jerseydave77 Posted February 7, 2013 Share Posted February 7, 2013 Braun's excuse is absolutely NOT plausible. What person at the top their profession turns to a quack for "Expert Advice" on a career-threatening matter? Who pays that illegitimate scientist $30,000 when you can get a real expert for $10,000? Finally, back to real experts - he had cash, he could have gotten the advice of a respected expert and scientist. One published in journals who resides at a prestigious institution. It's all bullshit. Sorry, it doesn't pass the smell test for a second. This would be like me needing a good lawyer and instead of reaching out to someone with a reputation I call the guy who's mug is on the billboard with gaudy messages about getting me out of a speeding ticket. You think I'm putting my life in the hands of an ambulance chaser? Well that's what Braun is essentially claiming he did by consulting Bosch on a matter of science. Those samples weren't tampered with. To have tampered with both the A & B sample and have them come out with the same levels while still showing no signs of the seal being broken is implausible. Braun got off on a technicality from an arbitrator that MLB won't even release because they are probably too embarrassed to have it read by anyone with half a brain. I know there are Braun fans on here but I'm just done with the guy. chamb117 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sjb2k1 Posted February 7, 2013 Share Posted February 7, 2013 francisco cervelli being on that list makes me sad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Posted February 7, 2013 Share Posted February 7, 2013 He denied it in the media, but "I never used" was not at all a part of his appeal, as far as I know no one knows because the case is sealed, but, his appeal was not on the grounds of the test, but the chain of custody. you dont enter evidence, or open a can of worms, that are completely unnecessary to the argument in arbitration. thats not the argument, so you dont need to enter facts to support it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Posted February 7, 2013 Share Posted February 7, 2013 Braun's excuse is absolutely NOT plausible. What person at the top their profession turns to a quack for "Expert Advice" on a career-threatening matter? Who pays that illegitimate scientist $30,000 when you can get a real expert for $10,000? Finally, back to real experts - he had cash, he could have gotten the advice of a respected expert and scientist. One published in journals who resides at a prestigious institution. It's all bullshit. Sorry, it doesn't pass the smell test for a second. This would be like me needing a good lawyer and instead of reaching out to someone with a reputation I call the guy who's mug is on the billboard with gaudy messages about getting me out of a speeding ticket. You think I'm putting my life in the hands of an ambulance chaser? Well that's what Braun is essentially claiming he did by consulting Bosch on a matter of science. Those samples weren't tampered with. To have tampered with both the A & B sample and have them come out with the same levels while still showing no signs of the seal being broken is implausible. Braun got off on a technicality from an arbitrator that MLB won't even release because they are probably too embarrassed to have it read by anyone with half a brain. I know there are Braun fans on here but I'm just done with the guy. he didnt pay Bosch anything, apparently, his team of lawyers contacted a number of doctors during his appeal process to use them as consultants, and Bosch was not chosen, but still felt that Braun owed him that consultation money for just talking with him. to my knowledge, reading up on this situation, no money was paid to Bosch, but he felt he was owed it, which is why RB 20-30k is on that list of outstanding money owed. they DID pay "legit" doctors to be witnesses in his appeal case, but due to the confidentiality of the entire case, they may not be allowed to show the proof. MLB cant release the arbitrators binding decision because they're not allowed too. has absolutely nothing to do with embarrassment, it has everything to do with the legal rights of the MLB/MLBPA arbitration process. EVERYONE forgets that had the appeal process been respected in the first place, NONE OF THIS WOULD EVER HAVE BEEN KNOWN. Someone broke the rules, leaked the test results PRIOR to Braun getting an opportunity to decide to appeal it, thus, creating the guilty in the court of public opinion that he'll forever be in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Posted February 7, 2013 Share Posted February 7, 2013 Braun apparently consulted with almost a page worth of doctors during his appeal process, with Bosch being one of them, according to Will Carroll. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Posted February 7, 2013 Share Posted February 7, 2013 http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/brauns-explanation-on-biogenesis-is-entirely-plausible/ Why Bosch? Why use someone who’d already been linked to banned substances? I don’t know for sure, but it makes sense to me to his lawyers would consult with someone who had experience with a player (Manny Ramirez) who had tested positive and had been given a 50-game suspension. If you’re a lawyer defending a client accused of participating in a drug cartel conspiracy, you want to consult with people who knows how drug cartels work. Sure, there are law enforcement experts that you’ll want to testify for the client, but you also would like to consult with former drug cartel members. It’s entirely possible that Bosch had information from Ramirez’s situation that was useful to Braun’s lawyers in preparing their appeal. And what of $20,000 to $30,000 that Braun’s attorneys allegedly still owed Bosch? Isn’t that a lot of money to pay a consultant to answer some questions about T/E ratios and tampering with samples? No, it’s not. My guess is that Braun’s appeal cost upwards of a million dollars. Twenty or thirty thousand dollars for a consultant is a drop in the bucket. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jerseydave77 Posted February 7, 2013 Share Posted February 7, 2013 I don't care whether it was supposed to be confidential, it leaked, it might be wrong but any sympathy I had for Braun disappeared when he himself decided to unjustly try the sample taker in public. It was classless how he handled it. Baseball, and sports in general, have gotten to a point that spin can't be taken as fact. They knowingly consult an "expert" linked to known steroid cheat? They are either dumb as bricks for attaching themselves to a doctor that openly advertised HGH or they are spinning this as hard as they can. The steroid era of Baseball hurt me so badly as a fan that my normal "innocent until proven guilty" approach to life just doesn't apply to sports anymore. Honest question: anyone have a good example of a player implicated that proved the allegations false? I'm thinking on this myself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Posted February 7, 2013 Share Posted February 7, 2013 if anyone won an appeal, no one would know because the case would be sealed frmo public knowledge Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travis Posted February 7, 2013 Author Share Posted February 7, 2013 King Felix with a 7 year $175M extension with the M's. The Tigers and Dodgers are way bummed. What the hell are Verlander and Kershaw's next contracts going to look like now? I assume the Yankees are too since they want to trade for him but are trying to cut down on salary. