, influencing politics and molesting the occasional alter boy. Spirituality is totally fine, its really organized religion thats the problem.

and if you actually study the origins of the old testament, you will find how often it was edited for political purposes, was written largely by rich educated men (and from what they believe one woman) and how texts were selectively left out. Check out the Book of J, its a pretty good read on the theoretical history of the first 5 books of the old testament. But its a book that should never be taken literally, because it was written 4,000 years ago by a vastly different society, who needed something to promise hope, as well as keep the masses in line with fear of supernatural repercussions... which given the situations of constant slavery, and nomadic exile was probably needed to start establishing a meaningful; society. But you can't force values and mores of a preindustrial people onto a modern society.

[pjaicomo]

the basic teaching of Christ appears to be easily summed up as "Don't be a dick". Theres a lot of good shit going on there... if someones hungry.. feed them, if someones thirsty... give them a drink... if the party ran out of booze... be a pal and get more. He detested bankers, and probably had a bitching beard. I got no problems with him... whether or not he was the son of god.. who knows. But unfortunately theres been 2000 years of Boners after the fact twisting his message, and using it subjugate the poor, justify horrible crimes, influencing politics and molesting the occasional alter boy. Spirituality is totally fine, its really organized religion thats the problem.

and if you actually study the origins of the old testament, you will find how often it was edited for political purposes, was written largely by rich educated men (and from what they believe one woman) and how texts were selectively left out. Check out the Book of J, its a pretty good read on the theoretical history of the first 5 books of the old testament. But its a book that should never be taken literally, because it was written 4,000 years ago by a vastly different society, who needed something to promise hope, as well as keep the masses in line with fear of supernatural repercussions... which given the situations of constant slavery, and nomadic exile was probably needed to start establishing a meaningful; society. But you can't force values and mores of a preindustrial people onto a modern society.

"But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me." Jesus, Luke 19:27

[sonofgod]

None of you people get it. Not the ones that say you don't believe, and especially not those that say you do.

[scotterson]

"But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me." Jesus, Luke 19:27

Not that I can really explain its meaning, but I would like to point out that that is taken quite out of context, and is part of a parable. I think even the most fundamental followers can agree that parables are not to be taken literally.

[scotterson]

^ Good post.

Also in reference to steven tangent's...

[flood]

the basic teaching of Christ appears to be easily summed up as "Don't be a dick". Theres a lot of good shit going on there... if someones hungry.. feed them, if someones thirsty... give them a drink... if the party ran out of booze... be a pal and get more. He detested bankers, and probably had a bitching beard. I got no problems with him... whether or not he was the son of god.. who knows. But unfortunately theres been 2000 years of Boners after the fact twisting his message, and using it subjugate the poor, justify horrible crimes, influencing politics and molesting the occasional alter boy. Spirituality is totally fine, its really organized religion thats the problem.

and if you actually study the origins of the old testament, you will find how often it was edited for political purposes, was written largely by rich educated men (and from what they believe one woman) and how texts were selectively left out. Check out the Book of J, its a pretty good read on the theoretical history of the first 5 books of the old testament. But its a book that should never be taken literally, because it was written 4,000 years ago by a vastly different society, who needed something to promise hope, as well as keep the masses in line with fear of supernatural repercussions... which given the situations of constant slavery, and nomadic exile was probably needed to start establishing a meaningful; society. But you can't force values and mores of a preindustrial people onto a modern society.

"But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me." Jesus, Luke 19:27

jesus was just reciting hatebreed lyrics here. carry on.

[lokithelion]

And you read the WHOLE Bible?

I read the whole thing from cover to cover for the first time when I was ten. I've read it about eight more times since then, I'm 25. As far as what I live my life by I follow the teachings of Christ. He never said anything about gay people. I figure if it was really that important Christ would have mentioned it himself. Atheists should read the Jefferson Bible. Thomas Jefferson made his own gospels, it's all the actual teachings of Christ with the magic removed. As a book of philosophy it's pretty awesome.

[mcm1610]

I always meant to read the Bible but I never got around to it. I own probably 3 or 4 copies of it for some reason. But no matter what banned says, I just don't buy that someone who gets that infuriated by religion read the whole thing. That's such a big investment to read it cover to cover if it just enrages the person.

As a "historian" (and even with a degree, I use that term extremely loosely) I like referencing the Bible as a hugely important historical text. But you gotta do all the historiography stuff - why was it written? who wrote? what was their goal?

[smashingpimp01]

And you read the WHOLE Bible?

I read the whole thing from cover to cover for the first time when I was ten. I've read it about eight more times since then, I'm 25. As far as what I live my life by I follow the teachings of Christ. He never said anything about gay people. I figure if it was really that important Christ would have mentioned it himself. Atheists should read the Jefferson Bible. Thomas Jefferson made his own gospels, it's all the actual teachings of Christ with the magic removed. As a book of philosophy it's pretty awesome.

Matthew 19: 3 And Pharisees came up to him, intent on tempting him and saying: “Is it lawful for a man to divorce his wife on every sort of ground?” 4 In reply he said: “Did YOU not read that he who created them from [the] beginning made them male and female 5 and said, ‘For this reason a man will leave his father and his mother and will stick to his wife, and the two will be one flesh’? 6 So that they are no longer two, but one flesh. Therefore, what God has yoked together let no man put apart.”

