Are $20 LP and $30 2xLP list prices bullshit?

[kouka]

Quality vinyl pressing and printing costs have risen dramatically over the past few years and we realized that we were losing money on every lp we were selling. We press at RTI on their premium grade 180 gram vinyl, HQ-180, and we print heavy duty jackets, many of them gatefold, at Stoughton. They are both the best in the country and they are both expensive. Inserts, printed innersleeves, and freight to get these records from California to New York, are on top of that. We either had to raise our prices or compromise our quality. It's worth mentioning that our prices are competitive with other labels who do RTI HQ-180 and this kind of packaging - check out the records from audiophile labels on sale at Music Direct, which retail for $35 for a single LP.

No Idea: single LP (180-gram)- $10, so are they trying to say the quality is TWICE as nice? Bullocks.

like someone else also mentioned, there's a reason why I have a lot of No Idea releases, and none on Matador. Did you hear that, Mata-whore? Suck it!

[pjaicomo]

Look, here is the bottom line:

Who the fuck cares about how big or small the label is? We are the consumers. All that matters is the following question. Is $20 too much for a single 12" record.

I don't give 2 fucks about how much promotion or labor costs the company has. That isn't my concern. If they can't make it cheaper, they can't get me to buy it. When I am at a record shop and I pick up an LP with a regular sleeve and it says $21.99, it is going right back into the bin.

[melikecheese]

I was happy to find that Used Kids happen to order a ton of matador releases prior to this so I was able to pick them up from the store for $12 today. WOOOOT

To answer Mr Jaicomo

It all depends on the record. I don't like buying 20 dollar records but sometimes i do. I might really like the band so I really want it. I also buy a lot of records that are made in other countries so I often have to pay high shipping or high markup in store, I would imagine that point is something all of us are affected buy, not just those outside the US.

But man I gotta agree with you, if I pull up a single LP in a regular sleeve, odds are I wont be taking that LP home with me.

[mynameisdan]

If they are 20 bucks do they at least come with free download for the mp3s of the album too?

Depends on the label.

I think its ridiculous to spend 30+$ on a record when theres 5000+ copies of it. Wait a year or whatever and get it on ebay for 15$..

ha- that's what i said to myself about deloused... still don't have it.

[patron]

I was waiting to buy Fucked Up - ChemCom, and, I guess I waited too long. That shit is actually twice as expensive as the CD now.

[deafmx]

these pricings are making it totally unaffordable to build collections. if VC or the like cannot supply a certain record, then it wont be bought. ends up being upwards of $50-$60 Australian to get a goddamn record, so its back to CDs for the majority of my music bought.

living outside the States, i'm pretty used to paying extraordinary prices anyway (mainly due to the ridiculous cost of shipping), but these pricing structures bite the big one.

Bingo bango

stupid. we import records from across the world and get price raped too. your domestic record prices are probably pretty damn reasonable!!

[vinyljunkie]

its weird to see so many people complain about a 20 dollar LP, but yet are the same people who will buy 5 copies of a 10 dollar LP, just to have the different colors.

or that complain about a 20 dollar LP, but will have no problem coughing up 100 bucks for a Brand New/Death Cab/variant of some hype record on ebay.

[lokithelion]

http://www.mammothpress.com/index.php?area=readmore&pid=12091

for those interested on this I got an official comment from the label.

THANK YOU! Its nice to see someone get an answer that counts instead of just speculation and name calling.

I find this interesting for a few reasons.

1. Matador had been re-issuing vinyl 5 or so years ago as part of some super saver type thing. I can recall picking up a few LPs, pressed on RTI 180 gram virgin vinyl for 10 bucks, at a store no less, not direct.

2. One of the reasons so many major labels are "getting on the trend" is that we as consumers of records are willing to pay for them. Once labels discovered that people perceive vinyl as being a more expensive package worth paying for, unlike cds, they moved to pressing more vinyl, only makes since.

3. More people pressing vinyl means the pressing plants can raise prices due to the sky rocketing demand for their service.

