GradedOnACurve Posted March 2, 2014 Share Posted March 2, 2014 Surprised no one has created a thread yet. Anyone have family members over there? If so I hope they are safe. Things seem to be getting worse by the hour. Palin is tooting her horn that she was "right", and theres a lot of talk going on. Thoughts? Worthwhile articles? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Posted March 3, 2014 Share Posted March 3, 2014 pretty sure there is a ukraine thread Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hobohunter48 Posted March 3, 2014 Share Posted March 3, 2014 I have a friend that has family there, but I haven't talked to them about all of this. However, this entire situation makes me really nervous. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Posted March 3, 2014 Share Posted March 3, 2014 wow, nope, I was wrong, it was Venezuela that got the thread Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emo Revival Posted March 3, 2014 Share Posted March 3, 2014 I have some distant relatives over there. It's crazy that the US hasn't been more forceful with their demands to stop this since it boils down to free speech. Look up the picture of Kiev before and after, one of the most powerful photos I've ever seen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aflycon Posted March 3, 2014 Share Posted March 3, 2014 Here's the before/after picture of Kiev. I think it's terrible what's going on over there, but I'm really not surprised that this isn't hitting American news very hard. Things are already (allegedly) tenuous enough with Russia, without us shitting on their ability to shit all over everything. Besides, we'd rather hear about Miley Cyrus' new tour or Robin Thicke's divorce than the degradation of the rights of other humans, anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebiglebowski Posted March 3, 2014 Share Posted March 3, 2014 Happy to hear the US isn't considering anymore than political/economic moves. That would be scary on a whole nother level. Some of the estimates say they still have about 10k nukes, half of which are ready to fly. There might be rights violations in the Ukraine, but I don't want World War 3 to start over it (or even just resurrect the Cold War). Russia could also make some moves with Syria or Iran to defy us that would cause some serious problems. Guess I'm just more focused on the geopolitical aspects of this than the lives of Ukranian citizens. Feel sorry for them, but this is political gamesmanship. Not genocide or civil war. Just want it to deescalate and then move to the bargaining table. andi and videogamesandvinyl 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebiglebowski Posted March 3, 2014 Share Posted March 3, 2014 The Ukrainian president is really the key to this whole thing. Every western power should be telling him DO NOT FIRE. Completely overmatched and that makes the situation so much worse. Putin claiming he is "protecting the lives of Russians from an oppressive government" so the more things move towards peace, the less right he has to keep any troops in the country. Would put us in a really stressful position. Would want to help but we have been sucked into plenty of conflicts that started with simply supplying aid to the side we supported. Based on polarized it seems like their people are between alliance to the East and West, I almost want to say to split the country and have two governments. I know this isn't the answer, though. Obviously didn't work for Germany, Korea, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GradedOnACurve Posted March 3, 2014 Author Share Posted March 3, 2014 I definitely agree in the power aspect being a gamesmanship part. Russia is wrong, but I also agree all those huffing and puffing coming from certain political factions is funny. I mean "speeding democracy" costs a lot of money and lives. I'm not trying to sound mean, but there isn't much than can be done other than potentially kicking Russia out of the G8 and proposing certain sanctions. It seems like some from the Fox News and similar arenas will talk about what "real" political heroes like Reagan and GW Bush would do, but yeah strategic international politics don't work like that. I will say although they are bad here we've invaded two countries since the turn of the millennia. Both are near and had a history with Russia, and we gave them the middle finger then. The real losers here are the people of the Ukraine. I mean after breakup of the Soviet Union you would hope things would only get better over time. Nope. Russia decides to do a little more than shut off some gas this year. They just can't escape their grasp. I know Russia wouldn't mind seeing a Ukraine look like Belarus, which looks like the last incarnation of the Soviet Union. Same president for 20 years now... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mac1 Posted March 4, 2014 Share Posted March 4, 2014 Anyone else think Putin may have seen this gem and simply said to himself "this guy is going to stop me, this guy". ..... many people caught Obama’s interview by Costas about the Olympics, and they asked a very reasonable question: Was Obama stoned during the interview. http://theblacksphere.net/2014/02/obama-stoned-interview-olympics/ oh no, good time for distraction.. now ladies and gentlemen Mr. Conway Twitty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GradedOnACurve Posted March 4, 2014 Author Share Posted March 4, 2014 Anyone else think Putin may have seen this gem and simply said to himself "this guy is going to stop me, this guy". ..... many people caught Obama’s interview by Costas about the Olympics, and they asked a very reasonable question: Was Obama stoned during the interview. http://theblacksphere.net/2014/02/obama-stoned-interview-olympics/ oh no, good time for distraction.. now ladies and gentlemen Mr. Conway Twitty. I don't know what's more funny, the "article" using three tweets from nobody or using a picture under the headline which is clearly not from the same video. Unfortunately I can't get the time I wasted on that click back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghjghj Posted March 10, 2014 Share Posted March 10, 2014 (edited) scary times Edited June 5, 2023 by ASSARTOSE change of heart kamalatapes 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yarostino Posted March 10, 2014 Share Posted March 10, 2014 Let me get everything straight. 