[smashingpimp01]

i'm almost positive that you'll say that scripture doesn't answer a thing lol

[themean]

But no matter what themean says, I just don't buy that someone who gets that infuriated by religion read the whole thing.

I don't think I have said anything about this yet.

I am in the process of reading it cover to cover. I got about a third of the way through and am taking a break to read "The Family" about the residents of the C Street House in DC.

I will finish the Bible, it just gets dull in parts (too much boring lineage, not enough action.) I don't have a problem reading things I disagree with, and there is plenty of non-objectionable platitudes in the Bible that I don't have a problem with.

[selfreliable]

This is an interesting quote that I found:

"Atheism is not a philosophy; it is not even a view of the world; it is simply an admission of the obvious. In fact, ‘atheist’ is a term that should not ever exist. No one ever needs to identify himself as a ‘non astrologer’ or a ‘non-alchemist’. We do not have words for people who doubt that Elvis is still alive or that aliens traversed the galaxy only to molest ranchers and their cattle. Atheism is nothing more than the noises reasonable people make in the presence of unjustified religious beliefs. An atheist is simply a person who believes that the 260 million Americans (87 percent of the population) claiming to ‘never doubt the existence of God’ should be obliged to present evidence for his existence-and, indeed, for his BENEVOLENCE, given the relentless destruction of innocent human beings we witness in the world each day."

Sam Harris, “Letter to a Christian Nation”

This is my issue with athiests, they need EVERYTHING to be proven to them, they have no understanding of something they cant see. Ive never been to China, but I know it exists, Ive never seen the wind, but I know it exists, why is it hard to think that there could be a higher being? Because odds are against it? Odds are you will lose in Vegas, but some people come out on top. Odds are minimal that you will get struck by lightening twice, but it does happen, and it sure as hell is a low chance of being a siamese twin connected at the head, but its all happened.

I say athiests show me the proof that a higher being CANT exist.

[themean]

This is my issue with athiests, they need EVERYTHING to be proven to them, they have no understanding of something they cant see. Ive never been to China, but I know it exists, Ive never seen the wind, but I know it exists, why is it hard to think that there could be a higher being? Because odds are against it? Odds are you will lose in Vegas, but some people come out on top. Odds are minimal that you will get struck by lightening twice, but it does happen, and it sure as hell is a low chance of being a siamese twin connected at the head, but its all happened.

I say athiests show me the proof that a higher being CANT exist.

The onus is generally on the person proving something does exist. I mean, can you prove that we weren't created by being shit out of a platypus' ass? There is just as much evidence of that than there is of a bearded white guy creating everything.

Also, I think you misunderstand atheism. Generally, atheists believe that there is no evidence that a God like the biblical one exists, and not that there is definitive proof that there is no god.

[selfreliable]

Well generally gets you no where. Genereally speaking... that being said... its all crutches by people. If you are so adament that it doesnt exist, prove it. No one can prove shit either way. Relgious people cant prove that he does except for scripture that was written by second hand people and changed depending on the translation. Non-believers cant prove that he doesnt besides "wheres the evidence he does?" I believe, but I could be wrong, that when you are trying to prove something (scientifically or just in conversation) having proof usually helps win people over. Darwinism is far from proof that a higher being does not exist, just like the Bible is far from proof that he does.

[zak138]

What can be asserted without proof can be dismissed without proof.

Christopher Hitchens

[themean]

What I am saying is that most atheists think that there is no proof either way, so why believe in a story. Most don't believe 100% that there is no godlike figure. You are setting up a strawman and then attacking it.

I don't really have any use for the "atheist" label myself, and understand if people believe otherwise. I don't like when peoples' religious beliefs lead to bigotry (as seen above.)

[mcm1610]

But no matter what themean says, I just don't buy that someone who gets that infuriated by religion read the whole thing.

I don't think I have said anything about this yet.

I am in the process of reading it cover to cover. I got about a third of the way through and am taking a break to read "The Family" about the residents of the C Street House in DC.

I will finish the Bible, it just gets dull in parts (too much boring lineage, not enough action.) I don't have a problem reading things I disagree with, and there is plenty of non-objectionable platitudes in the Bible that I don't have a problem with.

Whoops! I'm sorry, I did it again, confused posters. I meant banned! Changing the original post now.

[benchwarmer]

I say athiests show me the proof that a higher being CANT exist.

you're never called upon to prove a negative, that's a law of logic

[grammarpolice]

Well generally gets you no where. Genereally speaking... that being said... its all crutches by people. If you are so adament that it doesnt exist, prove it. No one can prove shit either way. Relgious people cant prove that he does except for scripture that was written by second hand people and changed depending on the translation. Non-believers cant prove that he doesnt besides "wheres the evidence he does?" I believe, but I could be wrong, that when you are trying to prove something (scientifically or just in conversation) having proof usually helps win people over. Darwinism is far from proof that a higher being does not exist, just like the Bible is far from proof that he does.

The one thing in this thread that can be proven conclusively: your (and smashingpud's) grammar is atrocious.

[mcm1610]

Atheism is the belief in no god, not just a biblical god but any god.

All the examples, matthewjacksonjihad, that you gave don't relate at all to the topic. You've never been to China, but other people have. You may not win in Vegas, but people have. You may not have been born with a siamese twin on your head, but people have. Name ONE person who has met god.