lexicondevil Posted August 17, 2012 Share Posted August 17, 2012 I don't know if it's really necessary, but I feel the need to say that I normally am perfectly fine with the circumstances surrounding teaching. I started this thread in a fit of frustration after spending 3 days discussing a school closing and having every single conversation with non-teachers end in the fact that somehow teachers are mooching off the community in some capacity. I 100% absolutely LOVE teaching. I look forward to every class (well, not EVERY class EVERY day...) and feel the same way as lexicondevil. I was actually pretty close to being an investment banker.. like 6 weeks away from starting a job, but this was in early 2008 and looking at all that bundling of derivatives struck me as extremely immoral so I bailed and wanted to do something a) productive with my life with meaning c) that I enjoy. Teaching has given me a wide-open door to coaching which would be the only thing, the ONLY thing, I ever quit teaching for (if I could coach as a job itself). For those of you that thought about it and quit: you're really missing out. The one real drawback is that we've become public enemies as a profession somehow. It really is amazingly rewarding to help a kid pass an exam to get out of high school like I did this week, or to see some lesson click, or to watch the class actively debate some issue while you float around the edges and just moderate. Teaching is amazing. MCM, it did sound like you were venting your frustration and we all need to do that. The school on the block where I live just got closed and no one was happy about it. Though now it looks like it may magically reopen as a charter school, just another step for corporations to take over public education. Don't even get me started on that. Anyway, I am sorry you are surrounded by asshats who think teachers are moochers. You know that's ridiculous, so don't let it tear you down. There have been many times that I have wanted to quit throughout the years, but none of it had to do with the kids. It was all the BS created by adults. I had to remind myself why I got into this profession. Have a cool school year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Posted August 17, 2012 Share Posted August 17, 2012 MCM, it did sound like you were venting your frustration and we all need to do that. The school on the block where I live just got closed and no one was happy about it. Though now it looks like it may magically reopen as a charter school, just another step for corporations to take over public education. Don't even get me started on that. Anyway, I am sorry you are surrounded by asshats who think teachers are moochers. You know that's ridiculous, so don't let it tear you down. There have been many times that I have wanted to quit throughout the years, but none of it had to do with the kids. It was all the BS created by adults. I had to remind myself why I got into this profession. Have a cool school year. I think there is nothing wrong with the Charter system if its done correctly. Especially if a Charter system "out performs" the public schools they draw from. Yes, there are corporations who abuse the education system when it comes to setting up Charters, but in some neighborhoods, they're necessary. In some cases, because they're mostly non-union workplaces, they're able to keep teachers from become complacent and becoming part of the problem with the public school system, while still being under the umbrella of a "public school". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suchashorttime Posted August 20, 2012 Share Posted August 20, 2012 i'm super happy to have stumbled upon this conversation here. i didn't know there were that many teachers around these parts. i teacher kindergarten in a... high profile?... district in jersey. i'm really excited to start the new school year; i've been reading teacher books to help get me into a functional mindspace, i've been in my classroom almost every day for the past 2 weeks setting up, helping other teachers and administration get the buildings functional to receive students. the truth is that teachers donate a lot of time to work. we plan outside of our salaried hours, seek professional development (official, or internet / literature) on our free time, go in on weekends and over the summer to prep. the feeling of not being able to get ahead (rent / bills / loans) is endlessly frustrating, but we have a passion to do what we do, and there are a lot of us that really put forth crazy amounts of effort to be good at it. even in kindergarten, students are expected to perform and there needs to be data to prove it. no blocks, no naps, no playing house. it's kinda sad, but there is an insane sense of urgency in getting kids the skills they need earlier to help them make educated and informed decisions later. i digress. it would be cool to start a separate thread for the teachers around here to contribute to. especially on those really shitty days when you come home wondering why you ever got into education to begin with, some likeminded people are an amazing asset. and re: charter schools. the idea of public education is to provide an effective and equitable education for ALL students. charters, by nature, don't necessarily have to provide resources, manpower, or effort to making their education experience either equitable, or for ALL students. there are good ideas under the umbrella of charter schools, but the whole concept needs definition. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Posted August 20, 2012 Share Posted August 20, 2012 i'm super happy to have stumbled upon this conversation here. i didn't know there were that many teachers around these parts. i teacher kindergarten in a... high profile?... district in jersey. i'm really excited to start the new school year; i've been reading teacher books to help get me into a functional mindspace, i've been in my classroom almost every day for the past 2 weeks setting up, helping other teachers and administration get the buildings functional to receive students. the truth is that teachers donate a lot of time to work. we plan outside of our salaried hours, seek professional development (official, or internet / literature) on our free time, go in on weekends and over the summer to prep. the feeling of not being able to get ahead (rent / bills / loans) is endlessly frustrating, but we have a passion to do what we do, and there are a lot of us that really put forth crazy amounts of effort to be good at it. even in kindergarten, students are expected to perform and there needs to be data to prove it. no blocks, no naps, no playing house. it's kinda sad, but there is an insane sense of urgency in getting kids the skills they need earlier to help them make educated and informed decisions later. i digress. it would be cool to start a separate thread for the teachers around here to contribute to. especially on those really shitty days when you come home wondering why you ever got into education to begin with, some likeminded people are an amazing asset. and re: charter schools. the idea of public education is to provide an effective and equitable education for ALL students. charters, by nature, don't necessarily have to provide resources, manpower, or effort to making their education experience either equitable, or for ALL students. there are good ideas under the umbrella of charter schools, but the whole concept needs definition. awesome! my wife has been back in the classroom for two weeks setting up, kids came back today. one of my co-workers kids are in her homeroom and 7th grade classes you're right about charter schools not being able to accommidate everyone, which is why they usually do a lottery system to get into the school, to give everyone a random chance of getting in. where I live, school districts are being forced to close down schools because they just cannot keep them open/finance them. So one charter system here has been coming in, and with the districts approval, re-open those closed down schools for the kids in that area, with the idea that they will then go from the k-8 charter school and feed into the 9-12 SD High School. I would much rather see a charter school come in and use their own money to help keep a local elementary school open, so kids dont have to be crammed in to a school not near them at all with 25+ other kids. maybe this charter school system is different than the rest, but they seem to be doing everything the right way here.. and im only speaking from my observation and experience Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcm1610 Posted August 21, 2012 Author Share Posted August 21, 2012 I'm not at all a fan of charter schools because I philosophically don't agree with the mission of most of them. In my eyes, and not all teachers agree (and few politicians do either), education in this country has historically been about equality in the populist sense. Everyone is supposed to be on equal footing in the classroom. In practice, it hasn't always been so, though. The idea with our education system is that students are supposed to come out well-rounded people with life skills, not narrowly-focused career skills. Education isn't about employment and creating a new tax-payer. That's why you have people fighting to keep the arts, sports, and whatever else in schools. Playing football doesn't give you anything directly, but it makes you a better person. Charter schools generally narrow the focus toward a skill-set - "applied technology", "nursing", etc. They streamline the educational experience so that they only get that track and not the all-encompassing educational experience. It goes hand-in-hand with my belief that college is more than the classroom, so go away to school to learn life skills. I had another point on this track but "Rudy" is on so ... you know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
circuit bored records Posted August 21, 2012 Share Posted August 21, 2012 Yeah but the job market isn't historically what it is at all, even the same as 20 years ago, so shouldn't the education system adjust accordingly? People want experience and expertise over a rich history of higher education. Anyone with a high school diploma and a great-looking portfolio can beat out a guy who just got his college degree for a job because employers want to see applied expertise in a specific field, it goes a long, long way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcm1610 Posted August 21, 2012 Author Share Posted August 21, 2012 That's not true at all. When's the last time you saw someone with just a high school education, even the best, beat out a college graduate? In the grand scheme of things, your education barely means anything - every job that means anything will train you anyway. Each step on the ladder is just another screen for employers to gauge your ability; they'll mold anyone they hire with their own methods anyway. If the education field needs to adjust, it needs to go back into tracking and get away from the "everyone is college bound" dream. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Posted August 21, 2012 Share Posted August 21, 2012 That's not true at all. When's the last time you saw someone with just a high school education, even the best, beat out a college graduate? In the grand scheme of things, your education barely means anything - every job that means anything will train you anyway. Each step on the ladder is just another screen for employers to gauge your ability; they'll mold anyone they hire with their own methods anyway. If the education field needs to adjust, it needs to go back into tracking and get away from the "everyone is college bound" dream. I can tell you a number of people that ive helped, with HS Diplomas, get jobs that were for people with BA's at Banks and Hospitals in Pittsburgh. not the norm at all, I realize that, but it does happen. Its all in how you prepare yourself in that initial interview, if you understand the job you have a better chance of getting it over someone who has the education but doesnt really understand it. and I dont really agree that playing football makes you a better person, I know some football players who are terrible people, just as I know some people who went to a school with barely a sports program who are great people. I definitely dont agree with that idea I see what you're saying about charter schools though, but I cant say that I know of any schools in pittsburgh that are that narrow-focused to one career path, like nursing/medical. There are a couple that are more technology-focused, but they dont push them into going into the tech field, the schools are just more involved with current technology. I think part of it has to do with the recent tech boom in Pittsburgh, there are a lot of startups here now, and google is expanding their offices here with their partnership with CMU. But I dont necessarily think its a bad thing, especially since its not required for all kids to attend that charter school in their district, only those who want to be apart of the lottery, and opt out of some really terrible schools that they would otherwise be attending. Its not like kids who would be going to upper st. clair or Mt. Lebanon (top school districts in Pgh) are the ones going to the charter schools here, its the kids who would be going to poor performing or from poor/low income communities who want a better chance at getting educational attention. im not sure how it is in the Buffalo area, but a lot of the poor neighborhoods are losing their schools here to consolidation with the bigger districts nearby (state budget cuts/no property tax increases), and in doing so, increasing class size and lowering individual attention towards kids. It sucks i dont mean to talk up pittsburgh charter schools that much, I just know about it and want to contribute to this convo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuzzersonKillwell Posted August 21, 2012 Share Posted August 21, 2012 I agree with this. Some kids aren't ready to make that decision or narrow their focus but the ones that are don't have very good options. Charter schools with a specific or semi-specific discipline, or even apprenticeships and trade schools would be a nice addition. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcm1610 Posted August 21, 2012 Author Share Posted August 21, 2012 Not specifically football - but athletics in general. There's a private school around here (Nichols) that requires every student to play two sports at some level from intramural up to varsity. The idea is that a) it's something to get physical exercise learn teamwork c) experience adversity d) gives you an understanding of athletics. This last one is the ultimate goal, as Nichols is a big-money school so they anticipate students ending up in business, and they want well-rounded people leaving the school so when they are in the business world they are able to relate to everyone, and that includes Joe Sixpack who loves football, e.g. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcm1610 Posted August 21, 2012 Author Share Posted August 21, 2012 Charter schools also have the ability to fudge their performance much like private schools. Because they are not required to do everything in their power to keep a kid a la public schools, charter schools keep students on record as long as possible to get state funding (which is bullshit, they should NOT be subsidized) and then the kids who don't make the cut are tossed into the woods so they don't bring down scores so the school can say, "look, we're doing great academically!" Meanwhile, that kid who got tossed with 5 weeks left in school has to transfer to public school which has an entirely different curriculum, and the kid can't even do 6th grade math despite supposedly being a junior. It happens all the time. My gripes with charter schools: -Can't compete on the "whole student" idea because of a lack of resources -Do not provide the same competitive level of education across the board (may do well in specifics, but not overall) -Get public money despite being a private organization -Pay teachers less, so end up with your less-than-great educators -Play a numbers game by removing low-performing students. In theory, they're offering an alternative, but it is entirely on the school's terms and I personally do not feel it does an adequate job. Privatizing the education field is a bad idea, especially when public schools are pushing toward a national curriculum and charter schools will just go do their own thing without oversight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuzzersonKillwell Posted August 22, 2012 Share Posted August 22, 2012 TED just released the Top 20 Most Watched TED Talks. Sir Ken Robinson's talk from 2006 is not only my favorite, but also number one. I'm sure some of you have seen it, but if not, and your interested in the discussion here maybe check it out. Yikes. Tried to embed. Link Here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcm1610 Posted August 24, 2012 Author Share Posted August 24, 2012 I love that one, too. It's fantastic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hudsoncomplex Posted August 24, 2012 Share Posted August 24, 2012 My wife is a teach here in Canada, and it has taken her 6 years to find anything permanent. The government is now trying to change the paygrid, meaning her wage will be frozen for 4 years, and she'll need to take even more university classes to move up the grid. Plus, with the union, the govenment in trying to legislate the teachers to work, instead of a stike happening. I know a lot of people think teachers in Canada have it pretty sweet, but my wife has worked her ass off to get to where she is. No ass kissing like some teachers, just old fasioned hard work, and it's now starting to pay off. I remember her first year teaching. She was teaching a grade 6-7 split (2 COMPLETELY different curiculums) on a 1 year maternity leave. She would go to work at 7am, come home at 4pm and wotk until 9 or 10pm every night doing lesson plans. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Posted August 24, 2012 Share Posted August 24, 2012 My wife is a teach here in Canada, and it has taken her 6 years to find anything permanent. The government is now trying to change the paygrid, meaning her wage will be frozen for 4 years, and she'll need to take even more university classes to move up the grid. Plus, with the union, the govenment in trying to legislate the teachers to work, instead of a stike happening. I know a lot of people think teachers in Canada have it pretty sweet, but my wife has worked her ass off to get to where she is. No ass kissing like some teachers, just old fasioned hard work, and it's now starting to pay off. I remember her first year teaching. She was teaching a grade 6-7 split (2 COMPLETELY different curiculums) on a 1 year maternity leave. She would go to work at 7am, come home at 4pm and wotk until 9 or 10pm every night doing lesson plans. well, canadian labor relations is a bit different than in the states, but if she was on maternity leave, why was she working if she's apart of the teachers union? that completely defeats the point of maternity leave in a benefits package. maternity leave in canada is paid, correct? at least partially? did she decide to not take the full time off? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hudsoncomplex Posted August 24, 2012 Share Posted August 24, 2012 well, canadian labor relations is a bit different than in the states, but if she was on maternity leave, why was she working if she's apart of the teachers union? that completely defeats the point of maternity leave in a benefits package. maternity leave in canada is paid, correct? at least partially? did she decide to not take the full time off? Sorry, I should have been more specific. She was working to cover for someone who was off on maternity leave. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Posted August 24, 2012 Share Posted August 24, 2012 Sorry, I should have been more specific. She was working to cover for someone who was off on maternity leave. AHH!! yeah, that makes more sense! Canadians have some great national perks, paid maternity leave being one of them. something the states do not have (most mat. leave is unpaid, or 60% if you use disability with it). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcm1610 Posted August 24, 2012 Author Share Posted August 24, 2012 6-7 split with two preps doesn't sound that horrible, honestly. I know a guy who has 4 preps this upcoming school year. Hell, I know one guy who is teaching 7th grade US history and AP Euro... it's hard to get more opposite ends of the spectrum there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Posted August 24, 2012 Share Posted August 24, 2012 6-7 split with two preps doesn't sound that horrible, honestly. I know a guy who has 4 preps this upcoming school year. Hell, I know one guy who is teaching 7th grade US history and AP Euro... it's hard to get more opposite ends of the spectrum there. yikes, haha! my wife teaches 7th and 8th grade social studies and gets one prep Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hudsoncomplex Posted August 24, 2012 Share Posted August 24, 2012 yikes, haha! my wife teaches 7th and 8th grade social studies and gets one prep My wife only got one prep when she was teaching 6/7 as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcm1610 Posted August 24, 2012 Author Share Posted August 24, 2012 Just to clear things up, prep is a different course. It could be anything as subtle as regular global 9 compared to global 9 honors, or it could be Economics, Participation in Government, Psychology as three different classes (and preps / lesson plans each day). We get 2 planning periods no matter what, which might also be called preps by some people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuzzersonKillwell Posted September 20, 2012 Share Posted September 20, 2012 Did anyone listen to This American Life this week? Worth a listen if your interested in education and why or how children learn. http://www.thisamericanlife.org/radio-archives/episode/474/back-to-school Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
streetwaves Posted September 20, 2012 Share Posted September 20, 2012 I'm happy to have found this thread. I've been teaching for sixteen years---the last nine have been in NYC. I have a ton to say about how we're currently viewed by the public, the state of public education today and charter schools. Unfortunately, I have to run out the door so stay tuned. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcm1610 Posted September 23, 2012 Author Share Posted September 23, 2012 Cocktease! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Posted September 23, 2012 Share Posted September 23, 2012 lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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