MLB Discussion

[crime]

you guys are good sports! i think it helps though that it's the rays and not the yankees or indians or somebody else.

in some respects that's true. but i think what makes it worse that it's the rays are the fans. if there's one thing i can't stand it's fairweather fans and bandwagon jumpers. it seems like the rays have been gaining more fans as the season went on. so many people all of the sudden are tampa fans. if you're a fan of a team you stick with them through thick and thin.

at least boston gave them a good run. and you know epstein is going to make some good deals over the winter (hopefully bring in two good starting pitchers). not to mention it's really a surprise the red sox made it this far with all the injuries they faced this season.

[mcm1610]

What a craptacular world series. The Rays, who have 7 real fans, and the Phillies, who are from Philly are therefore suck by default. I probably won't watch a single inning.

[Guest baseball]

That was a great game. Matt Garza was incredible, he made one bad pitch the whole night.

8th inning was tense, glad Maddon didn't blow the bullpen moves again. I thought Wheeler was going to tank again. You basically have to play every matchup in a game 7 even if you risk having no one left if it goes to extra innings.

I thought the strike 3 call was very close on Drew, but the replay showed he swung.

How good is David Price's stuff too? His 95mph looks effortless. AL east is going to be stacked with power lefties between Kazmir, Lester, and Price.

I picked Boston before the playoffs to go all the way, but the Rays really took it up a notch this series. It was great to watch either way. I think the Philadelphia Tampa series is going to be great. Rays are the better team, but Philadelphia hasn't been challenged much yet, so we'll see.

[kirbypuckett]

GO RAYS!

Hopefully one day the Pirates can do what they are doing!

[jhulud]

Funny that fairweather and bandwagon fans are being mentioned. I was just thinking that this morning. I've already started to see it w/ some people I know. All of a sudden now their Facebook or Myspace pages are saying shit like "Go Rays!" or that they're excited for the World Series. And these are people who I've never seen or known to be into baseball at all.

I hate that shit.

On that same token, people tend to be ignorant when it comes to not knowing shit about their friends. I've been a Red Sox fan since I went to my first game at Fenway while visiting friends in '97. Then suddenly when they won the World Series in '04, people are calling me out and saying that I was a bandwagon fan and all that shit. That really ground my gears.

[mclz]

I grew to really like the Rays in that series and not just a team that i wanted to beat the Red Sox. I am hoping that they win the World Series.

[¯\_(ツ)_/¯]

fuck Philly as a city and every team included.

GO TAMPA BAY!

whats the payroll difference between the two teams? can anyone drum up that info for me?

[Guest baseball]

Red Sox have just as many bandwagon fans of the Rays too. The only difference is the Red Sox already had their fanbase. Tampa has repeatedly run their team poorly until recent years and they're still a new team really. It has to start somewhere. Hopefully they come back next year and it's not like the Marlins.

Here's the payroll figures I found, on opening day of 2008:

Philadelphia: $98,269,881 at #13

Tampa Bay: $43,820,598 at #29 (second to last)

[¯\_(ツ)_/¯]

didn't everyone leave the marlins team that winter though? I don't think that many players are going to leave tampa bay.

[mclz]

didn't everyone leave the marlins team that winter though? I don't think that many players are going to leave tampa bay.

that's if they don't get traded

[flood]

im so psyched the rays won.. the sox have the most jackass fans of any sports team i've ever encountered.

now.. who do i root for... the team that kept the mets out, or the team that kept the red sox out?

[howitgoes]

utley/hamels/howard/victorino FTW. go phillies

[salparadise]

Don't complain about Tampa bandwagon fans until you have to interact with them IN PERSON every single day. I can't believe that's the complaint. What a bunch of ants at a picnic.

This series is sweet to me not only because I am BACK in the Tampa area, but the Phillies spring training stadium is literally ACROSS the street from me. My first baseball memories are of Phillies A games at the old spring training stadium. In fact, coming into Clearwater there is a sign (right next to the voted best beach by Sports Illustrated one) that says "Spring Training Home of The Phillies" which has now been replaced by "GO PHILS!" and a brand new sign that says "GO RAYS!". It's awesome to me. Fuck people that refuse to watch this series, that's some real ass bandwagon fandom.

That being said, Fuck the Yankees.

