radiatorhums Posted August 10, 2015 Share Posted August 10, 2015 And if the record was something that would be hard to replace/super important, it's on you to take the initiative to request they insure the package/ship a higher class, etc. I'm going to disagree with this soley on the fact that PayPal almost always sides with the buyer. If you're a seller with a high value item, it would be smart to require insurance. I know that buying/selling is a two part relationship, but I think the seller needs to be smart and protect him/her self more than anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
just a normal guy kevin Posted August 10, 2015 Share Posted August 10, 2015 I received something similar a couple of weeks ago: http://s27.postimg.org/8r3u8tdqb/IMG_1072.jpg http://s1.postimg.org/l9urdde1r/IMG_1070.jpg It was packed really well, and must have just been left somewhere real hot. The pattern of the bubble wrap was actually melted into the plastic sleeve, and then even into the grooves of the record itself. I've never seen anything like it before! When these things happen you can never blame the seller, unless the packaging was terrible. There's no way they can be at fault for the mailer being placed next to something super hot or left in the sun when being transported. And if the record was something that would be hard to replace/super important, it's on you to take the initiative to request they insure the package/ship a higher class, etc. It would be pretty awesome if you could collect $30, drop a record in a mailer, leave it at the post office, and never ever have to worry again about the transaction or making sure it got there safe or possibly have to deal with a customer issue. But, unfortunately, if you use PayPal, you are agreeing that the buyer will eceive a functioning, as-described item at their doorstep, regardless of any transit damage, or else they can get their money back. Insurance protects you, not the buyer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slushy Posted August 10, 2015 Share Posted August 10, 2015 I'm going to disagree with this soley on the fact that PayPal almost always sides with the buyer. If you're a seller with a high value item, it would be smart to require insurance. I know that buying/selling is a two part relationship, but I think the seller needs to be smart and protect him/her self more than anything. It would be pretty awesome if you could collect $30, drop a record in a mailer, leave it at the post office, and never ever have to worry again about the transaction or making sure it got there safe or possibly have to deal with a customer issue. But, unfortunately, if you use PayPal, you are agreeing that the buyer will eceive a functioning, as-described item at their doorstep, regardless of any transit damage, or else they can get their money back. Insurance protects you, not the buyer. It is hard to fault what ya'll are saying as it IS in the paypal guidelines, but I just find it really sad that people are so willing to ditch 20+ years of accepted etiquette because some payment websites TOS says they'll pull your money back if you aren't completely happy with your purchase, basically making buying records off of some guy on discogs the same as buying something from a large chain. It's just so weird to me how much peoples attitudes have changed in such a short amount of time. For so long the worldwide record trading community has been this really cool, friendly thing with people helping each other find records they are looking for, and not slamming each other with refund demands every time something goes wrong. Now people are attempting credit card chargebacks if they don't receive their record within a few weeks or if the corners are bent a little. mac1, NapalmBrain and TheComebackKid 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Le Gogh Posted August 10, 2015 Share Posted August 10, 2015 You guys must have some sort of consumer protection law in the States (i.e. Not just paypal t&c's). In the UK we have Consumer Contracts Regulations: http://www.which.co.uk/consumer-rights/regulation/consumer-contracts-regulations In a nutshell: "The Consumer Contracts Regulations make it clear that the seller is responsible for the condition of the goods until the goods are received by the consumer, or by someone else they have nominated to receive them on their behalf, like a neighbour." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MondoFanM Posted August 10, 2015 Share Posted August 10, 2015 If you read some forums like Audiokarma or Steve Hoffman you could come away with the impression all new records arrive warped or are purchased from a store warped. In the past several years I've personally only had a couple of issues and have bought countless records. Most recently my Ex-Machina second LP had a slight warping to it but was still playable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
just a normal guy kevin Posted August 11, 2015 Share Posted August 11, 2015 People still buy records. People are still cool to each other. More global trading and selling is probably done today than at any other time in the world's history and with the most efficiency and lowest amount of cost and risk for both parties. More buyers can buy confidently knowing that they will receive an item as it was described and, if not, there are policies in place to help them get a refund or replacement without having to engage the seller in a potentially confrontational manner. More sellers can minimize the risk of getting in time-and-energy-consuming customer complaints by insuring packages for a relatively low fee. I don't see where any of this is killing the community or encouraging the exploitation of sellers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slushy Posted August 11, 2015 Share Posted August 11, 2015 That's just the thing though, so many people aren't cool with each other any more. When I first started buying records from Lookout or other punk labels as a kid or buying/trading from classified ads in fanzines a little later, I would never in a million years think that I deserved a refund or replacement copies if my records turned up damaged, just because why the hell would I want a small label releasing the music of bands I really like or some guy who had a record I wanted be out of pocket because of an unfortunate mishap by the postal service!? Like I'm sure it happened and that some people did attempt to get their money back, but no way was it a common thing and the general attitude of record collectors/traders was that by virtue of sending a record through the mail, it was acknowledged and accepted that it was obviously going to be handled by people who care way way way less about some piece of plastic than you do. The bigger problem is that so many labels/sellers no longer trust people to just be cool and friendly with each other and refuse to sell to them unless they are paying for insured, registered packages with tracking, which is making buying records from overseas completely unaffordable. I know that not being able to get pop punk 7"s from Japanese bands isn't really THAT huge of a deal, like say not having access to clean drinking water or whatever the fuck, but it's just really sad that that 20+ years of cool, friendliness that has existed is disappearing because people no longer trust each other to be reasonable and understanding humans. And for the record, I'm not really talking about a seller taking out insurance on a package, I'm talking about the people buying who are opening up paypal claims when the tiny bedroom punk label they ordered from didn't get them their record within a month, and they are unable to comprehend the idea that a label is run by one person who is out on tour for a few months. