Scott vs. Jason - FIGHT!

[nickheitman]

There is actually a band called "Boys Like Girls"?

it's one of those manufactured pop rock bands that's built around the lead singer to capitalize on 13 year old girls who have their hands deep inside daddy's wallet.

or 17 year old who like pop music. not naming any names or anything..

[mattstrike]

The difference is that Homophobia causes the death of Queers, Trannies, Questioning folk, and basically any "Butch" woman or "Femme" man. The difference is that over half of this fucking country is overweight and it is accepted, while those who identify as Queer, Gay, Lesbian, Dyke, Fag, etc. still pay the price for their burden that they shoulder in this society that STILL FUCKING marginalizes them in almost every part of their life!! THAT DOESN'T FUCKING HAPPEN WITH OVERWEIGHT FOLKS. Cars get fucking bigger, King size beds become California King, Lazy Boys get wider, fast-food gets supersized, 100% processed "food" is sold more cheaply than fresh veggies, pant waists get fucking larger. See what I mean? Our society DOES NOT ACCOMMODATE Homosexuals at fucking all.

While I don't totally disagree I don't necessary agree either. I don't think society accomodates people who are overweight nearly as much as you make it out to seem. Cars got bigger as a sign of wealth and bling, not people's size. I would say there's a lot of subcutaneous discrimination. People aren't seen as handsome and such which leads all kinds of small things people do in reference to them.

I also think the food thing is a different issue.

I understand where you're coming from in the regard that being overweight is more acceptable but its still not acceptable. That's why Weight Watchers, Jenny Craig, the lap band, gyms, and fad diets are all part of our societal stands.

I say discrimination is still discrimination and I would be willing to bet calling someone fat happens as much on a second grade playground as it does in college and beyond.

I agree with you on a lot of these points, but I still think the food issues are very enmeshed - you eat shit, get overweight, go to WW pay them money to get thin and start the cycle all over again. It may not sound like it's accomodating, but in a sinister way, it is.

And yeah, discrimination is discrimination, but, come on, are you really willing to equate gay-bashing homophobes who'd like to apparently "drag [my] stupid ass behind a car" with some webmaster's stupid comments? I mean - Oakland just proved my goddamn fucking point. He doesn't agree (or doesn't have the capacity to understand Queer issues) with me, so it resorts to violence - not ONE post regarding the fat-jokes ended with a wish of Tate's death.

Once again, you give me one example where someone who is overweight was threatened for their life by someone in a bar, a mall, a fucking downtown street.

Google "Homophobic Hate Crimes". Read the results. None of what you'll read has ever happened to someone who was "fat". About the hardest thing overweight folks have to put up with are jokes. I wish to hell that was the only thing Queer folks had to worry about.

[adamlikesmusic]

well he did when he sold ap.net to buzznet for a couple million. he bragged about it for weeks on the website after it happened.

it's pretty stupid of him to have his actual street address in his email signature... it would be a shame if packages with horrible things inside started showing up.

"What's in the booooooooooox????"

I just bought that DVD at Target like 45 minutes ago. Was $5, I couldn't resist.

[sgoodcore]

I won't argue that homophobia may be a more serious issue but I still say Scott deserves to be stuck-up for when it comes to someone taking shots at him over his weight.

[scottheisel]

"What's in the booooooooooox????"

I just bought that DVD at Target like 45 minutes ago. Was $5, I couldn't resist.

Whoa, $5? That is a goddamn steal! I was at Target last night but didn't see this; maybe I'll go back tonight.

Also, this thread took a super-huge turn for the weird. Let's get back to what's important: Can anyone tell me who lives at 123 FAKE STREET, SPRINGFIELD USA? I've always wondered about that specific address but I have absolutely no idea who might reside there.

[mattstrike]

I wish someone would drag your stupid ass behind a car.

This is a fucking argument - and that's your response? What a sad fucking world we all fucking live in.

[mattstrike]

I won't argue that homophobia may be a more serious issue but I still say Scott deserves to be stuck-up for when it comes to someone taking shots at him over his weight.

Sure, but (now) 7 pages worth? And a lot of it was more Tate bashing.