[crime]

tampa bay and their "fans" should enjoy it while they can because it's not going to last very long. they've built their team on high first round picks (which they won't get next year). as soon as these younger players contracts run out they'll be asking for way more money than tampa can afford. so they'll jump ship to whoever can pay them more and tampa won't have the money to replace them with more high quality players. they also don't have the cash to lock down players for long term deals like boston or new york can. so their team will eventually fall apart. and by eventually i mean in the next couple of seasons.

Fuck people that refuse to watch this series, that's some real ass bandwagon fandom.

that makes no sense what so ever. why would i bother watching the series if i don't give two shits about either of the teams playing in it?

On that same token, people tend to be ignorant when it comes to not knowing shit about their friends. I've been a Red Sox fan since I went to my first game at Fenway while visiting friends in '97. Then suddenly when they won the World Series in '04, people are calling me out and saying that I was a bandwagon fan and all that shit. That really ground my gears.

i've been getting that since 04 too. it's really annoying. i think i get it bad because i live in toronto and everyone thinks just because you live in a city with a ball team you should be a fan of that team.

[sgoodcore]

tampa bay and their "fans" should enjoy it while they can because it's not going to last very long. they've built their team on high first round picks (which they won't get next year). as soon as these younger players contracts run out they'll be asking for way more money than tampa can afford. so they'll jump ship to whoever can pay them more and tampa won't have the money to replace them with more high quality players. they also don't have the cash to lock down players for long term deals like boston or new york can. so their team will eventually fall apart. and by eventually i mean in the next couple of seasons.

And in a nutshell, that's everything that's wrong with the current state of the MLB. In this case, the Rays find and raise the players to be good major league ball players and because they don't spend like a drunken sailor on leave, they're screwed.

[crime]

tampa bay and their "fans" should enjoy it while they can because it's not going to last very long. they've built their team on high first round picks (which they won't get next year). as soon as these younger players contracts run out they'll be asking for way more money than tampa can afford. so they'll jump ship to whoever can pay them more and tampa won't have the money to replace them with more high quality players. they also don't have the cash to lock down players for long term deals like boston or new york can. so their team will eventually fall apart. and by eventually i mean in the next couple of seasons.

And in a nutshell, that's everything that's wrong with the current state of the MLB. In this case, the Rays find and raise the players to be good major league ball players and because they don't spend like a drunken sailor on leave, they're screwed.

it's also in part the "fans" fault though. you've got a team who's finishing the seaosn in first place for the first time in franchise history and they still can't sell out a ball game.

i'd also put that on the players. if these young guys really cared about the game and their team they'd take a pay cut and stay put. but you're right in this day and age it's all about which team can pay the top players more than the next. it's a shame that you only see players stick around on a team for 8+ years these days unless they've signed some 10 year $50billion contract.

[sgoodcore]

And in a nutshell, that's everything that's wrong with the current state of the MLB. In this case, the Rays find and raise the players to be good major league ball players and because they don't spend like a drunken sailor on leave, they're screwed.

it's also in part the "fans" fault though. you've got a team who's finishing the seaosn in first place for the first time in franchise history and they still can't sell out a ball game.

i'd also put that on the players. if these young guys really cared about the game and their team they'd take a pay cut and stay put. but you're right in this day and age it's all about which team can pay the top players more than the next. it's a shame that you only see players stick around on a team for 8+ years these days unless they've signed some 10 year $50billion contract.

Very difficult to blame players, who's shelf-life is only about 15 years, to not make as much as they possibly can in that time.

[¯\_(ツ)_/¯]

we have no record of what Tampa will do when their players come up for contract because they've NEVER been in a situation like this. First winning record, first world series appearance in their 10 year history. who knows, maybe they will spend the money. they're only a $43mil team right now, they have PLENTLY of room to grow. Milwaukee went from 33 to 74 and they are considered to be th 2nd smallest market in the sport... Tampa will be able to afford to keep many of their young talent for a few more years.

[crime]

that's debatable. that's still putting money in front of the game. if you have a group like tampa bay who have shown that they play great baseball together, if you really enjoyed the game and played for the love of it wouldn't you take a pay cut to stay on that team so you can continue your success? or would you whore your talents off to the highest bidder? if i was a player being on a team that did well would be much more of a reward than getting the biggest pay cheque i possibly could.

