Record Labels Keep Finding New Ways To Fuck You

[jhulud]

Give someone some internet space and they get on their soapbox:

http://blog.swanfungus.com/2008/04/record-labels-keep-finding-new-ways-to.html

[andywax]

I think most of the comments on his blog say it all. Most labels are just barely breaking even on vinyl...if that.

[heavyheavylowlow]

Did a record label beat him up or something, he seems quite venemous towards indie labels that are always scraping by, how about planting some of that spite on the real labels that are fucking up the music industry, the majors.

[Snaggle Von Swift]

that article is pretty bad.

[hyperrealist]

andywax - True. Also, Matador does great vinyl and its worth every penny.

[rhythmgtr5]

what documentary is he referring to?

[casey]

andywax - True. Also, Matador does great vinyl and its worth every penny.

Ditto for Merge & Sub Pop

Also, I have a hard time being compelled by someone whose default adjective is "retarded"

[xjustinxschwierx]

the Mission of Burma re-issues are on 2xLP 180 gram vinyl and come with a DVD. So I'll go and defend those to the death....not to mention the covers sleeves are practically books...there's a defined book-like spine to them.

They come with a FULL COLOR 11x11 stapled booklet insert too.

They're the nicest, well constructed record packages I've ever bought. I'll take pictures if anyone wants to see what I mean.

edit: forgot they came with download codes too.

[cadetapplesauce]

i have yet to be disappointed by a package put together by matador. can't say the same for hydra head or southern lord, though. reissues and represses aren't the problem. variations, maybe. but saying that certain records shouldn't be repressed because it devalues the music is just absurd. if the label isn't paying the artist, then you have a point. but don't go blaming the resurgence in vinyl collecting for "hurting" consumers and devaluing the music. if you pay $18+ for a brand new record, you may as well have high expectations for it. if you don't want the vinyl, fine. no one is forcing you to buy every variation. if the labels are making any profit at all, then by all means, support the label. the label supports that band. every penny counts. if you want the band to keep recording music and keep touring, then don't complain about a few extra bucks. he obviously knows that it's a hard time economically, but he's not the one shoved in a van with instruments, driving across the country, playing shows, and trying to make a living off of it.

if labels can cash in, and are fair to the artist, then by all means, make all the variations you want. if you're not down with it, then just don't buy it. simple.

[numanoid]

That's one "retarded" article! It sounds like he missed out on some $35 Boris record that ended up selling for $300 on ebay and now he's pissed. If the labels wanted to make a shitload of money, as he puts it, they would do ebay exclusives. Imagine if there were only 300 of each new Jay Reatard single and they were auction only. Now that would be bullshit.

If a label is going to use an artistic format, why not make every release limited and different? I'd be more inclined to buy a limited edition color re-issue than some black one that is IDENTICAL to the first pressing that was on black (I'm talking Shape of Punk to Come, specifically). Hell, even those black ones were going for $300 because people wanted them after being out of print for so long.

It's a collection. If you don't wanna spend the money, don't. What a baby!

[wannabepunktony]

Most labels are just barely breaking even on vinyl...if that.

Really? I've never pressed my own record, but I look into it every couple months and it seems you could do quite well for yourself putting out vinyl IF you sold out of what you pressed in a short amount of time.

[Guest vito]

andywax - True. Also, Matador does great vinyl and its worth every penny.

Ditto for Merge & Sub Pop

Also, I have a hard time being compelled by someone whose default adjective is "retarded"

Matador usually presses at RTI don't they? Definitely worth the money.

[xjustinxschwierx]

Ditto for Merge & Sub Pop

Also, I have a hard time being compelled by someone whose default adjective is "retarded"

Matador usually presses at RTI don't they? Definitely worth the money.

I don't know about Matador(I wouldn't be surprised) but Touch and Go presses through RTI.

...and RTI also doesn't take new customers, because they're consistently busy with their current customer base.