All this is another reason I wish I know more about pressing the vinyl, it is prime time for a new pressing plant in the US to open.

Several of the matador releases I have were worth the extra cash, the Stephen Malkmus and the Jicks latest was a really sturdy package worth the 20 bucks. But unfortunately they are not all this good, packaging or music on the disc.

I was planning on placing orders for a few records from Matador, now I don't think I will, maybe just the one that I really want...

No problem dude. Glade I could help. This isn't too much for some records but too much for others. I just snagged Fucked Up Chem of Common w/ a shirt for 29 shipped from Matador, so the price isn't in effect right now, but I think these are going to be the new list prices for stores. I think if you buy direct from the label they might be cheaper. The dudes are out of the office during the weekend but I'll ask on Monday.

[vinyljunkie]

its a major label. things are done differently on major labels. Its why bands choose to "sign" with them. they arent trying to be "punk" or anything.

and the costs of doing a major label are so much more than your bedroom label. Someone made the comment about how they dont pay more than 3 bucks per LP, based on pressing costs, etc. that may be true, but pressing costs are only a small part of the total cost.

bands sign with majors to get more exposure, the label helps get that exposure through advertising, etc. advertising in magazines like alternative press, rolling stone etc. cost thousands and thousands of dollars. plus you have literally hundreds of promo copies to get the music played on the radio, or in stores, etc. 500 promo copies @ 3 bucks a piece, is another 1500 bucks of cost. plus a lot of the releases have artwork commissioned for the album, which can cost hundreds, if not thousands (depending on how many copies are being pressed, etc). plus there is way more overhead in a bigger label. you have to have people who deal with distributors/stores. people who deal with advertising. when you press 300 copies of something, shipping might not be a big deal. when you have to ship out 5 or 10 thousand records, you have to have someone (or multiple people) staffed spending 8 hours a day packaging. legal counsel for licensing, or any issues that come up. all of that costs money. plus you are paying for an office. a warehouse to store the hundreds of thousands of records on hand.

im not sticking up for a 20 dollar LP, and im not a fan of a 30 dollar double LP. im just saying anyone who thinks the only costs that go into putting out a record are the pressing costs, for a label the size of matador is way off base, and obviously has no clue what all goes into running a large international company.

[flood]

its a major label. things are done differently on major labels. Its why bands choose to "sign" with them. they arent trying to be "punk" or anything.

and the costs of doing a major label are so much more than your bedroom label. Someone made the comment about how they dont pay more than 3 bucks per LP, based on pressing costs, etc. that may be true, but pressing costs are only a small part of the total cost.

bands sign with majors to get more exposure, the label helps get that exposure through advertising, etc. advertising in magazines like alternative press, rolling stone etc. cost thousands and thousands of dollars. plus you have literally hundreds of promo copies to get the music played on the radio, or in stores, etc. 500 promo copies @ 3 bucks a piece, is another 1500 bucks of cost. plus a lot of the releases have artwork commissioned for the album, which can cost hundreds, if not thousands (depending on how many copies are being pressed, etc). plus there is way more overhead in a bigger label. you have to have people who deal with distributors/stores. people who deal with advertising. when you press 300 copies of something, shipping might not be a big deal. when you have to ship out 5 or 10 thousand records, you have to have someone (or multiple people) staffed spending 8 hours a day packaging. legal counsel for licensing, or any issues that come up. all of that costs money. plus you are paying for an office. a warehouse to store the hundreds of thousands of records on hand.

im not sticking up for a 20 dollar LP, and im not a fan of a 30 dollar double LP. im just saying anyone who thinks the only costs that go into putting out a record are the pressing costs, for a label the size of matador is way off base, and obviously has no clue what all goes into running a large international company.

total bs answer.

labels like Epitaph, Victory, Vagrant etc are all in the same league as Matador in terms as size and they manage to not have $20 LPs. Don't defend what is obviously a label who got used to huge profits from a market where cds sold like hotcakes (we're talking around $9 wholesale costs) and now are going to have to pay for that excess in a market place thats changed entirely.