[sgoodcore]

that's debatable. that's still putting money in front of the game. if you have a group like tampa bay who have shown that they play great baseball together, if you really enjoyed the game and played for the love of it wouldn't you take a pay cut to stay on that team so you can continue your success? or would you whore your talents off to the highest bidder? if i was a player being on a team that did well would be much more of a reward than getting the biggest pay cheque i possibly could.

But the team also has to pony up for something close to your worth and make sure you're compensate for a good long time.

[hickey]

I'm a lifelong/outspoken Red Sox fan. As such, I was complaining about the Rays fans to my wife during every game of this series. Asking how they can be going so crazy over an expansion team that has no real history. Yes, I get that the team is more than 10 years old now, but there are no real stories there.

But then my wife raised a really good point and made me see things very differently. She simply said that since the Rays are such a young team the fans that have been with them since day one are a part of their history and have been there every step of the way. It kind of made me rethink my position. It would be really cool to be a part of something from its start and see the team you watched grow reach the world series.

[mediocore]

Here's an updated roster chart for the Rays moving forward. I found a better source that takes into account arbitration eligibility, etc.

POST SEASON ROSTER ONLY

FA in 2009

Cliff Floyd ($2.75MM club option)

Trever Miller ($2MM club option)

Rocco Baldelli (club option declined)

Grant Balfour

Chad Bradford

Gabe Gross

2010

Aki Iwamura ($4.25MM club option)

2011

Carlos Pena

Dioner Navarro

Fernando Perez

2012

Jason Bartlett

Edwin Jackson

Dan Wheeler

2013

J.P. Howell

Scott Kazmir

Andy Sonnanstine

B.J. Upton

Ben Zobrist

2014

Willy Aybar

Matt Garza

2015

David Price

James Shields

2016

none

2017

Evan Longoria

[crime]

we have no record of what Tampa will do when their players come up for contract because they've NEVER been in a situation like this. First winning record, first world series appearance in their 10 year history. who knows, maybe they will spend the money. they're only a $43mil team right now, they have PLENTLY of room to grow. Milwaukee went from 33 to 74 and they are considered to be th 2nd smallest market in the sport... Tampa will be able to afford to keep many of their young talent for a few more years.

there will be another team willing to spend more on them. hisstory of the league really suggests that they won't be able to keep this team together.

[crime]

The Rays aren't in the same situation the Marlins were in after their successful postseason runs. Their minor league system is stacked with replacements for guys, so as long as they re-sign Upton (which I think they will) they'll be okay. Most of the FA's in 2008 and 2009 will be cheap to retain (the exceptions being Upton and Garza).

The Rays don't really have to make many "tough" decisions for a few years. They hold a shitload of club options and don't have to deal with any player options.

POST SEASON ROSTER ONLY

2008

Carl Crawford (club options in '09 and '10)

Cliff Floyd (club option in '09)

Rocco Baldelli (club options in '09, '10, '11)

Trever Miller (club option in '09)

Jason Bartlett

Gabe Gross

Edwin Jackson

Dioner Navarro

B.J. Upton

Matt Garza

Willy Aybar

J.P. Howell

Andy Sonnanstine

Ben Zobrist

Fernando Perez

Grant Balfour

2009

Troy Percival

Chad Bradford

Aki Iwamura (club option in '10)

2010

Carlos Pena

Dan Wheeler (club option in '11)

2011

Scott Kazmir (club option in '12)

James Shields (club options in '12, '13, '14)

2012

David Price

2013

Evan Longoria (club options in '14, '15, '16)

wow. i had no clue that they had so many guys going up for free agency at the end of the season. i can see other teams wanting to pay big bucks for Navarro, Upton and Garza. boston's going to be in the market for a new catcher and they need starting pitching (as does new york ... who also needs some outfielders). so i wouldn't be surprised if the core of the rays end up playing for different teams next year.

[mediocore]

wow. i had no clue that they had so many guys going up for free agency at the end of the season. i can see other teams wanting to pay big bucks for Navarro, Upton and Garza. boston's going to be in the market for a new catcher and they need starting pitching (as does new york ... who also needs some outfielders). so i wouldn't be surprised if the core of the rays end up playing for different teams next year.

The source I was using was outdated -- a lot of club options have already been picked up and it didn't take into account arbitration eligibility, etc. I'm updating it now.