eddieruckus Posted January 5, 2008 Share Posted January 5, 2008 This thread is pretty wacky. I like Against Me! on occasion. I see no problem with it. That being said, the only No Idea release I own is the Glass and Ashes record. Its damn good. look into the young livers "the new era drop". it's wonderful agreed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cadetapplesauce Posted January 5, 2008 Share Posted January 5, 2008 as long as they're making good music... hell, New Wave made it to the top spot on my best of 2007 list (well.. it may just have been the way i was feeling last week). i remember there was another against me debate on here (i think) and someone even quoted one of their songs: "If it doesn't matter now, then it never really did." but fuck that. tom gabel can be a shitbag, i don't care. i like the music. fuck, the who were assholes, people have been waiting for like a decade for drama queen axl rose's new record. the songs are what matter. at least against me is bringing something different to the mainstream. i'd rather hear against me every 10 minutes as opposed to fall out boy every 5 minutes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slymer Posted January 5, 2008 Share Posted January 5, 2008 Thrash Unreal is probably the best song I've heard in the last 10 years, if you throw out the entire Gaslight Anthem album. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
controlthebleeding Posted January 5, 2008 Share Posted January 5, 2008 I don't get why so many people are into them. (I love smites) So many people are into them, is because of their affiliations with the labels they were with as well as the bands they toured with and the festivals they played. That makes for a large fan base, whether they would have been signed to SIRE or not (it was SIRE right). As far as "Selling out" well here's a good example of what has happened with one other band you might have heard of: Apparently CHUMBAWUMBA sold out by releasing a MAJOR LABEL album, and playing on MTV and having their songs played all over TOP 40 radio stations. Well being a political, anti-corporate band, they did exactly what they sang against in their songs, coming off as hypocrites. And when the popularity grew, they knew it would eventually level off and proceed to drop, and with all the money they made and all the popularity they gained, they gave back to the charities they sponsored, and made note to the masses of the things they did believe in...so while most ol' schoolers, crusty punks, anarchists, etc believed they were selling out, they were actually doing more good for their cause than if they hadn't done anything at all. Reaching a larger fan base and making more of an impact. Now, AM!, well i don't know if they are going to go as far as give most of their royalties to charity and i seriously doubt it, and after all the interviews and dodged questions regarding this 'Selling out", i think they are doing it just for the sake of a paycheck to live, and maybe a bit of popularity to survive. But let's see what they do with this popularity, if they just decide to do this for the sake of selfishness and a paycheck, or if they give back to the scene that put them on the map in the first place. Sorta like LESS THAN JAKE, though signed to a major, they had it their way, and released countless other releases on other labels, as well as NO IDEA, thus never forgetting where they came from. You can't ask for more from a band. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eroc Posted January 5, 2008 Share Posted January 5, 2008 Good point. anti-flag was also labeled as "selling out"because they went to a major label, but they made the argument that at least they were able to get their message out a bigger audience. after all isn't that what's really important? i think it just bothers most people when it feels that you have such a strong bond with a band that you helped to support all those struggling years - and then they "blow up" and it's kinda like you're not so important anymore. maybe that's just it...we're a little too quick to try to try to keep something like that just to ourselves and not want to share it. it's music - i love it - and if going on a major label is what it takes to keep a band i respect alive well then more power to them. and hey wouldn't selling out actually be if you heard their songs in every chevy commerial and they sold their shirts at walmart? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurtz Posted January 5, 2008 Share Posted January 5, 2008 I have no problem with a band moving up to a major label. What bothers me is when a band's lyrical content is mainly about being "against the system", like Anti-flag and Against Me, then they turn around and join a major label. They are being hypocrites no matter how they try to spin it. I still listen to both bands, I just lost some respect for them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skumbucket Posted January 5, 2008 Share Posted January 5, 2008 Your myopic belief that No Idea is the number one collectible record label is really symptomatic of the problem I have with his board. dude, he didn't say no idea was the number one collectible record label. see? strongly disagree that this board revolves around No Idea records. Your acquisition seems like a weak attempt at having to classify these boards. Not everything has to fit into a niche. There are quite a bit of folks around these parts that like No Idea and that's understandable because they are one of the more vinyl friendly labels. On top of that they may even be the #1 record label if you are analyzing them in terms of collecting. However, VC would still be active if No Idea fell off the face of the earth so your point is moot. he said that it's one of the more vinyl-friendly labels operating today, which clearly is a fact. the reason there are so many against me! and no idea threads on this board isn't because we're all sitting in front our turntables jacking off on our copies of "reinventing axl