Fuck, Oakland just made a not-so veiled threat on my life because of my seemingly different position on this country's culture issues than his - how big a thread will I get for that?? Not a single page is my bet.

[Duff]

how and why did this thread turn into something about homophobia?

[sgoodcore]

Well, you have to admit, Tate is a douche. It can't be said enough.

[tanukichu]

I won't argue that homophobia may be a more serious issue but I still say Scott deserves to be stuck-up for when it comes to someone taking shots at him over his weight.

Sure, but (now) 7 pages worth? And a lot of it was more Tate bashing.

Fuck, Oakland just made a not-so veiled threat on my life because of my seemingly different position on this country's culture issues than his - how big a thread will I get for that?? Not a single page is my bet.

Would you like it if I made a Matt vs. Oakland thread? I totally would. I think his comment was definitely out of line.

[silentgods]

this thread has been to some weird places i didn't expect it to go.

[mattstrike]

No thanks. Appreciate the offer Nicole.

I have no need to type at that guy. Tho, if it suckered him into more fucked up, hateful, derogatory, violent spats, maybe he'd get banned and we'd all be better off.

[mattstrike]

how and why did this thread turn into something about homophobia?

Sammy brought it up and I "took the bait" (not accusing you of baiting me Sammy!). I'd really like to close this chapter now.

[Guest]

this thread has been to some weird places i didn't expect it to go.

the board in general has been weird lately.

[lokithelion]

I won't argue that homophobia may be a more serious issue but I still say Scott deserves to be stuck-up for when it comes to someone taking shots at him over his weight.

Sure, but (now) 7 pages worth? And a lot of it was more Tate bashing.

Fuck, Oakland just made a not-so veiled threat on my life because of my seemingly different position on this country's culture issues than his - how big a thread will I get for that?? Not a single page is my bet.

Oh grow up Matt. He did not make a threat against you. Pull the stick out two inches.

[casey]

I won't argue that homophobia may be a more serious issue but I still say Scott deserves to be stuck-up for when it comes to someone taking shots at him over his weight.

Nice summation. Not being sarcastic at all. Keep in mind that Matt said nothing about Scott's weight and he's been threatened with a horrific hate crime. People on here have a hard time with proportion.

[oakland]

Would it matter if I told you I'm gay?

[lokithelion]

I won't argue that homophobia may be a more serious issue but I still say Scott deserves to be stuck-up for when it comes to someone taking shots at him over his weight.

Nice summation. Not being sarcastic at all. Keep in mind that Matt said nothing about Scott's weight and he's been threatened with a horrific hate crime. People on here have a hard time with proportion.

Even the people I love here have lost their minds.

Was oakland's response very mature? no

Was oakland's response referencing something Matt had said (its okay to make fun of over weight people because they don't get drug behind trucks and murdered)? YES! Oakland probably has as much clue about Matt's orientation as I do. Oakland made a crack about Matt's death because he was annoyed with Matt, not because Matt is, isn't, or might be gay. It isn't wishing a hate crime on someone to make a hyperbolic statement on a message board.

Oakland doesn't hate gay people. Oakland's comments in the other thread are a great example of how stupid this place's reactions to things are sometimes. If I make a joke about beating my wife people will laugh, because they understand its a fucking joke and I don't beat my wife. If Oakland makes a spousal abuse joke, involving the common stereotype that abuse happens because the offending party "wastes money" in the other persons eyes, and makes it about a dude its because he hates gay people and not because the joke probably wouldn't work with his wife beating him over ordering too many records. Was it clumsy humor? Yeah! But it wasn't hateful against gay people. Shit of all my friends the only know I know whose been beaten by their significant other is about as flamingly gay as it comes.

People disagreeing with you about whether or not its okay to use the words gay or faggot as another word for bad aren't necessarily homophobic or hateful towards gay people. They could just disagree with you. By blowing your wad over silly arguments like "his joke was about his husband beating him, so obviously it means he hates gay folks!" you make yourself look like a moron and trivialize actual homophobia and hate.

Matt are you actually gay? Outside of Perez Hilton the only people I know who are this insanely reactionary about any and all perceived homosexual slights, real or imaginary, are straight dudes.