1)Ukraine was always the "brothercounrty" (and when we were USSR we were one country for very long time) and they also was supported with money and etc. by Russian Federation. eastern germany was also part of the soviet union. does that allow russia to invade parts of germany? ukraine is an independent country that got caught under the claws of russia for a (too) long time. all this talk of "brothercountry" and the "help-letter from yanukovich" is bullshit. ukraine has to stand on its own feet and not depend on russia. 2)According to population census of Crimea from 2001 more than 50% of people who live there are Russians, ~20% are from the other countries and the rest are Ukrainian people just because in a certain part of country "Y" there are a bunch of people who originate from country "X" it doesnt mean that country "X" can take over the part of country "Y". if crimea really becomes a part of russia what will follow next? oh look, people in eastern ukraine speak russian... let's take that part too. 3)I can't tell you much about Ukrainian "Orange revolutuion" in 2004 but it seems, that they elected Yanukovich themself(I may be wrong, because I never cared about it) theres been a lot of reports about election fraud. also, the elections were not really free in the eastern part of ukraine. 4) West and East Ukraine East Ukraine - most of the people there tolerate to Russia and Russian people(of course sometimes sellers in shops refuse to sell you anything just because you are from Russia, but it's ok) West Ukraine - Nazi Bastards (mostly they were revolutioners on "Maidan") they made revolution in the name and under the flags of this(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stepan_Bandera) guy. Because he's their fucking hero. Oh, did I mentioned that "West teenagers" sometimes fight with Russian WWII veterans because they've risked their life saving Ukraine from Hitler occupation? the euromaidan-people came from many different political backgrounds. yes, there also were people from the right wing and yes, it is important now that none of them actually get the power they probably want. still, saying that people from western ukraine are "nazi bastards" is racist and bullshit. it would be the same if i would say "these russians are all idiots like putin" or "all germans are nazis" which would just be not true. 5)In Russia we have adage "For money Hohol will sell his mother" and yeah this is kind of true: Ukraine don't pay us for gas and steals the gas which our country send to Europe for a long time. This is stated fact. And now they want to became "Europian" and Germany to give them money so they can live in happy life not working and etc etc. ukraine didnt pay for gas because yanukovichs government didnt feel like spending money for the country. they would rather build themselves nice homes and buy a million of cars. yanukovichs regime ruined ukraines economic systems. i know several people with their own (mostly smaller) companies that struggle with bankruptcy because of that. and again, implying that ukrainian people wont start working is stupid. 6)Ukraine is our strategical border with europe so if they will integrate, Euro may have a chance to place there their rockets and other military shit. And this is 100% political and security thing to Russia. im not sure if i get this point right. but yes, i agree that the situation in ukraine is very welcome for europe and the us to get into the old conflict with russia once again. 7)Most of Ukrainian people were against this revolution, but who cares? Ukrainian teennagers decided(do they? or is this some kind of plan?) move to Europe and made it true(shouting something like "Hail Ukraine - Kill Russians") (this is so sweet). do you have concrete numbers about that (numbers that come from a neutral point... not the russian or ukrainian media)? i dont see how "most of ukrainian people" were really against it. i have a vibe that most were and still are actually against yanukovich/russia. 8)Big part of Ukrainian army refuse to work with new autority (because they don't know what they are doing) and swiching to the Russian side again, do you have any numbers or statistics? also, people will probably go there where the money comes from. plus, if these people have the same political opinions as the berkut people... well, then ukraine is much better off without these idiots. 9)Putin and Yanucovich are thieves, yeah, but where the guarantee, that new autority won't steal? this is a very good point and i agree with you on that. BUT there is a chance to get a new regime that probably wont steal, right? or should the people just say "ah, we cant guarantee that the next government wont be as idiot and criminal as the one right now... so who cares. lets all go home and let the government ruin us and our country."? i dont think so... andi, kamalatapes, kyacrash and 1 other 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mac1 Posted March 10, 2014 Share Posted March 10, 2014 Yawn....time for a weekend of golf and sun in Florida. Oh look..up in the sky...Global warming. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Posted March 10, 2014 Share Posted March 10, 2014 just because in a certain part of country "Y" there are a bunch of people who originate from country "X" it doesnt mean that country "X" can take over the part of country "Y". if crimea really becomes a part of russia what will follow next? oh look, people in eastern ukraine speak russian... let's take that part too. SO MUCH THIS. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