rose" every time we flip sides, it's because there are a lot of pressings of their popular bands and they're often nebulous. people have trouble identifying them and ask for help, and since we just happen to have some of the biggest collectors of am! and hot water music here, they lend help. it comes up, that doesn't mean every collection of every person on this board consists solely of no idea releases. trying to prove yourself right by not paying attention, mischaracterizing the facts, and reading what you want into other people's statements isn't how an "argument" is won or conducted. also, using the biggest words you know doesn't intimidate other people -- believe me, i've tried. also, why even bother to pretend you DIDN'T start this thread because you have a superiority complex and wanted to stir up some shit? that's pretty obvious to everyone but yourself, it looks like. if you think we're spoiled or lesser collectors or something because we like to use the internet to procure our albums then why don't you go back to your flea market or your record conventions with all the other smelly little pretentious assholes and complain about "the kids." putting a picture of a poison idea album in your signature doesn't make you better than me. people like different things, and whether you're okay with it or not different people have a different perception of "punk" sometimes. if kids like against me! and you don't just leave them alone. and if you don't like us, you don't have to participate here. in conclusion, -1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1 everybody else, i'm taking you out for chocolate milkshakes. be in the van in five minutes with your seatbelt buckled. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest scriptedrain Posted January 5, 2008 Share Posted January 5, 2008 trying to prove yourself right by not paying attention, mischaracterizing the facts, and reading what you want into other people's statements isn't how an "argument" is won or conducted. +5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottheisel Posted January 5, 2008 Share Posted January 5, 2008 everybody else, i'm taking you out for chocolate milkshakes. be in the van in five minutes with your seatbelt buckled. Fuck yeah! Dad rules! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vivsavage Posted January 5, 2008 Share Posted January 5, 2008 I have no problem with a band moving up to a major label. What bothers me is when a band's lyrical content is mainly about being "against the system", like Anti-flag and Against Me, then they turn around and join a major label. They are being hypocrites no matter how they try to spin it. I still listen to both bands, I just lost some respect for them. Agreed, when a band builds a nice fan base with a DIY mentality and "anti-establishment" lyrics it sours me a bit when they sign to a major. That being said, I still have respect for a band that started from the ground up instead of being spit out of the "cute alternative band" generator (ie. Paramore and Panic at the Disco) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottheisel Posted January 5, 2008 Share Posted January 5, 2008 Paramore did start from the ground up. Those kids have been playing music together since 2004, which doesn't seem like a long time until you realize their singer is 18 and their drummer is 16, meaning these kids were recording and touring at ages 14 and 12, respectively. That is kind of insane, if you ask me, especially considering how tightly they play. The first time I saw them, they were playing the Shiragirl "stage" (aka the ground) at the 2005 Warped Tour. Two years later, they're headlining the goddamned thing. That doesn't just get handed to you; you have to prove yourself, and they definitely did. Just because a band makes music you don't enjoy doesn't mean they were spat out by some soul-sucking major label to cash in or something. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xfedaykinx Posted January 5, 2008 Share Posted January 5, 2008 i understand the major label argument to a point, however if a band is popular due to their anti-establishment lyrical content, and theyre able to sign to a major, then doesnt that allow them to spread their anti-establishment message to a broader audience, thus upping the anti-establishmentism? isnt that good for anti-establishmentites? anti-establishmenters? anti-establishmentees? are rage hypocritical for being on epic and singing about smashing capitalism or whatever? its a tool to be used to spread a message. rage are a key example of that. that being said, i also dont like AM! or Anti-Flag, but whatever. who cares what other people listen to? i dont like 80% of the bands that everyone talks about on this board, i just speak when i feel like contributing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vivsavage Posted January 5, 2008 Share Posted January 5, 2008 Paramore did start from the ground up. Those kids have been playing music together since 2004, which doesn't seem like a long time until you realize their singer is 18 and their drummer is 16, meaning these kids were recording and touring at ages 14 and 12, respectively. That is kind of insane, if you ask me, especially considering how tightly they play. The first time I saw them, they were playing the Shiragirl "stage" (aka the ground) at the 2005 Warped Tour. Two years later, they're headlining the goddamned thing. That doesn't just get handed to you; you have to prove yourself, and they definitely did.Just because a band makes music you don't enjoy doesn't mean they were spat out by some soul-sucking major label to cash in or something. Understood. Just because I started noticing a band in the last year doesn't mean that they haven't been working at it for a while. (It just means I haven't done my research) But i'm sticking with my Panic at the Disco reference, damnit!