WARNING: Don't deal w/ Poly-Cut.com

[jerseydave77]

People need to learn this guy is unreliable at best and a crook at worst. Either way please read this thread first and quit sending this clown money before doing your due diligence. I'm honestly tired of people joining this board solely to bump this thread.

[jamesfella]

I placed an order in February - $255, PAID in February. Retracted in March once I found out he's MONO only, then submitted a proper master by April. It's been a series of excuses since then, and then now no replies at all. I was not aware of this thread throughout all of this, or I would have been checking in. I got one long reply from him in the beginning of Sept, but nothing since and now his main site (Cymbalism) is down, as is his e-mail.

Do we have a standing count of how many people he's currently got waiting who have already paid? Have any of you heard from him at all throughout October to current?

I'm not really sure how best to proceed. I sent him a message on Facebook, will try his girlfriend next. I have home addresses thanks to a friend how had similar problems last year (But DID get his stuff eventually). I may also have his parents address - which I would feel comfortable sending a letter to. ...probably with a print out of our e-mail exchanges.

I understand getting backed up and computer and health issues, but it had gotten to a point that it seemed too shady to believe. Someone from VLV pointed me here and a friend on Facebook was the artist w/ the contact info.

Does anyone have a clue what his current status is? Is he supposedly in the hospital or what? He hasn't been on the above posted twitter at all. Facebook, who knows. I sent him a message on there.

I would feel bad about bugging his parents, but whatever, I don't think there's anything wrong with sending them a letter and seeing what comes of it - who knows.

I mean, I'd love to have my cuts, but since that seems like it's a dead end, I'd prefer to walk away with my $255.

[bunnyhausen]

Well, just to add to the list, Tommie had $125 from me around May this year - heard nothing since September. I'm not holding my breath about seeing the discs or any money back any time soon, obviously. I'll be keeping an eye out to see if anyone manages to hear a peep from him any time soon. Maybe I'm naive, but I don't think he's set out to scam people, even if that's where the enterprise seems to have ended up.

[nothingnatural]

I just did 2 seconds of research and the guy that runs this company made a post about the situation here:

http://lathetrolls.phpbbweb.com/lathetrolls-ftopic2800.html

Read his post (from 11/26) and contact him via the email address he provided.

[tokimedo]

He seems genuine...

[piaptk]

THIS IS FROM TOMMI:

Hello everyone

I am replying via phone so as much as I would love to write a book about what has been going on minute by minute I will try to keep it short but to the point as it has been far too long since I have been able to come on here.

Things are in a shit heap for me right now. Doing lathe cuts was paying my bills up until the hospital situation. I was literally unable to function for close to a month and even now the stress of the situation reminds me with guts aches. Prior to that I had a major loss of files due to my Mac dying on me which set me back two months alone there so I could only cut files I had a physical medium of which explained why some people were getting the jobs while others who have been waiting didn't get theirs sooner.

Regarding the chargeback fiasco, I had been in contact with Evan explaining what was going on and we were back and forthing for awhile then one day the reversal showed up and no replies from him followed. After painstakingly long phone calls with Paypal explaining what I do is custom work and I simply cannot sell what I make to anyone else as it would be stepping on other toes in the bootleg realm, they said they would consider everything good as long as the records were sent with proof of delivery. I sent 2/3 of what I had done immediately which was two jobs of 33 10"s each with signature confirmation via priority mail and they sent me an email a few days later saying it wasn't an appropriate verification and refunded his money. The money he originally sent me went for his order to be made and the money they took out was other jobs in line waiting, not to mention money from my bank account to cover what wasnt there to make up the difference. Evan finally replied back to me but it was a little too late because the money was gone and I had charged some blanks with my Paypal card for a couple jobs. In the end, I got fucked because the payment for the blanks cleared, his refund cleared and I was out a months worth of rent and bill money because of the whole deal. Even the partial payment he refunded me only went to cover part of the bounced fee I was hit with. So yes Evan tried to make things better but it only gets worse.

I have since then been Internetless, my domain for cymbalism could not be renewed so I've lost all my contacts and I'm sure there's a slew of people really concerned and or pissed right now because of the lack of response from me which I assure everyone is totally and completely not what I am trying to do.

