thebiglebowski Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 The reason that baseball writers won't vote for steroid guys is that they see themselves as the protectors of the game -- who were asleep at the wheel while all that was going on. They see themselves as protecting the honor of the game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3arl Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 The reason that baseball writers won't vote for steroid guys is that they see themselves as the protectors of the game -- who were asleep at the wheel while all that was going on. They see themselves as protecting the honor of the game. Protecting the honor of the game, while removing the honor from the HOF. Classic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebiglebowski Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 The honor of the hall of fame is only increased by not letting people in. Whether it is fair and consistent is a different story. kamalatapes 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3arl Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 The honor of the hall of fame is only increased by not letting people in. Whether it is fair and consistent is a different story. The exclusivity might be increasing, but the honor itself is starting to mean less. One of the voters sold his ballot to Deadspin for their users to vote on it, which is ridiculous, but the funny part is that the ballot had a more complete and appropriate selection of candidates than lots of the other voters'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chamb117 Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 i love how nobody knew verlander was injured in the first place... now he's not gonna be ready in time for when pitchers/catchers are called to camp. it'd be nice to know which "core muscle" was surgically repaired. if it's a hernia or something then no big deal, but i wouldn't really classify that as an injury. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 i love how nobody knew verlander was injured in the first place... now he's not gonna be ready in time for when pitchers/catchers are called to camp. it'd be nice to know which "core muscle" was surgically repaired. if it's a hernia or something then no big deal, but i wouldn't really classify that as an injury. I know, thats what I was thinking when I saw that on ESPN Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sacredheart Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 The exclusivity might be increasing, but the honor itself is starting to mean less. One of the voters sold his ballot to Deadspin for their users to vote on it, which is ridiculous, but the funny part is that the ballot had a more complete and appropriate selection of candidates than lots of the other voters'. He didnt sell his vote, he gave it to them. I personally dont think the voting is all that broken. Yeah, no one made it in last year, but this year has a total of 6 people going in, which is the largest in quite a long time. People say that the 10 votes max per ballot needs to be changed, but they arent even close to voting in 10 players a year. The system isnt broken because players like Trammel and Morris arent getting voted in. To me it seems to be more a point that writers make to drive up page hits and to get their name out to the public more. I for one would have loved to read articles written about the careers of all the people eligible opposed to another 100 articles about how it needs to be fixed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 http://www.crawfishboxes.com/2013/12/27/5246924/baseball-hall-of-fame-craig-biggio-and-a-story-of-suspicion Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebiglebowski Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 Sounds like there might be some movement in the Arod case tomorrow Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 Yeah its right around the end of the arbitrators decision window Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
russell Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 Next years class should have at least three locks for the Hall of Fame. Randy Johnson, John Smoltz and Pedro Martinez. Gary Sheffield has a strong possibility too. hell yes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3arl Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 He didnt sell his vote, he gave it to them. I personally dont think the voting is all that broken. Yeah, no one made it in last year, but this year has a total of 6 people going in, which is the largest in quite a long time. People say that the 10 votes max per ballot needs to be changed, but they arent even close to voting in 10 players a year. The system isnt broken because players like Trammel and Morris arent getting voted in. To me it seems to be more a point that writers make to drive up page hits and to get their name out to the public more. I for one would have loved to read articles written about the careers of all the people eligible opposed to another 100 articles about how it needs to be fixed. Articles about the eligible players would be a good read. Unfortunately lots of the BBWAA members (the ones who would presumably write these articles) aren't educated on those players. Hence their uninformed votes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebiglebowski Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 Sheff is linked to steroids Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebiglebowski Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 This thread makes it sound like these guys are way more incompetent than they are. The no doubters get in. The borderline guys sometimes do after a couple tries. Individuals might vote in weird (inconsistent) ways but when you look at the whole, they mostly get it right. Only major exception would be if you fundamentally disagree with their position on steroid users. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 Biggio is not like Palmeiro in terms of PED allegations/verification Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3arl Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 This thread makes it sound like these guys are way more incompetent than they are. The no doubters get in. The borderline guys sometimes do after a couple tries. Individuals might vote in weird (inconsistent) ways but when you look at the whole, they mostly get it right. Only major exception would be if you fundamentally disagree with their position on steroid users. There is a top 10 all time first basemen and a top 10 all time catcher who will likely sit on the ballot for a couple more years who would beg to differ. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebiglebowski Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 Bagwell and Piazza will get in eventually. I don't think they are first ballot guys. To me, first ballot guys need to be one of the couple best in the entire MLB for a period of 10 years or so. By that definition, there can only be a couple each decade. I'm not sure Frank Thomas shouldn't have had to wait another year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebiglebowski Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 First balloters are the guys that our kids kids will know about in the way that we know about Ruth and Cobb. Our grandkids will know Rivera. They'll know Pujols. They'll know Bonds. They won't know Bagwelll or Biggio, or at least won't be any more likely to know them than we know Arky Vaughn or Dan Brouthers (both hall of famers) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kamalatapes Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 Bagwell and Piazza will get in eventually. I don't think they are first ballot guys. To me, first ballot guys need to be one of the couple best in the entire MLB for a period of 10 years or so. By that definition, there can only be a couple each decade. I'm not sure Frank Thomas shouldn't have had to wait another year. I don't understand. The dudes got 12 All Star appearances and arguably the best offensive catcher ever. He was no Ivan Rodriguez, but no one will ever be an Ivan Rodriguez. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3arl Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 I guess to me the whole distinguishing which ballot someone gets in on seems trivial. First ballot or fourteenth ballot shouldn't/doesn't matter. So voters saying "I don't think he deserves to be in yet" but plans on voting him in later just doesn't make sense to me. These players can't do anything else to strengthen their case, so why hold them off? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebiglebowski Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 What you say makes logical sense, but it's just not reality. Being a first ballot guy is an additional honor to being let in, and it is likely to continue for a long time. The only negative I see to having 1st ballot be reserved for the elite of the elite is that you might have guys who die while on the ballot (give it enough years and it is inevitable). It robs them of the ability to experience induction in person. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lemongoat Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 JT Snow got 2 votes. Armando Benitez and Jacque Jones each got one. There needs to be an authority that can look at ballots and have the power to remove that writers privilege to ever vote again Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lemongoat Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 Looking back at past ballots is freaking insane. Aaron Sele got a vote. Bill Mueller, he of 1220 hits, 85 homers and 0 all star games, got 4 At least 1 vote - Eric Karros, David Segui, Pat Hentgen, Jesse Orosco, Jay Bell, Travis Fryman, Chuck Knoblauch, Chuck Finley, Jay Buhner, Walt Weiss, Greg Jefferies. I could go on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KennyFuckingPowers Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 I don't understand. The dudes got 12 All Star appearances and arguably the best offensive catcher ever. He was no Ivan Rodriguez, but no one will ever be an Ivan Rodriguez. Theres no argument about it because his number speak for itself. He is the best offensive catcher ever. http://www.crawfishboxes.com/2013/12/27/5246924/baseball-hall-of-fame-craig-biggio-and-a-story-of-suspicion I gotta agree with the guy. If Biggio did indeed take them for less than a season out of his 20...I dont think he should be crucified for it. The guy never won a world series. Also this guy makes great points, it never really affected him positively. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebiglebowski Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 Looking back at past ballots is freaking insane. Aaron Sele got a vote. Bill Mueller, he of 1220 hits, 85 homers and 0 all star games, got 4 At least 1 vote - Eric Karros, David Segui, Pat Hentgen, Jesse Orosco, Jay Bell, Travis Fryman, Chuck Knoblauch, Chuck Finley, Jay Buhner, Walt Weiss, Greg Jefferies. I could go on. People are just throwing a nod to players for whatever reason. They don't expect Aaron Sele to make it so it doesn't matter. Not saying it's right, but I don't believe any of those votes were serious. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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