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dante3000 Posted January 5, 2008 Share Posted January 5, 2008 You know who else was touring at the age of 14? Tiffany. Think about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eroc Posted January 5, 2008 Share Posted January 5, 2008 everybody else, i'm taking you out for chocolate milkshakes. be in the van in five minutes with your seatbelt buckled. Fuck yeah! Dad rules! duuuuuude i could soooo go for a milkshake it would rock my socks off Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottheisel Posted January 5, 2008 Share Posted January 5, 2008 You know who else was touring at the age of 14? Tiffany.Think about it. You know, the Nazis had pieces of flair they made the Jews wear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skumbucket Posted January 5, 2008 Share Posted January 5, 2008 i understand the major label argument to a point, however if a band is popular due to their anti-establishment lyrical content, and theyre able to sign to a major, then doesnt that allow them to spread their anti-establishment message to a broader audience, thus upping the anti-establishmentism? isnt that good for anti-establishmentites? anti-establishmenters? anti-establishmentees? are rage hypocritical for being on epic and singing about smashing capitalism or whatever? its a tool to be used to spread a message. rage are a key example of that. yeah! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skumbucket Posted January 5, 2008 Share Posted January 5, 2008 duuuuuude i could soooo go for a milkshake it would rock my socks off i actually made myself one immediately after posting that. delicious! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eroc Posted January 5, 2008 Share Posted January 5, 2008 duuuuuude i could soooo go for a milkshake it would rock my socks off i actually made myself one immediately after posting that. delicious! insert jealously here Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kyle Posted January 5, 2008 Share Posted January 5, 2008 Punk rock politics are stupid and I won't say anything that hasn't been said before so I'm going just leave everyone with a quote from Jeff Ott (if you don't know who he is take a punk rock history class, you dolt!). " Why (did my band break up)? As much as Scott or some others would like you to believe that I make tons of money off this band, the simple fact is that it has always been a money loser. Sure I make money off a tour or i get royalties a few times a year. It doesn't even come close to the amount of money and time spent maintaining it. I am no longer in a position of continuing to lose money. i have kids and am in five figure debt. By the way that nice little "ethic" WE created for punk rock that says you can't make a living off of it means that people who have kids and people who don't live with their parents and aren't wealthy can't do a band. That's classism." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xxmartinxx Posted January 5, 2008 Author Share Posted January 5, 2008 also, using the biggest words you know doesn't intimidate other people -- believe me, i've tried. I'm quite sure what you mean by this. also, why even bother to pretend you DIDN'T start this thread because you have a superiority complex and wanted to stir up some shit? that's pretty obvious to everyone but yourself, it looks like. if you think we're spoiled or lesser collectors or something because we like to use the internet to procure our albums then why don't you go back to your flea market or your record conventions with all the other smelly little pretentious assholes and complain about "the kids." putting a picture of a poison idea album in your signature doesn't make you better than me. people like different things, and whether you're okay with it or not different people have a different perception of "punk" sometimes. if kids like against me! and you don't just leave them alone. and if you don't like us, you don't have to participate here. I was trying to get a better understanding why people were such devout collectors of Against Me. It wasn't meant to incite the ire of the people here, however I knew that it probably would. I fully exalt the internet and Paypal. It was the best thing to ever happen to record collecting. I used to have to wait 6 months to get stuff from SST Records. Now everything is quick and easily accessible. I never said I was a "real" record collector. I never would want to be. They are some of the most neurotic wackos I've ever encountered. I'm sorry you take personal offense to the Poison Idea cover in my signature. I've changed it to something perhaps more pleasing to you. Unfortunately, it's still Poison Idea related. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skumbucket Posted January 5, 2008 Share Posted January 5, 2008 dude, i like poison idea just fine. it just seemed to me like it was standing up as a case of "true" punk rock in your mind against selloutz like against me. that may be a misconception on my part, but that's what it seemed to me. i guess what i was trying to say is if you do your homework, you'll find two or three people who are avid against me collectors and a few others who are fans of the band and more still who own one or two releases. they're a popular band, and with well over 500 members on the board that seems like a healthy cross-section to me. if you want to figure it out, ask those two or three rabid collectors what the appeal is. people get offended when you stereotype and lump them all together under one banner and i think that's where a lot of the venom is coming from. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
impact Posted January 5, 2008 Share Posted January 5, 2008 all i got to say is.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skumbucket Posted January 5, 2008 Share Posted January 5, 2008 that makes him look so short. is he short? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patron Posted January 5, 2008 Share Posted January 5, 2008 I'd guess he's around 6'1". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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