futures Posted March 10, 2014 Share Posted March 10, 2014 I sensed a whole lot of propaganda-influenced paranoia coming from that post that ASSARTOSE made. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghjghj Posted March 10, 2014 Share Posted March 10, 2014 (edited) scary times Edited June 5, 2023 by ASSARTOSE change of heart Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yarostino Posted March 10, 2014 Share Posted March 10, 2014 if i count correctly the 10th and 11th centuries are over since a few years... if we already think that way: why not give italy back some european countries. there was the roman empire after all, right? even if half of the crimean population is russian, it still doesnt mean its part of russia. i dont say that there should only be ukrainians on crimea. hell, if people want to live there... good for them. but it is, was, and should stay a part of the ukraine. again, you cant just take countries apart just because youre the russian president. i dont see how your example of that chocolate factory works here. hygiene factores are surely not the best in the ukraine but thats another topic thats not discussed here right now. yes, maidan wasnt all or even half of the kiev population. but first, youll never get out "all" people of a city, thats just not how the world works. second, youre forgetting about all the other cities that have been protesting as well. as for berkut. alright, maybe my choice of words was not the best. forget what i said about their political views. these people are criminals. just like yanukovichs government. just like the titushky. berkut have been attacking the press for no reason, they have been attacking all people on the maidan, no matter if they were peaceful or violent. they have been sitting on buildings and throwing molotov cocktails and road stones on them. is that how "protecting people" works? they have been kidnapping people from the maidan. torturing them, humiliating them, throwing them into the woods. naked, in the middle of the winter. protecting people... yeah, right. that being said the right wing protesters have done just as bad things too, thats correct. and im not defending them in any way. theres also no excuse throwing molotov cocktails at berkut (even if theyre as big idiots as they are). also, im originally ukrainian. i lived there for several years. i still have family over there and ive been talking to people. i know what the situation was and is like. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yarostino Posted March 10, 2014 Share Posted March 10, 2014 oh and also, saying that "there are only idiots in the western part of country X" is racist, yes. its stereotyping. im not saying "hey, all russians are idiots", am i? its just wrong to say it that way. im sure that youre probably also a decent guy who is just in fear of his country, his people, and so on. there shouldnt be any hatred at all between the actual citizens of russia and ukraine. we just have to get rid of the politicians. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghjghj Posted March 11, 2014 Share Posted March 11, 2014 (edited) scary times Edited June 5, 2023 by ASSARTOSE change of heart Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kamalatapes Posted March 11, 2014 Share Posted March 11, 2014 Let me get everything straight. 1)Ukraine was always the "brothercounrty" (and when we were USSR we were one country for very long time) and they also was supported with money and etc. by Russian Federation. 2)According to population census of Crimea from 2001 more than 50% of people who live there are Russians, ~20% are from the other countries and the rest are Ukrainian people 3)I can't tell you much about Ukrainian "Orange revolutuion" in 2004 but it seems, that they elected Yanukovich themself(I may be wrong, because I never cared about it) 4) West and East Ukraine East Ukraine - most of the people there tolerate to Russia and Russian people(of course sometimes sellers in shops refuse to sell you anything just because you are from Russia, but it's ok) West Ukraine - Nazi Bastards (mostly they were revolutioners on "Maidan") they made revolution in the name and under the flags of this(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stepan_Bandera) guy. Because he's their fucking hero. Oh, did I mentioned that "West teenagers" sometimes fight with Russian WWII veterans because they've risked their life saving Ukraine from Hitler occupation? 5)In Russia we have adage "For money Hohol will sell his mother" and yeah this is kind of true: Ukraine don't pay us for gas and steals the gas which our country send to Europe for a long time. This is stated fact. And now they want to became "Europian" and Germany to give them money so they can live in happy life not working and etc etc. 6)Ukraine is our strategical border with europe so if they will integrate, Euro may have a chance to place there their rockets and other military shit. And this is 100% political and security thing to Russia. 7)Most of Ukrainian people were against this revolution, but who cares? Ukrainian teennagers decided(do they? or is this some kind of plan?) move to Europe and made it true(shouting something like "Hail Ukraine - Kill Russians") (this is so sweet). 8)Big part of Ukrainian army refuse to work with new autority (because they don't know what they are doing) and swiching to the Russian side 9)Putin and Yanucovich are thieves, yeah, but where the guarantee, that new autority won't steal? Anyway: try to inagine your feeling, if Canada would riot for Russiani ntegration) I also like how foreing news goes apeshit about this subject) Sorry for my english I did my best to make it understandable. I'm giving him major kudos for attempting to write in English. Any of us try writing back to him in his language? We'd probably slaughter ourselves horribly I sensed a whole lot of propaganda-influenced paranoia coming from that post that ASSARTOSE made. You call that Propaganda? then what do you call this? haha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
futures Posted March 11, 2014 Share Posted March 11, 2014 ? I guess I was unaware that propaganda can't surface in many ways? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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