[mattstrike]

Sure, but (now) 7 pages worth? And a lot of it was more Tate bashing.

Fuck, Oakland just made a not-so veiled threat on my life because of my seemingly different position on this country's culture issues than his - how big a thread will I get for that?? Not a single page is my bet.

Oh grow up Matt. He did not make a threat against you. Pull the stick out two inches.

Oh, he didn't?

Referencing a fucked up, horrific hate crime in conjunction with his wishing it would happen to me isn't a veiled threat? As someone whom identifies as Queer, I believe I am well within my fucking right to be fucking offended and a little threatened by his (yet another) homophobic remark. If I lived in the same goddamned city as Oakland, I'd certainly be expecting some kind of physical threat from him. And that isn't me being childish or rigid - that's years and years of shit like that and the consequences I've seen from it. Regardless, how can you actually defend that guy? People have some fucked up values around here - someone gets called "tonsofun" and people go apeshit; someone totally disrespects me for no apparent reason referencing a devastating, horrific and violent homophobic act, and I'm supposed to fucking "grow up"???

Fuck that shit, and fuck this board. I honestly can't believe the shit that get's tolerated - no, condoned - around here. I thought this board was about punk rock and the positive aspects of the culture surrounding that music. Obviously, I was severely wrong.

And the stick is presently in the precise position I've been going for, so, no, I won't pull it out.

[Guest adam526]

I've never had a problem with Tate. Sometimes it seems like he's asking for people to hate on him, but if you really think about it, all it's doing is bringing in more traffic to his site.

When he announced he was going to have an exclusive news post about Daisy, it's release, and artwork, people were going crazy anticipating it. It was surely going to bring a lot of people to the site. Two days later Brand New said all of the details on stage at a show, people listened and who did they report it to? AP.net of course, so at 5 in the morning (est), there was still a thread going that already had 1,000+ responses in it. People called him out "dude what happend to an exclusive", "i thought YOU were gonna release this", "What the fuck man whyd you tell everyone to wait til next week", but do you think he cared? Hell no, the traffic on the site was cray for the next few days.

The only problem I have with AP.net is their shitty ass logo.

[lokithelion]

Oh grow up Matt. He did not make a threat against you. Pull the stick out two inches.

Oh, he didn't?

Referencing a fucked up, horrific hate crime in conjunction with his wishing it would happen to me isn't a veiled threat? As someone whom identifies as Queer, I believe I am well within my fucking right to be fucking offended and a little threatened by his (yet another) homophobic remark. If I lived in the same goddamned city as Oakland, I'd certainly be expecting some kind of physical threat from him. And that isn't me being childish or rigid - that's years and years of shit like that and the consequences I've seen from it. Regardless, how can you actually defend that guy? People have some fucked up values around here - someone gets called "tonsofun" and people go apeshit; someone totally disrespects me for no apparent reason referencing a devastating, horrific and violent homophobic act, and I'm supposed to fucking "grow up"???

Fuck that shit, and fuck this board. I honestly can't believe the shit that get's tolerated - no, condoned - around here. I thought this board was about punk rock and the positive aspects of the culture surrounding that music. Obviously, I was severely wrong.

And the stick is presently in the precise position I've been going for, so, no, I won't pull it out.

He was referencing your post. He didn't randomly say "hey dragging gay people behind a truck sounds awesome!" He read your post and cited it.

If there was an honest to God threat it would be dealt with. Was he being childish, sure. But his statement had nothing to do with you being gay, considering I had no idea I'm pretty sure a occasional poster like Oakland also had no idea.

*edit: no idea about you being gay*

[mattstrike]

Nice summation. Not being sarcastic at all. Keep in mind that Matt said nothing about Scott's weight and he's been threatened with a horrific hate crime. People on here have a hard time with proportion.

Even the people I love here have lost their minds.

Was oakland's response very mature? no

Was oakland's response referencing something Matt had said (its okay to make fun of over weight people because they don't get drug behind trucks and murdered)? YES! Oakland probably has as much clue about Matt's orientation as I do. Oakland made a crack about Matt's death because he was annoyed with Matt, not because Matt is, isn't, or might be gay. It isn't wishing a hate crime on someone to make a hyperbolic statement on a message board.

