thebear Posted April 10, 2012 Share Posted April 10, 2012 You've just got to realize that they do and decide from a business perspective whether or not to capitalize on that opportunity. I think I have decided to not capitalize on it. The good news is that there are all sortsa new labels popping up more than happy to exploit that avenue and they'll be doing a pre-order 9 months in advance. Man, those guys REALLY got it figured out! You do know that a bunch of legit labels offer digital downloads, not just the bullshit labels you're referring to, correct? Because your holier than thou tone suggests otherwise. This isn't a difficult concept to sort out, you even figured it out on your own up there - people want to listen to music. Unless RedScare is selling a turntable for the car/gym/etc, it's exceedingly difficult to listen to records on the go. Furthermore, now that the RIAA and law agencies are going after online piracy, by not offering digital downloads (which is becoming a basic inclusion of records now, regardless of your opinions on the 'vinyl scene') you're making it harder for people to listen to the music that they just bought. Most people, myself included, won't buy a record, then turn around and buy that same album on iTunes. That said, The Wandering Birds album is sick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lechevre Posted April 11, 2012 Share Posted April 11, 2012 Toby, Just have the center labels be QR codes you can scan and d/l for future releases. (smart ass comment, j/k) (But seriously it'd be a rad idea) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dustin415 Posted April 11, 2012 Share Posted April 11, 2012 I hate to jump in on the anti-redscare trend, as I'm a pretty big fan of his releases (I'm still quite thankful 4152 ever saw a vinyl release), but... if less than 1% of people actually use the download codes, then what is it hurting by including them?You please the shit out of those that use them, and those that don't... don't. But I may be missing the hidden costs here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bathroommonkey Posted April 11, 2012 Share Posted April 11, 2012 i never meant my post to be Red Scare hate. i just really like downloads with my vinyl. i will not buy something like BK's album and then pay itunes for the digital files. in the end, i might pass on records that don't come with downloads, but i'm in the 1% of that argument. it seems like a bad business model to sell an analog medium without a digital add on. does Red Scare expect it's buyers to double pay for an LP and digital files? or do you expect your buyers to either steal the mp3's or make their own? i hate to bring it up, but what about offering downloads to those who want it, even if it comes at a price. mind you all of my No Idea, Sub Pop, Polyvinyl, etc records already come with downloads. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redscare Posted April 11, 2012 Author Share Posted April 11, 2012 i never meant my post to be Red Scare hate. i just really like downloads with my vinyl. No offense taken! Maybe I'll revisit the idea since some of you seem to have your reasons. As you know, vinyl isn't our first priority, but I'll poke around. Good talk! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idreamofpunk Posted April 11, 2012 Share Posted April 11, 2012 You guys... Toby's being open to ideas! Where are the locusts?! Frogs? Ah shit... (I kid, I kid...) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timbrh2001 Posted April 11, 2012 Share Posted April 11, 2012 Im not anti-red scare either. I thank him tons for putting out The Falcon records. Hell, if he ever wanted help to get rid of his unwanted test presses for an online charity auction or something, Id be down to help him out free of charge, considering we live in the same great city and all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timbrh2001 Posted April 11, 2012 Share Posted April 11, 2012 i never meant my post to be Red Scare hate. i just really like downloads with my vinyl.i will not buy something like BK's album and then pay itunes for the digital files. in the end, i might pass on records that don't come with downloads, but i'm in the 1% of that argument. it seems like a bad business model to sell an analog medium without a digital add on. does Red Scare expect it's buyers to double pay for an LP and digital files? or do you expect your buyers to either steal the mp3's or make their own? i hate to bring it up, but what about offering downloads to those who want it, even if it comes at a price. mind you all of my No Idea, Sub Pop, Polyvinyl, etc records already come with downloads. I fully disagree with any argument that youre stealing digital files when you actually spend money (most expensive format albeit) on a physical record. You could technically just do a vinyl rip yourself if you had a USB turntable to work with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bathroommonkey Posted April 11, 2012 Share Posted April 11, 2012 i never meant my post to be Red Scare