If they can sell Mono's Gone 3xLP which has good looking vinyl, and gorgeous outrageous full color packaging for $20... theres nothing matador can day that will make me belive they need to charge $20 for a single lp.

[xxmartinxx]

It simply comes down to making money where you can get it.

CD sales are dropping off like crazy and I'm sure Matador is selling two LP's for every one CD.

I'd respect them more if they said "Listen, we need to make more money off LP's to stay in business since the huge markup we make on CD's is drying up." Not this bullshit about how they lose money on LP's. That's such a blatant lie.

[Guest markovianprocess]

its a major label. things are done differently on major labels. Its why bands choose to "sign" with them. they arent trying to be "punk" or anything.

and the costs of doing a major label are so much more than your bedroom label. Someone made the comment about how they dont pay more than 3 bucks per LP, based on pressing costs, etc. that may be true, but pressing costs are only a small part of the total cost.

bands sign with majors to get more exposure, the label helps get that exposure through advertising, etc. advertising in magazines like alternative press, rolling stone etc. cost thousands and thousands of dollars. plus you have literally hundreds of promo copies to get the music played on the radio, or in stores, etc. 500 promo copies @ 3 bucks a piece, is another 1500 bucks of cost. plus a lot of the releases have artwork commissioned for the album, which can cost hundreds, if not thousands (depending on how many copies are being pressed, etc). plus there is way more overhead in a bigger label. you have to have people who deal with distributors/stores. people who deal with advertising. when you press 300 copies of something, shipping might not be a big deal. when you have to ship out 5 or 10 thousand records, you have to have someone (or multiple people) staffed spending 8 hours a day packaging. legal counsel for licensing, or any issues that come up. all of that costs money. plus you are paying for an office. a warehouse to store the hundreds of thousands of records on hand.

im not sticking up for a 20 dollar LP, and im not a fan of a 30 dollar double LP. im just saying anyone who thinks the only costs that go into putting out a record are the pressing costs, for a label the size of matador is way off base, and obviously has no clue what all goes into running a large international company.

total bs answer.

labels like Epitaph, Victory, Vagrant etc are all in the same league as Matador in terms as size and they manage to not have $20 LPs. Don't defend what is obviously a label who got used to huge profits from a market where cds sold like hotcakes (we're talking around $9 wholesale costs) and now are going to have to pay for that excess in a market place thats changed entirely.

If they can sell Mono's Gone 3xLP which has good looking vinyl, and gorgeous outrageous full color packaging for $20... theres nothing matador can day that will make me belive they need to charge $20 for a single lp.

The thing I've noticed from this thread is that people are trying to defend bigger labels by saying that they have bigger costs, more wages, more mouths to feed, etc; but doesn't this just show that the majors are doing it all wrong?

I mean, if Dischord, which I would still view as an indie no matter how established, can survive (and thrive) selling LP's for £5/$10 then labels like Matador should too. I think we live in a world where record labels just throw money at artists then rape the fans for all they are worth.

I'll illustrate this with an example. The Steal (respected hardcore punk from England) recorded their album in two days. It sounds fucking amazing. If a band can get results like that in say a week or two in a small studio, why send them anywhere else?

If the majors want to survive in this market, they need to evolve or die. Upping the prices of records significantly is only going to result in less sales, and more pissed off fans. It'll only encourage people to illegally download.

[kirbypuckett]

total bs answer.

labels like Epitaph, Victory, Vagrant etc are all in the same league as Matador in terms as size and they manage to not have $20 LPs. Don't defend what is obviously a label who got used to huge profits from a market where cds sold like hotcakes (we're talking around $9 wholesale costs) and now are going to have to pay for that excess in a market place thats changed entirely.

If they can sell Mono's Gone 3xLP which has good looking vinyl, and gorgeous outrageous full color packaging for $20... theres nothing matador can day that will make me belive they need to charge $20 for a single lp.