[Guest vito]

Three Lobed uses RTI as well. Always top notch releases.

[andywax]

Most labels are just barely breaking even on vinyl...if that.

Really? I've never pressed my own record, but I look into it every couple months and it seems you could do quite well for yourself putting out vinyl IF you sold out of what you pressed in a short amount of time.

If you sold out of an entire pressing at retail value, then yeah, you could make some money. It also matters how many records you press.

[cadetapplesauce]

Matador usually presses at RTI don't they? Definitely worth the money.

I don't know about Matador(I wouldn't be surprised) but Touch and Go presses through RTI.

...and RTI also doesn't take new customers, because they're consistently busy with their current customer base.

matador left a comment on this

[email protected] said...

Oh, please. We barely make any profit on vinyl. We press out RTI on HQ180 vinyl, and manufacture gatefold sleeves at Stoughton - the costs are huge. Those Burma records - the originals of which are extremely hard to find btw! - were remastered all-analog, live from the original master tapes, without a computer or any digital processing, at Sterling. Do you have any idea how time-consuming and expensive that is? In addition, there are extra tracks not on the original vinyl. We are actually LOSING money on the Burma reissues - they're a total labor of love. Sorry, but you have no idea what you're talking about.

[playshisrecords]

this kid is really funny.

[thischarmingham]

I think he's way off base on some of his examples but I think the he's very right about labels taking advantage of the collectability aspect a bit too much. I'm crazy gulity of that I guess on the Cute Lepers album but it's the only one of my 30 or so releases that I've done something like that. You've got labels out there who's first pressings of everything consist of 5 to 10 different varietys. People can collect what they want, I won't fault the buyer for anything, however I think you run the risk of burning people out and killing the whole thing. I watched it happen with comic books in the early/mid 90's with all the variant covers and what not. People were way in to it at first and then it just dropped the fuck off. Anyone remember when practically everything on Valiant was worth $50? You can find all of it at half priced books around the country for $1 now.

[jailhouse]

Also realize, that record labels saving grace in the past was compact disc. The money we all used to make on cd's is no longer there.

Vinyl cost used to be able to be kept lower, because the profit loss for vinyl was made up for by the increased profit margin of the cd format.

I don't know about anybody else, but cd's are barely moving for us. We have plans for a couple cd's within the year, but it just isn't justifiable anymore.

I would be willing to bet that guy reads Maximum Rock n Roll front to back every month, and is convinced that all music should be given away.

Fuckin idiot.

By the way, I liked this quote in the comments.

"keep vinyl alive buy second hand"

How asinine is that??

[alphanumerica]

I remember the comics. Still have my Harbinger Zero. The mail away from the coupons from the first six issues.

I've said it before, Viny increases are needed so people that are spending there time putting it out can actually buy themselves food. I agree that a lot of labels are exploting the variation thing but I think it's just so they can stay alive.

It's the same with local shows. I've been paying 5 bucks for over 15 years. These bands can't even pay for gas or food.

I see what this person is saying, I just don't think they get the why?

If anything, I think that these labels might be fucking themselves. Variation collecting is going down cause it's just too much. Just like the comics.

People think there is a lot more money than there is to be made in vinyl.

It seems some labels are exagerating the variation thing to stop this as well. No Idea comes to mind. don't know if it is their intent. but the am! thing is dead. Every recent press has a variation limited to like 2 or 3 now. This makes it impossible to collect and stops people from going crazy. And Var made comments about how silly he thinks it is.

[hyperrealist]

You've got labels out there who's first pressings of everything consist of 5 to 10 different varietys. People can collect what they want, I won't fault the buyer for anything, however I think you run the risk of burning people out and killing the whole thing.

There are a handful of records out there, take the Torche 10" for example, where a dozen different colors exist but rather than collect every variation I just buy the one I think looks coolest. I think its nice to have options. If you want to buy every color, thats fine too. I don't think the labels will burn anyone out - I think the obsessive record buyers run the risk of burning themselves out. I personally don't want to run more than one color (other than black, of course) in the same pressing (although I did do two colors on the Lords/In Tongues split 7").

