OneThreeOneTwo

Cancel Culture is an implementation (fueled by Big Tech) of a social credit rating system they're currently developing over in China that was also highlighted in a Black Mirror episode a couple seasons back. Scary shit but that's obviously where we're headed.

I think it is so fucking funny this dude is supporting an outspoken liberal artist (Ryan Adams) while also using Biden’s sexual assault accusations as a knock against liberalism while again also supporting someone with sexual abuse allegations against him (Ryan Adams). 
 
Brilliant. 

Oof Timbr. Seems like you had a busy night. nice to see you around.
 
I mean, this isn't the thread for this conversation and its a super weird thing to bring up, but best I can recall it WAS looked into by the media and as they dug into further, the story fell apart. I don't know if its true or not, but it should have been examined by authorities and the media and it appears to have been. 
 
That being said, the media being in the bag for biden is such horseshit. 1. The media would have loved nothing more for a story like that to be true in terms of eyes and ears on them as that story was dovetailing with the end of the impeachment stuff. 2. Why would the media WANT Biden, who will be normal and boring, as opposed to Trump who has 5 stories about him and his antics a day? 
 
But can liberals be hypocrites? Absolutely . So can conservatives and independents. Basically, everyone can be terrible.  
Also, cancel culture isn't real. Like, its not really a thing. Its a buzzy phrase for when someone fucks up and they lose fans. Literally anyone can come back, it really comes down to if a majority of people think you deserve it. And expecting people to be better than what are the current norms is what makes society better. 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
also, super weird to hold Alyssa Milano up as the paragon of liberalism.
 

I think what you're saying is that if someone is truly principled about "cancelling' an artist based on that artist's misconduct, why should it matter whether the music is good or lousy?
 
I think ntslash is candidly acknowledging that it's much easier to stick to your principles if you don't feel like you're sacrificing that much. 

Nah you’re good: https://thehardtimes.net/culture/man-only-listens-to-canceled-bands-on-spotify-so-he-doesnt-support-them-monetarily/

Here is my genuine thoughts and opinion, as a massive RA fan, probably the most influential artist on my life throughout the years. As I put on the first song on the new album, I tried to see how it would make me feel. 
I realized I didn't feel good. Then I realized, people in a position of power, are able to abuse others. Yes, people not in power also abuse, but those in power are more able, and more successful in doing so. Then I thought, how does someone get into power. In the case of artists, it's by supporting there music, buying records, listening, going to shows, buying merch. This gives them the power. If I choose to continue to do this, I give this artist more power to potentially hurt others. That is what doesn't make me feel good. It breaks my heart I had to turn off this album, and I will never be able to listen to all the music thats been such a big part of my life. But I simply cant support this notion.
 
Do what you want with this, but just know, if you contribute, you are likely contributing to the conditions for more abuse of power....

At least it wasn't a good genre of music.
 
(lol, I'm sorry)

This is my point exactly. People are going to make their own decisions based on their own moral compass. We could go on all day with examples. Some people may shun the Beatles music because John Lennon was an admitted domestic abuser. Legions of others haven't let that get in the way of enjoying the Beatles. While I've taken Ryan Adams out of my rotation, I'm not about to get confrontational with peeps who can still get something enjoyable from his records.

I'm 99% sure this isn't true. Feels like I'd get put on a list just for searching it though.
 
The rules are just different for people who have money and fame.

I actually don’t listen to any of those bands anymore. Same goes with Brand New, Michael Jackson, and even idiots like Smash Mouth for playing a show during pandemic.
 
I just find other bands or artists that scratch the itch for me. When I hear songs like “Nobody Girl,” it really gets hard for me to relate to it like I did in the past. Instead, I’ve gotten into bands like centro-matic, or war on drugs, that resonate with me in the same way that his music did.
 
Same goes for, let’s say... “Pretty Young Thing,” by Michael Jackson.  I just can’t. But, instead of separating the music from the artist, I turn to the millions of artists out there NOT guilty of molesting children or soliciting nudes from underage people.
 
Hell, I even bail on bands and artists that behave abusively toward people. Sure, it may not be illegal, but I’m not gonna support and relate to an artist that objectifies his “friends,” dangles fame in exchange for sex (even if they do take the bait, it’s cringey), and belittles them when they don’t reciprocate? It’s just gross, and I can’t help but think about it when he’s crying in his lyrics about “look what I did to youuuu, look what you did to meeee.” 
 
Absolutely to each their own, but I think it’s fascinating to see that fans don’t realize he’s also very abusive toward them. Like someone said earlier, it’s kinda crazy how similar his behavior resembles that giant orange that just lost an election. Maybe there’s something to that?

It'd be rad if the dialogue here could continue the way the last few posts have.
 
I know this is the internet and it's super easy to curse at people and insult them without consequence. But I think it's way more interesting for people to disagree without telling each other to fuck off.
 
Whether one can/should separate art from the artist is a long running issue. I have my own take but it would be the height of hubris for me to get hostile and belittling towards someone whose views don't align exactly with mine.
 
It's not hard for me to understand that some folks can continue to enjoy the music of Ryan Adams notwithstanding reports about him. I also get why the absolutely abhorrent behavior that's been described is an instant "game over" for others.  I believe there's plenty of room for people of good faith to have different views about how this all impacts the music.
 
What I will never understand are the pro-Adams folks that try to excuse his behavior by pointing the finger at the victims of his behavior. I think that is absolutely wretched (yet, I can express this opinion without being uncivil). 
 
The last thing I want to mention concerns the allegations about Adam's online conduct with an underage individual. It was mentioned above (and among many other Adams fans) that the lack of any charges being filed somehow disproves the allegations against him. This is simply not true.
 