hate. i just really like downloads with my vinyl. No offense taken! Maybe I'll revisit the idea since some of you seem to have your reasons. As you know, vinyl isn't our first priority, but I'll poke around. Good talk! :internethugs: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebear Posted April 12, 2012 Share Posted April 12, 2012 i never meant my post to be Red Scare hate. i just really like downloads with my vinyl.i will not buy something like BK's album and then pay itunes for the digital files. in the end, i might pass on records that don't come with downloads, but i'm in the 1% of that argument. it seems like a bad business model to sell an analog medium without a digital add on. does Red Scare expect it's buyers to double pay for an LP and digital files? or do you expect your buyers to either steal the mp3's or make their own? i hate to bring it up, but what about offering downloads to those who want it, even if it comes at a price. mind you all of my No Idea, Sub Pop, Polyvinyl, etc records already come with downloads. I fully disagree with any argument that youre stealing digital files when you actually spend money (most expensive format albeit) on a physical record. You could technically just do a vinyl rip yourself if you had a USB turntable to work with. Yeah, but with the crackdown on downloading, who knows how long you're going to be able to download/find the downloads. I'm also a huge Red Scare fan, that's why it bummed me out to see Toby so flippant about downloads. Awesome to see he's mulling over including them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harryq Posted April 12, 2012 Share Posted April 12, 2012 if he includes downloads, let's say that adds $0.50 to the price (they surely aren't free to provide... someone has to host the files, create the codes, print the slips, insert them in sleeves, etc.). the record is already $13.50 at interpunk, vs. $9 on cd at redscare and somewhere around $10 at itunes (I haven't looked), so increasing the price to $14 (or more) might deter some people from buying the record (or at least make people think longer about buying it, taking up space on shelves, costing someone some money somehow). the only benefit is that a small % of customers have something they can probably get on their own (e.g., by "illegally" downloading the music, copying records onto their computer, etc.), so is it really worth it? how about someone buys the album on itunes and offers to share the mp3s with other vc-ers for $0.50, paid via paypal? maybe make them take a picture of themselves holding the record, that way it /seems/ a little less illegal (not that something being "illegal" has stopped people before with respect to mp3s...). if enough people really care about mp3 downloads, you could maybe even turn a profit. and if you don't think it's worth it, then perhaps that's how toby feels I like mp3 downloads, too, but once I get a chance to copy this from the record to my computer, I won't need the download anymore. and in the meantime, I'll just keep playing the six songs streaming on punknews over and over again... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GradedOnACurve Posted April 12, 2012 Share Posted April 12, 2012 ^ iTunes is DRM restricted. Only approved computers that have access to your or whoever bought it(s) account would be allowed to play/upload it. I hate iTunes. I didn't realize this was still a conversation but a label could always do what Black Numbers and other have done and just say e-mail [email protected] for a download. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harryq Posted April 12, 2012 Share Posted April 12, 2012 ^ iTunes is DRM restricted. Only approved computers that have access to your or whoever bought it(s) account would be allowed to play/upload it. I hate iTunes. I'm sure there are ways around that, like burning to a cd and then copying from cd to computer. or just wait until amazon has it. anyway, I'm sure we all have lots of records that didn't come with downloads, and somehow we get by. I'm not trying to defend toby's attitude toward everything, but mp3 downloads are kind of a luxury, albeit one that's becoming more common Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dantheriver Posted April 12, 2012 Share Posted April 12, 2012 Illegal downloads aren't going to stop anytime soon. If someone locks something down there is gonna be someone that can unlock it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GradedOnACurve Posted April 12, 2012 Share Posted April 12, 2012 ^ iTunes is DRM restricted. Only approved computers that have access to your or whoever bought it(s) account would be allowed to play/upload it. I hate iTunes. I'm sure there are ways around that, like burning to a cd and then copying from cd to computer. or just wait until amazon has it. anyway, I'm sure we all have lots of records that didn't come with downloads, and somehow we get by. I'm not trying to defend toby's attitude toward everything, but mp3 downloads are kind of a luxury, albeit one that's becoming