It definitely happened with comic books. Everyone got so caught up in buying variants and chromium covers until so many were printed that they all became worthless. Hopefully the record buyers are different in that the majority aren't speculators hoping to be sitting on a goldmine in a few years, but are fans of music and the vinyl LP instead.

[kurtz]

Not to hijack the thread, but since a few people brought up Valiant comics... The only Valiant comics that are worthless are the ones from around 1992-1994 when they were printing 100,000-350,000 copies (only the top 5 selling comics these days break 100,000). The earlier Valiant issues as well as the later issues all hold their value pretty well (although not as high as they once were) since the print runs were much smaller, around 50,000 and under. I am a Valiant comics collector, so I just thought I would clear that up.

The comparison to the comic industry back then is still a valid point though.

[jailhouse]

I've said it before, Vinyl increases are needed so people that are spending there time putting it out can actually buy themselves food.

It's the same with local shows. I've been paying 5 bucks for over 15 years. These bands can't even pay for gas or food.

People think there is a lot more money than there is to be made in vinyl.

I almost got crucified on another board for saying damn near the exact thing.

I can't imagine anyone actually starting an indie record label with the thought of a "lucrative career". It's an extremely poor career choice, and the sole reasons for most people even starting labels is for the love of the music, and a contribution to the scene.

If anything, labels have been ripping themselves off, by refusing to take a paycheck for themselves so they can put out another record, or moving back in with parents so they can afford to put out a record.

And now you have people raising hell, like that one asshole on here, because he felt he was entitled to a free mp3 download.

Anyone who is pissed about high vinyl prices, or the way labels work, should simply start their own and then they can bitch about how much other labels are ripping everybody off.

Lot's of people have given up good decent jobs to do this stuff, in addition to getting business loans etc, the shit is not cheap.

People say "well it only cost 4 bucks a piece to press a record" they don't take into account the recording, the mastering, the promotion, the tour support(if any) after all is said and done, for a new pressing, it can easily cost up to 10 bucks a piece for a vinyl only release, and then people bitch because it cost them 12!?

Not to mention, that if your distributed by any of the "larger" distributors, the label payout for vinyl is typically around 5.50-6.25 with a 20-25% hold for returns.

And after that it's available everywhere digitally for free half the time. And if it's not, you get people demanding that you make it available for free, or that they are entitled to a free cd of the record.

It's gotten ridiculous, and out of hand.

Granted it's probably 1/20 people that actually get so worked up about labels "ripping them off". But it is still something you hear all the time.

People need to wise the fuck up, before they start talking shit about independent business that they know nothing about.

I won't even buy a starbucks coffee anymore, because I think "that's 3.50 that could go towards an ad'

As a career choice, I would be much better off working at 7-11 for 10 bucks an hour than running a record label, but for better or worse, indie label owners chose a different less lucrative career path, simply because it's something they love, and have a genuine passion for.

How people can justify shitting on those principals are beyond me.

If people want to bitch, do it to Epitaph, or EMI or something, keep the poor labels, who actually do it for the music out of their little bitch tyrades.

Sorry for the soapbox :'(

[xjustinxschwierx]

I've said it before, Vinyl increases are needed so people that are spending there time putting it out can actually buy themselves food.

It's the same with local shows. I've been paying 5 bucks for over 15 years. These bands can't even pay for gas or food.

People think there is a lot more money than there is to be made in vinyl.

I almost got crucified on another board for saying damn near the exact thing.

I can't imagine anyone actually starting an indie record label with the thought of a "lucrative career". It's an extremely poor career choice, and the sole reasons for most people even starting labels is for the love of the music, and a contribution to the scene.