I am however busting my ass to get things back the way it was. I started a desk job so I can pay my bills and get money to refund people or get their jobs to them. I've sold a few hundred records from my personal collection as well but things just keep fucking hitting rock bottom for me from bill collectors on my hospital visit to disconnect notices on my utilities to today's disaster of my basement flooding and ruining about 1,200 records I was trying to sell to make things right. Plus the generosity from the trolls who contributed to the get back on my feet fund got swiped from me for a couple chargebacks which have happened since then. So yeah, that brings me up to speed.

I hope to get Internet back on soon as using my phone is not a good option for trying to stay in touch with everyone. I am a firm believer in karma and the last thing I want to do is fuck anyone over. I have had it happen to me way too many times in my life and I don't wish that hate on anyone. I've even considered selling one of my lathes so I can make this right.

I encourage EVERYONE who is waiting on a job from me to PLEASE contact me at thomas.emmi (a) gmail.com as that is the only address I can check on my phone - the Cymbalism one is gone. I want to do whatever I can to show everyone I am not some fucker out to screw them over, rather a strong believer in records and independent musicians wanting to put out media that is real.

Again, sorry for being gone - I miss you guys lots and can't wait to get back to the way things were, locked in my basement doing one record at a time. For anyone wanting proof of my hospital visit I posted a pic of me with an IV on my Facebook when it happened so you can make fact of any accusations of me pulling a card from this Rolodex Evan quoted about. I've lost a good 20 lbs since this happened, lost some hair from stress and every night I fall asleep wondering when the dark cloud over me is gonna clear up as I'm quite fed up with the the hand that's been dealt to me the past 6 months.

Mike, sorry I havent called you back, been really bogged down with work and home life but I will as soon as I can get this water situation in my basement sorted out. You are a true friend and I appreciate everything.

Everyone else, please contact me so I can regain your contact and make things right.

Thanks for reading this novel afterall, my thumbs are killing me!

[piaptk]

As someone who cuts a lot of lathe cuts, I'd like to give a little info that most people who don't cut probably don't understand. I’m not here to apologize for anyone, just give a slightly different perspective that some might appreciate. I’ve hired people to cut lathes for me for years, even since I’ve started cutting because until recently I wasn’t able to cut poly. So, I understand both sides of the story.

Also know that Tommi owes me a bunch of 7”s that he has told me he was “going to ship next week” for several months. So, I’m in the same boat as all of you and similarly frustrated.

I know Tommi and the Single Piece Slate folks personally and have worked with them a lot over the past few years. Tommi and I have been swapping tips and lending each other cutting gear through the mail for years. So, despite everything else, and regardless of what they are or the mistakes they’ve made:

I can PROMISE you, that neither Tommi or SPS were EVER trying to rip you off. I would bet my life on that one.

From my perspective, it definitely appears that neither of them ended up handling all the problems that they had the way they should have, getting in contact with everyone and letting them know what’s going on, but I’m imagining that if things kept stacking up on me (health issues, unexpected equipment problems, etc), and I didn’t have any real new news about when people could get their records, was getting more and more behind and the emails were getting more and more hostile, that it would be an appealing prospect to just shut down and stop reading my emails. Is that the right thing to do? Definitely not, but humans aren’t always able to the right thing all the time.

And remember that you are dealing with HUMAN BEINGS. Do you know why there are no real businesses that do low run, lathe cut vinyl? Because it is a STUPID idea for a business. Because of the cost and labor intensive nature of the whole thing, there is absolutely no way to make it work as a viable business. Peter King managed to do it because he built his own lathes, makes his own needles, already owned his own house and most importantly, because he cuts 4 records at a time. And, if you don’t live in New Zealand, you are still going to pay a LOT of money for the records. And even with that, Peter is still working ridiculously long hours and making very little money. And, in the past, I’ve had records from him take OVER A YEAR before I finally got them. Adam at Corporate Records has somehow managed to make it this long, and I would be curious as to how he does it…

To call this a time consuming business would be an understatement. For every minute of music on your record you are looking at TWO to THREE minutes of prep time, placing poly orders, picking it up, waxing it, drying it, polishing it, setting up the lathe, spot checking the cut audio, printing labels, cutting labels, punching labels, adhering labels, placing record in a sleeve, packing your records into a box, driving to the post office, answering emails, etc. It really adds up. So if you order 50 records that are 5 min per side, you are looking at literally between 20 and 25 hours of labor to make your records.