more common Yeah I was pretty much ripping iTunes there more than anything. Amazon mp3s are better primarily because they're DRM free. Bandcamp is the best IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottheisel Posted April 12, 2012 Share Posted April 12, 2012 I've inquired with manufacturers and other labels and it's my understanding that only 1% of DL codes are actually used. I really don't think there's any way that number could be accurate. I've put in emails to the people who have done my DL codes and will post what the results are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottheisel Posted April 12, 2012 Share Posted April 12, 2012 UPDATE: I just got back the numbers on the Person L/Weatherbox split 7-inch. Out of the 500 copies in the first pressing, 200 of the download codes have been redeemed. (And since some of those copies are in record stores/distros/otherwise haven't been sold yet, the real number is more like 200 out of 450 or so). I'd say that's a little higher than 1%. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
One Hundred Fifty-Two Posted April 12, 2012 Share Posted April 12, 2012 That is some hard proof. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bathroommonkey Posted April 12, 2012 Share Posted April 12, 2012 UPDATE: I just got back the numbers on the Person L/Weatherbox split 7-inch.Out of the 500 copies in the first pressing, 200 of the download codes have been redeemed. (And since some of those copies are in record stores/distros/otherwise haven't been sold yet, the real number is more like 200 out of 450 or so). I'd say that's a little higher than 1%. do you mind letting us know what a download slip/card runs per unit? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottheisel Posted April 12, 2012 Share Posted April 12, 2012 UPDATE: I just got back the numbers on the Person L/Weatherbox split 7-inch.Out of the 500 copies in the first pressing, 200 of the download codes have been redeemed. (And since some of those copies are in record stores/distros/otherwise haven't been sold yet, the real number is more like 200 out of 450 or so). I'd say that's a little higher than 1%. do you mind letting us know what a download slip/card runs per unit? Mine were free for that release (it was part of a deal they were running at the time), but you can see Gotta Groove's normal rates for DL cards here: http://secure.gottagrooverecords.com/ It's basically $100 just for 500 codes/file hosting (i.e. you print them out yourself), or $200 for codes/inserts/file hosting (i.e. they print them out and insert them in the record). So you're looking at either a $.20 or $.40 per unit increase. I'm sure there are better rates out there, too; if I recall, http://www.vinyldownloads.com is significantly cheaper than that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
birdwell Posted April 12, 2012 Share Posted April 12, 2012 this downloading discussion reminded me that I had yet to use my download card for that PersonL/Weatherbox split....and done Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exitenglish1208 Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 ^ iTunes is DRM restricted. Only approved computers that have access to your or whoever bought it(s) account would be allowed to play/upload it. I hate iTunes.I didn't realize this was still a conversation but a label could always do what Black Numbers and other have done and just say e-mail [email protected] for a download. i dont believe itunes is DRM protected anymore, correct me if i'm wrong someone Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dustin415 Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 ^ iTunes is DRM restricted. Only approved computers that have access to your or whoever bought it(s) account would be allowed to play/upload it. I hate iTunes.I didn't realize this was still a conversation but a label could always do what Black Numbers and other have done and just say e-mail [email protected] for a download. i dont believe itunes is DRM protected anymore, correct me if i'm wrong someone Right. ITunes hasn't been DRM protected in well over 2 years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GradedOnACurve Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 i dont believe itunes is DRM protected anymore, correct me if i'm wrong someone Right. ITunes hasn't been DRM protected in well over 2 years. Thats news to me. It's been a while since I bought from them Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redscare Posted April 16, 2012 Author Share Posted April 16, 2012 That is some hard proof. I remember inquiring with a big label that's quite popular here among VCers and they told me that they go virtually unused. That was about a year ago... Here's another review. Guy compares it to Marilyn Manson, Gogol Bordello, and Joy Division: http://moonandbackmusic.com/archives/6972 While fun, I still think my favorite comparison is to Rick Springfield. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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