If anything, labels have been ripping themselves off, by refusing to take a paycheck for themselves so they can put out another record, or moving back in with parents so they can afford to put out a record.

And now you have people raising hell, like that one asshole on here, because he felt he was entitled to a free mp3 download.

Anyone who is pissed about high vinyl prices, or the way labels work, should simply start their own and then they can bitch about how much other labels are ripping everybody off.

Lot's of people have given up good decent jobs to do this stuff, in addition to getting business loans etc, the shit is not cheap.

People say "well it only cost 4 bucks a piece to press a record" they don't take into account the recording, the mastering, the promotion, the tour support(if any) after all is said and done, for a new pressing, it can easily cost up to 10 bucks a piece for a vinyl only release, and then people bitch because it cost them 12!?

Not to mention, that if your distributed by any of the "larger" distributors, the label payout for vinyl is typically around 5.50-6.25 with a 20-25% hold for returns.

And after that it's available everywhere digitally for free half the time. And if it's not, you get people demanding that you make it available for free, or that they are entitled to a free cd of the record.

It's gotten ridiculous, and out of hand.

Granted it's probably 1/20 people that actually get so worked up about labels "ripping them off". But it is still something you hear all the time.

People need to wise the fuck up, before they start talking shit about independent business that they know nothing about.

I won't even buy a starbucks coffee anymore, because I think "that's 3.50 that could go towards an ad'

As a career choice, I would be much better off working at 7-11 for 10 bucks an hour than running a record label, but for better or worse, indie label owners chose a different less lucrative career path, simply because it's something they love, and have a genuine passion for.

How people can justify shitting on those principals are beyond me.

If people want to bitch, do it to Epitaph, or EMI or something, keep the poor labels, who actually do it for the music out of their little bitch tyrades.

Sorry for the soapbox :'(

couldn't have said it better.

[runforcover]

I almost got crucified on another board for saying damn near the exact thing.

I can't imagine anyone actually starting an indie record label with the thought of a "lucrative career". It's an extremely poor career choice, and the sole reasons for most people even starting labels is for the love of the music, and a contribution to the scene.

If anything, labels have been ripping themselves off, by refusing to take a paycheck for themselves so they can put out another record, or moving back in with parents so they can afford to put out a record.

And now you have people raising hell, like that one asshole on here, because he felt he was entitled to a free mp3 download.

Anyone who is pissed about high vinyl prices, or the way labels work, should simply start their own and then they can bitch about how much other labels are ripping everybody off.

Lot's of people have given up good decent jobs to do this stuff, in addition to getting business loans etc, the shit is not cheap.

People say "well it only cost 4 bucks a piece to press a record" they don't take into account the recording, the mastering, the promotion, the tour support(if any) after all is said and done, for a new pressing, it can easily cost up to 10 bucks a piece for a vinyl only release, and then people bitch because it cost them 12!?

Not to mention, that if your distributed by any of the "larger" distributors, the label payout for vinyl is typically around 5.50-6.25 with a 20-25% hold for returns.

And after that it's available everywhere digitally for free half the time. And if it's not, you get people demanding that you make it available for free, or that they are entitled to a free cd of the record.

It's gotten ridiculous, and out of hand.

Granted it's probably 1/20 people that actually get so worked up about labels "ripping them off". But it is still something you hear all the time.

People need to wise the fuck up, before they start talking shit about independent business that they know nothing about.

I won't even buy a starbucks coffee anymore, because I think "that's 3.50 that could go towards an ad'

As a career choice, I would be much better off working at 7-11 for 10 bucks an hour than running a record label, but for better or worse, indie label owners chose a different less lucrative career path, simply because it's something they love, and have a genuine passion for.

How people can justify shitting on those principals are beyond me.

If people want to bitch, do it to Epitaph, or EMI or something, keep the poor labels, who actually do it for the music out of their little bitch tyrades.

Sorry for the soapbox :'(

couldn't have said it better.

100000% correct.