Anyone who starts a lathe cut business does it for only one reason: They are overly optimistic music and vinyl lovers, who REALLY want to help bands get their music on vinyl. Nobody is under the illusion that they will get rich. If they are under the impression that they will even be sustainable and pay themselves minimum wage for a gruesome, monotonous and frustrating business, they are in for a rude awakening. I mean, imagine listening to the same harsh noise, “experimental”, or grindcore song 50 times in a row if that isn’t what you are into, musically. All the while you are breaking $100 cutting needles, having issues with the lathe, amp, vacuum system, stylus heater, defective records you have to recut, etc etc. This is a really dumb way to make money. And then having people pissed off because the 20 lathe cuts they ordered don’t sound as good as an 210 gram audiophile record. Some people understand the process and are realistic, and some people aren’t. And some people can be a real hard bunch to please. Others can be straight up A-holes. Luckily, I figured this all out right before it was too late and completely ditched my plans to offer up lathe cutting services.

The first big mistake that both Tommi and SPS made was charging TOO LITTLE for their services. Because what happened was that the price they were charging was so low (relative to production costs) that the demand skyrocketed to the point where the supply could not even begin to keep up. If they paid themselves a wage that was commensurate to what they deserved for their time, skill, cost and equipment investment, they would have no business, because no end-consumers would be able to afford the records. If anyone wants a breakdown of costs and efforts to do one of these records, I’d be happy to break it down for you, but I promise you, it is no fun, and there is very little profit.

So, I’m not telling anyone how to feel, I know you are frustrated. And yes, Tommi should have gotten back to you. And if you email him here: thomas.emmi (a) gmail.com my guess is that he will do everything he can to make it right. It might take him a while, but I know for a fact that he intends to.

Remember, this is not some faceless corporate business. This is an unemployed father of 3, who loves music, and whose first big mistake was being carelessly optimistic in starting this business (with the altruistic intent of helping YOU get your music on vinyl) in the first place. This doesn't excuse the fact the he hasn't gotten back to you in the past, just PLEASE take all of this stuff into account and get in touch with him now and give him a reasonable chance to make it right.

Mike.

[tokimedo]

He seems genuine...

[jamesbond]

I'm so angry at being ripped off I've set-up this site. I hope people see it and don't flush their money down the drain. www.bewarepoly-cut.com

[thebear]

Someone's behind the curve... ^^

[piaptk]

I'm so angry at being ripped off I've set-up this site. I hope people see it and don't flush their money down the drain. www.bewarepoly-cut.com

Have you tried emailing Tommi at the email address in his post above? The one that was posted in the last week?

I talked to him today, and he is trying to get everyone to get in touch with him via that address so that he can make arrangements to refund or reevaluate a reasonable timeline to actually get you records if you still want them. You can work that out with him. Losing his server space lost all of his contacts and records of payments other than a bunch of random 6 month old paypal payments, mostly without specific details, and definitely without audio.

And I would encourage anyone else that has been in touch with Tommi, received a refund, worked out a deal, etc. to post as well.

[jamesbond]

Yes I have tried that email account...many, many, many times and no response.

I've logged a complaint with the Better Business Bureau now – I appreciate people have problems, etc. and I'm not an unreasonable person but this is effectively stealing – in the cold light of day he's taken my money, has been contacted (many times) about the status of my order, ignored my emails, won't give a refund and used my money on something that isn't my records.

[fetzu]

Hello everyone,

I just signed up so I could add my name to the (long) list of people who got scammed.

I entered in contact with Thomas 'Tommie' Emmi last spring, and placed an order in september (I hadn't read any of the horror stories, unfortunately). I paid via PayPal (as a "gift", obviously) and provided all the infos (files, labels, etc..) to Tommie. In all fairness, he told me it was going to take a few months (12-14 weeks), and I was willing to wait.