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Posted February 7, 2013 Share Posted February 7, 2013 seriously, Verlander and Kershaw are going to get over 200 million now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jerseydave77 Posted February 7, 2013 Share Posted February 7, 2013 If anyone really won an appeal their egos would leak that shit all over the press if they were even for a second under suspicion. Anyway, it will continue to play out. It all sucks - feels like this happening right at the head of Pitchers and Catchers has once again soured baseball a bit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebiglebowski Posted February 7, 2013 Share Posted February 7, 2013 Anyone hear the details of Helton's midnight ride? Crashed into a median and stopped to get lottery tickets before he got pulled over. What a tard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jhook Posted February 7, 2013 Share Posted February 7, 2013 King Felix with a 7 year $175M extension with the M's. Well this pretty much kills any chance of him being traded. Hopefully he lives up to the hype for the next 7 years so they are not saddled with a bad contract like the Yankees with A-Rod or the Rockies with Drunky Helton. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Posted February 7, 2013 Share Posted February 7, 2013 Well this pretty much kills any chance of him being traded. Hopefully he lives up to the hype for the next 7 years so they are not saddled with a bad contract like the Yankees with A-Rod or the Rockies with Drunky Helton. except he's 5 years younger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebiglebowski Posted February 7, 2013 Share Posted February 7, 2013 I was thinking about that deal -- I think there is a lot of evidence to show that teams can win without absolute top tier talent. The NL wild card has won a bunch of World Series lately. Baltimore and the Rays have competed against monster payrolls (Longoria and Price are pretty close to top tier guys but Balt especially). But then, I wonder if the team makes more money having a superstud? Sell more jerseys, attract more fans on the days he pitches? I'm just wondering if they make that deal thinking "it keeps our fans happy, but we could have added 3 or 4 good players that would have helped us more if we only wanted to win regardless of ticket sales". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jerseydave77 Posted February 7, 2013 Share Posted February 7, 2013 Helton's mug shot is a real keeper: jhook, ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ and chamb117 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jhook Posted February 7, 2013 Share Posted February 7, 2013 I don't blame the M's for doing it. 7 years is a long time, especially for a pitcher. I just hope he holds up for the sake of the team. It is also proof that they are willing to spend and will maybe help bring in some other talent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lemongoat Posted February 7, 2013 Share Posted February 7, 2013 All Helton was trying to do was buy some lottery tickets. Big deal! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebiglebowski Posted February 7, 2013 Share Posted February 7, 2013 All Helton was trying to do was buy some lottery tickets. Big deal! Probably made a $100 million over his career. He really gonna be elated with a $500 scratch off? It's just kinda weird. Whatever, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travis Posted February 7, 2013 Author Share Posted February 7, 2013 Probably made a $100 million over his career. He really gonna be elated with a $500 scratch off? It's just kinda weird. Whatever, though. Looks like he's made about $160M. An article I just read said he signed a $141.5M contract in '01 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sjb2k1 Posted February 8, 2013 Share Posted February 8, 2013 verlander's probably the only guy i'd give that kinda money to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lemongoat Posted February 8, 2013 Share Posted February 8, 2013 Yahoo fantasy baseball is opened up. I imagine the board will get a league going? I always have a hard time finding 11 from real life Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebiglebowski Posted February 8, 2013 Share Posted February 8, 2013 verlander's probably the only guy i'd give that kinda money to. Kershaw is 5 years younger and hasn't had an ERA over 3 in the last 4 years. The NL/AL thing is always overblown. It's a factor, but not a huge one. They are essentially equal pitchers in my mind, with Verlander more likely to throw an extra 20 innings over the year. But a lot of that is just managerial style, not necessarily reflective of the pitcher. Those dudes are both incredible. There have been talks the Tigers might reup with JV before his contract ends. Probably something like 7 years, $200 million is my guess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chamb117 Posted February 8, 2013 Share Posted February 8, 2013 kershaw > felix = verlander. verlander gets too much credit for his win totals, which isn't entirely in his control, and his ratios are basically identical to felix's, both career and year to year. it's hard to think kershaw could get better but if he improves his walk rate he's going to be legendary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebiglebowski Posted February 8, 2013 Share Posted February 8, 2013 Well with JV he had some good years previously, but the last 2 is when he really put it together and took that step up to elite. So it comes down to how far back you go in grading a player. Over the last 6 years have JV and Felix been pretty equal? Yeah. If you give more weight to recent performance (the last 2 years) JV is clearly better. I know I said the AL/NL thing is overblown but you do have to give JV some credit for facing a DH instead of a pitcher (not that it adds a full point onto ERA, but it could easily add .25). I think he has been a little bit better than Kershaw over the last 2 years. Make the period of time their full careers so far, though, and Kershaw is the best of the bunch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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