The February 2019 New York Times report confirms that Adams had sexually explicit exchanges with a minor. This included Adams exposing himself to her, requesting that she expose herself to him, giving nick names to her body parts, and expressing concern about the minor's mother finding out about their activities. How do we know this? Because the minor has screen grabs of all of this and it was independently verified by the NY Times, which has the receipts. Note that Adams has never denied this reporting. He has only denied knowing that the individual was underage.  The potential criminal charges would require proof that Adams knew he was soliciting a minor. This is not an easy thing to prove, which is certainly a plausible explanation for why charges have not been brought.  In fact, the NY Times reporting makes clear that on more than one occasion, Adams asked her to verify her age and she lied about being 18 (although he never forced the issue by requiring that she show him ID).  Many have been quick to point out that Adams very likely knew she was a minor (she was apparently well known on YouTube as a teenage music prodigy) and that Adams asking about her age was just an attempt to cover himself. 
 
Whatever you believe about Adams's actual knowledge, this uncertainty makes it easier to understand why charges were never brought.  None of this changes the fact that a 40-something man engaged in the conduct described above with someone he knew to be a teenager (and while he was married). Whether or not this rises to the level of chargeable criminal conduct, it is still, in my view, repugnant behavior for which he deserves to be judged.
 
 

You know, you're right, expressing a morally repugnant opinion is totally cool when done anonymously, and anyone who says otherwise is a PC cuck.

Again, predator apologists suck. Fuck you if you align with them. Not gonna change my tune here.
 
but you RA fans here should be used to the same tired bitching and moaning over and over right?

I truly don't understand how anyone can think this way. So in your opinion, having sex with someone who has exhibited red flags disqualifies you from ever criticizing them when they continue to demonstrate coercive, manipulative, abusive behavior, or said behavior worsens? And Phoebe Bridgers is not an "honorable person" because she made a business decision to still open for him/keep working with him for a time, amid clearly conflicted feelings she still had?

What you're essentially saying is that anyone who's ever been in an abusive relationship is complicit in their own abuse if they choose to remain in it. And if there's a power dynamic involved, that makes the person being abused even less "honorable" because their decisions are partially influenced by their livelihood. Is that what you're saying? Because that's how it comes across to every person reading that post, and I just want to give you a chance to not die on this victim blaming hill you've constructed for yourself.

I don't have any interest in listening to the new album regardless of the accusations... my interest in RA peaked at Heartbreaker with fewer results every record until he fell outta rotation completely. 
 
If I did still listen to his music, I don't think my moral  radar would be going wild over RA being a shitty boyfriend/husband or manipulating his way into bed... those things aren't illegal. But soliciting nudes from an underage girl is and that's what makes me say fuck this idiot forever. That's also because I can live without his albums. I still have Bowie and Zeppelin on occasional rotation, so I'm not some crusader of justice, apparently.
 
Not totally interested in "innocent until proven guilty" on this one though since he pulled that bullshit Trump play "stay tuned, all the facts will be revealed when the time is right!" and never mentioned it again.
 
Now assuming EVERYTHING he's been accused of is conjecture until proven otherwise, if we move pass "he used his fame to get laid and then was mean" or whatever and went straight to "he asked for naked pictures from a teenager!", gonna assume a lot more people would be on the same side of the argument on this one. Probably not everyone, though and to those people I sincerely say enjoy your mid-tempo country rock!

I guess the next vinyl color is “invisible.”

Lmao, I got about 3 sentences in before I gave up.
 
go back to 4chan you fuckin mouth breathing victim blaming predator apologist. 
 
edit to say I read the entire thing and wow, what a predictably scummy take. 
 
fuck Ryan adams, fuck his new music, fuck his old music, fuck you too.

Holy victim blaming, Batman. 

I wonder if Ryan is going to sing about his hardships on this album, I can't see myself buying it. 

Honestly, this guy turned his “apology” into some sort of self-obsessed means of turning this into a redemption story.
 
All that to say that, after years of abuse toward the women in his life, I’m surprised fans haven’t seen that they’re also victims of his awful manipulation and they STILL show up for it. Dude threatened to cancel tours if people didn’t sell out his shows, forbade everyone to go to the restroom at a show I attended (or else he’d quit playing), and is generally a fucking crybaby like ALL the fucking time.
 
I really wanted him to come out of this. I really wanted to see him make some right steps toward trying to right the ever-growing list of accusations thrown at him. But he didn’t. He made it about himself, further victimizing the women that he abused for so long. 

I think there are many of us who are or who have been big fans of him for a very long time. I believe everything from the article, and was disappointed to hear about all of the allegations against him. I haven't listened to his music since.  But that doesn't mean he is absolutely beyond redemption. I don't think I will be able to consider him in the same way again, but my hope is he can start an actual journey of self-discovery and understand that he hurt these women, and why that is a problem.   I think about the singer of Pinegrove - he admitted and acknowledged everything he was accused of without laying any guilt or blame on the person accusing, and through a mediator, developed a way in which they could move forward.  Was it perfect? No, but it is still far more than DRA has done, which is nothing.   
 
I am still a big fan of his music, but I don't know that I will be listening to it until he at least owns up to his actions, and has honest discussions about them. Because otherwise this cycle is just going to repeat itself.

I am a big fan of his music. But that doesn't prevent me from being very troubled by his actions. Is that seriously hard to make sense of?

To the extent your question is genuine, I follow musicians on social media to get updates on their musical projects.  That is what being a fan of his music has to do with checking his social media.

Yeah in the UK Grandaddy wasn't a BF title just a regular PO and stores ended up getting them today, so Juno will have them in hand. Just got notification that my order was ready at my local.