Then the new year came around, and none of the files I had uploaded for Tommie were even downloaded (meaning he could not even have started pressing my lathes). I decided to send him an e-mail, no response. I then tried the "new" gmail address he posted here, still nothing. Finally I proceeded to message him via facebook (https://www.facebook.com/thomas.emmi) and he never took the time to respond; even though he has had some "activity" on there since then..

All the e-mails/messages I sent were non-threatening, I said I was ready to accept additional delay.. but that I just wanted confirmation that he was still planing on completing my order. But NO-THING.

I encourage EVERYONE who is waiting on a job from me to PLEASE contact me at thomas.emmi (a) gmail.com as that is the only address I can check on my phone - the Cymbalism one is gone. I want to do whatever I can to show everyone I am not some fucker out to screw them over, rather a strong believer in records and independent musicians wanting to put out media that is real.

I really wanted to believe in this, but it just looks like he is "some fucker out to screw [people] over."

[sethwoolley]

WOW, I was literally going to place an order yesterday but decided to wait till payday this week to do it. Really glad I waited and this thread happened to pop up.

[sergeantscruffy]

I really wish he was legit because I would totally place an order. There's really nowhere else that does lathe cuts besides that guy in New Zealand, right?

[jerseydave77]

This guy is still accepting new orders?

[sethwoolley]

This guy is still accepting new orders?

i don't know if he is or not, but the site is still up. http://www.poly-cut.com/

[fetzu]

Update: He actually answered my last e-mail a few minutes ago. He says he is still cutting lathes but is way behind on the schedules. He told me he was willing to rush my orders.

I will keep you guys posted.

[lexicondevil]

I really wish he was legit because I would totally place an order. There's really nowhere else that does lathe cuts besides that guy in New Zealand, right?

There's the guy who did the Flashlights lathes. I don't know much about him except he had a delay, but delivered on the records and was friendly. I have his email somewhere just pm me and I will find it.

[jamesbond]

Thomas Emmi is a theif - please DO NOT give him your hard earned money. All this illness crap he's gone on about doesn't mean he can just go ahead and steal people's money.

Here is my site: www.bewarepoly-cut.com.

BEWARE Poly-Cut

[cairdeandroichoir]

"Update: He actually answered my last e-mail a few minutes ago. He says he is still cutting lathes but is way behind on the schedules. He told me he was willing to rush my orders.

Read more: http://vinylcollective.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=57818&start=30#ixzz1pMERYukg

Please dont send him any money, you wont recieve anything.

we still have not recieved our records despite promises that they are cut but he has no funds to send them, that was three months ago and he has not replyed since.

Even the well meaning folks at lathe trolls forum sent him a loan to help him out of the shit, with out knowing that he was scamming them.

Tommie is BAD NEWS. Tommie, if you read this and actually have my records cut and ready to send by courier, i'll gladly eat my words, but evidence is not in your favour

[fetzu]

Still no news since that last e-mail, I tried to e-mail him again but got no response.

I can't believe he's actually pulling this off..

[James_Crispy]

Another rip off story to add:

 

Ordered $600 worth of lathe cut vinyl from Tommie in 2011. He was initially very quick with the emails and communication right up until the point when the money was sent. Then he was gone. Never responded to a single email after that.

 

Do not be fooled by ANYTHING he writes about an illness or being behind schedule etc. He is a theif plain and simple.

 

 

Fuck you Thomas Emmi "Tommie".

 

[James_Crispy]

and by the way everybody just forget lathe cut in general. It sounds like garbage.

 

There is a company out of Germany offering home lathe set up's from about $2500 - $5000 (depending on the extras). These produce vinyl that sounds "okay". It's passable.

 

http://www.vinylrecorder.com/order.html

 

I've ordered a picture disc lathe cut from Corporate Records (Bklyn) and was astonished at just how terrible it sounded. Laughable! The absolute worst thing I've ever heard. It's so bad that it totally negates the effort put in by an infinite amount.

[justin8821]

Curved LTD out of london did a one off for me about a year or so ago that to this day sounds fantastic. Granted it was $80 with shipping to USA but they threw in an extra copy and did a great job. I'm the only person besides my brother that I'm close to/really know that collects vinyl so a one off was good enough for me. I'd like to put out a small batch of 7" records that don't sound terrible and don't lose quality over time without paying a fortune but I've found that out to be next to impossible.