Oakland doesn't hate gay people. Oakland's comments in the other thread are a great example of how stupid this place's reactions to things are sometimes. If I make a joke about beating my wife people will laugh, because they understand its a fucking joke and I don't beat my wife. If Oakland makes a spousal abuse joke, involving the common stereotype that abuse happens because the offending party "wastes money" in the other persons eyes, and makes it about a dude its because he hates gay people and not because the joke probably wouldn't work with his wife beating him over ordering too many records. Was it clumsy humor? Yeah! But it wasn't hateful against gay people. Shit of all my friends the only know I know whose been beaten by their significant other is about as flamingly gay as it comes.

People disagreeing with you about whether or not its okay to use the words gay or faggot as another word for bad aren't necessarily homophobic or hateful towards gay people. They could just disagree with you. By blowing your wad over silly arguments like "his joke was about his husband beating him, so obviously it means he hates gay folks!" you make yourself look like a moron and trivialize actual homophobia and hate.

Matt are you actually gay? Outside of Perez Hilton the only people I know who are this insanely reactionary about any and all perceived homosexual slights, real or imaginary, are straight dudes.

Loki, i appreciate the thought that you put into this, but explain to me exactly how Oakland's remarks are in regards to what I said - which you have totally taken waaaay out of context, as I never said it was okay to make fun of obese folk?

My issue is that homophobia continues to get a fucking pass on this fucking board. But because people are 1. in agreement or 2. chicken-shit to call folks out, it keeps going. I don't give a fuck if it was a joke or that bullshit Oakland wrote - it has no fucking place on this board. And that is my fucking opinion. That's my wish - if none else calls it out, everyone assumes it's just fine to make remarks because being "gay" is so fucking funny. The folks who are the real morons are the people who condone this bullshit with their complicit silence. And it doesn't have to be "hateful" to be homophobic. What would be the reaction if Oakland had written Dante's lover was an uppity black woman? Would that be condoned, or would it be considered subconscious racism?

Does it matter what my sexual orientation is in regards to this shit? No fucking way - whether I'm Queer or an Ally, it still reeks.

And Oakland, it doesn't matter if your sexual orientation is Queer or Straight - your not my type, honey. I wouldn't tap your ass with a ten foot pole, so don't worry. And if you are Queer, which would be very interesting and actually not at all that surprising since I know many Queer men who are married (to women) and they spew homophobic remarks cos they are so conflicted and filled with self-hatred - but they are definitely still gonna be at the bath-house Friday night.

Goodnight and Good Fucking Riddance.

Can't wait to meet everyone @ FEST!! WHoooo!!

EDIT: I am talking about the first sentence Oakland wrote.

And, Loki, he didn't "just" cite something I said - he issued a wish that it would happen to my "stupid ass" - and that pretty much sounds like he meant it, given the VERY apparent rage/anger he has for me.

[oakland]

When did gay people corner the market on being dragged behind cars? Donald Bird was dragged to death for being black. A friend of mind got beat nearly to death for being white. I saw a skinhead get beat TO DEATH by a bunch of hardcore kids at a show in Philly for saying the world nigger. The world is a fucked up place, even if you're straight. I don't hate anybody, but I sure do get sick of people who spout tolerance but aren't tolerant of opposing views. If you are truly "tolerant," then you have to let it go when people say nasty things about you, too. Right?

[casey]

That last sentence is easily the most assinine thing I've ever heard--no hyperbole. It is completely stupid.

[mattstrike]

If you don't hate anyone, publicly apologize for wishing me to die.

BTW - Tolerance is a fucking joke - it doesn't exist - it's like saying the NYT is 100% objective in their reporting, or that Fox News is fair and balanced - it's a hoax. What we need to work towards is acceptance. When that happens, I will shut the fuck up.

I NEVER said the world wasn't a fucked up place and I referenced a hate crime as proof that the ragging on Scott's weight pales in comparison to homophobia. Why the fuck can't anyone see that? I never said it was okay to make fun of folks who are overweight!!

Goodnight