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mindovermatter Posted August 11, 2015 Share Posted August 11, 2015 It sucks because, like the person above me, I used to buy lots of CDs and records via mail order back in the day and didn't sweat it when skmething arrived damaged. Since then, however, prices have gone up SO MUCH that I rarely think of the labels that I am buying from as "small" and I no longer think that replacing my record sets them back. I can count on one hand the number of labels that have kept their pricing reasonable over the past 10 years, and they are excluded from my rant. That being said, many folks are babies about the condition of their record nowadays as well. I still think that there is a major difference between "damaged" and "no longer mint" and most people complain about the latter and not the former. None of this is relevant to OPs record, however. Hopefully the USPS will save the day, as this is clearly their fault. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
just a normal guy kevin Posted August 11, 2015 Share Posted August 11, 2015 If a tiny label can be enough of a business to commission presses of records, establish a mail order or online store, coordinate and fulfill orders, and balance their costs and profits, they can be a business enough to send a 15 year old a 2nd Green Day cassette to replace the one that was lost in the mail. I don't like this romantic narrative of artists suddenly and conveniently becoming poor, inept, pity-worthy, commerce savants the moment they finish getting paid. It's a bit demeaning to the labels and bands who work hard and build reputable independent music businesses. No 15 year old should have to swallow a lost or damaged package that they paid for and made to feel like it's an act of self-sacrificing support to not ask for a working, usable replacement or refund. If I could co-opt the term 'cool and friendly' I would use it to describe sellers who step up to the occasion as the 'professional' party in the transaction and hold themselves to a higher standard than 'I'm just a guy, man. I can't act professional or assume the risks and costs of a real seller. Why can't you be the cool one and just eat the loss'. You love my label and send me your money? You send me money to buy these records from me? If I'm the seller/label, I look at you as the awesome one in this equation and I gladly do what I can to make you happy. I don't pretend to be inept and poor and make you feel sorry for me. Mars 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slushy Posted August 11, 2015 Share Posted August 11, 2015 You make it sound like getting 200 7"s pressed up and signing up with bigcartel or putting some stock on bandcamp is a super difficult task. If a label works hard to keep everyone happy and is super professional, then that's great and good on them for being good people, but it's still super shitty when people treat all labels/individual sellers like they are Amazon by making use of an automatic claims process that almost always guarantees they get their money back and the other party loses out. And you're right, when people are being cool and friendly with each other they definitely will work through the issue, and in the majority of cases people will either offer a full/partial refund or figure out some other compromise, like for example if it was a very small label they may offer distro rates or free shipping on their next order as a good will gesture. There's no problem with ANY of this, and in most cases I myself would offer a refund as I know how much it sucks getting a destroyed record in the mail. But it's also super important that people realise that the source of their records is in a lot of cases another person just like them who is being hurt by their lack of empathy and understand that their sense of entitlement is not always right and sometimes the cool and friendly thing to do is just let it go. The major problem lies with people thinking that every label/seller is the same as Amazon. I guess in my ideal world, the 15 year old kid who blew all their savings on a record order that got damaged would tell the label that and they'd get their replacement, and the adult who works full time and has enough money for it to not hurt too bad would let it slide and would just repurchase the record and there would be a cool and friendly balance. And most importantly it'd just be this chill, self policed thing and there won't be the need for some clinical third party automatic claims process. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NapalmBrain Posted August 11, 2015 Share Posted August 11, 2015 If your band/label doesn't hit foo fighters/disturbed level merch sales they need your money, I'm not saying you shouldn't try to work out something if a record comes in wrecked, but if it has a few bent corners just let it go. It really does hurt costs to do replacements on LPs which is why most stores that aren't rich like amazon only accept vinyl returns on a case by case basis. The internet has just made everyone entitled and impatient. Also too many people demand perfection, from an imperfect format (not saying a warped record is acceptable, although if they play through I don't even return) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrMystery Posted September 19, 2015 Share Posted September 19, 2015 I ve just received a strangely warped record. Waiting for a response from seller... hope i ll get a refund. Did anyone of you try to unbend his record ? Heavy weight pressure on it / heat... Any positive results or can i just stick it in my sorry ... ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shitty Rambo Posted September 19, 2015 Share Posted September 19, 2015 I ve just received a strangely warped record. Waiting for a response from seller... hope i ll get a refund. Did anyone of you try to unbend his record ? Heavy weight pressure on it / heat... Any positive results or can i just stick it in my sorry ... ? If you're gunning for a refund then you should return the record and cut your loses, otherwise weight could fix the issue (heavy books, or packed tightly between other records for a few days or weeks). Heat isn't a good idea, trust me. I screwed up a couple records experimenting with this. You can get it to work by placing the record between two panels of glass in direct sunlight for 5 minutes. Put a weight in the center and leave the record in a paper sleeve, otherwise the grooves will "melt". Try at your own risk! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrMystery Posted September 19, 2015 Share Posted September 19, 2015 Thanks I ll wait for the seller response and try the weight solution. .. The record isn t bend in an uniform way but it s worth trying... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gutzonborglum Posted September 19, 2015 Share Posted September 19, 2015 I've had luck just sticking a warped record in the middle of a shelf full of records and forgetting about it for a period of time. It wasn't a terrible warp, just a bit of torque to it. I personally wouldn't want to involve heat at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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