The thing I've noticed from this thread is that people are trying to defend bigger labels by saying that they have bigger costs, more wages, more mouths to feed, etc; but doesn't this just show that the majors are doing it all wrong?

I mean, if Dischord, which I would still view as an indie no matter how established, can survive (and thrive) selling LP's for £5/$10 then labels like Matador should too. I think we live in a world where record labels just throw money at artists then rape the fans for all they are worth.

I'll illustrate this with an example. The Steal (respected hardcore punk from England) recorded their album in two days. It sounds fucking amazing. If a band can get results like that in say a week or two in a small studio, why send them anywhere else?

If the majors want to survive in this market, they need to evolve or die. Upping the prices of records significantly is only going to result in less sales, and more pissed off fans. It'll only encourage people to illegally download.

Do people not consider Dischord an indie?

Not all bands can record their records in 2-days. Maybe all 'punk' bands.

This post confused the hell out of me.

[Guest markovianprocess]

The thing I've noticed from this thread is that people are trying to defend bigger labels by saying that they have bigger costs, more wages, more mouths to feed, etc; but doesn't this just show that the majors are doing it all wrong?

I mean, if Dischord, which I would still view as an indie no matter how established, can survive (and thrive) selling LP's for £5/$10 then labels like Matador should too. I think we live in a world where record labels just throw money at artists then rape the fans for all they are worth.

I'll illustrate this with an example. The Steal (respected hardcore punk from England) recorded their album in two days. It sounds fucking amazing. If a band can get results like that in say a week or two in a small studio, why send them anywhere else?

If the majors want to survive in this market, they need to evolve or die. Upping the prices of records significantly is only going to result in less sales, and more pissed off fans. It'll only encourage people to illegally download.

Do people not consider Dischord an indie?

Not all bands can record their records in 2-days. Maybe all 'punk' bands.

This post confused the hell out of me.

Sorry, I'm ill. I shouldn't post when I'm ill.

To sum up.

Majors bad, Indies good.

Majors - stop spending so much damn money you don't need to and lower your prices bitches.

[username]

If they can sell Mono's Gone 3xLP which has good looking vinyl, and gorgeous outrageous full color packaging for $20

and yet their new album is going for 20

[lokithelion]

i dont think the new record is a single

[pjaicomo]

I was happy to find that Used Kids happen to order a ton of matador releases prior to this so I was able to pick them up from the store for $12 today. WOOOOT

To answer Mr Jaicomo

It all depends on the record. I don't like buying 20 dollar records but sometimes i do. I might really like the band so I really want it. I also buy a lot of records that are made in other countries so I often have to pay high shipping or high markup in store, I would imagine that point is something all of us are affected buy, not just those outside the US.

But man I gotta agree with you, if I pull up a single LP in a regular sleeve, odds are I wont be taking that LP home with me.

Yeah, of course there are exceptions. If I need a record for my collection and I have to pay $20, I will pay $20, but if I am looking for something new, it's not going to happen.

[vinyljunkie]

theres nothing matador can day that will make me belive they need to charge $20 for a single lp.

no one is arguing that majors overspend, and waste money. doesnt change the fact that their costs are still higher. whether they COULD/SHOULD be lower or not, is up for debate i guess. the fact still remains they can sell a couple thousand records at 20 bucks a piece so why not.

you cant compare dischord to matador. when was the last time dischord had a release in the billboard top charts?

dischord can sell much cheaper because they arent spending 3-5 bucks an album in ad costs to push the bands.

as for a sustainable "business plan", matador has been around for 20 years. thats not much younger than dischord. and a lot older than a lot of "punk" cheap labels.

people have commented on the thread how no idea is cheap so they support them, and that proves that places like no idea have more staying power. nothing againt no idea who i love, but most of their pressings are still in the 500-1000 range, and with the exception of a few bands, most all their bands are and will always be local-ish punk bands. matador outsells them 10 to 1 and gets their bands international. but no idea's "business" plan is different than matadors, and the bands that choose the respective labels have different outlooks as well.

so great. a couple hundred kids support "punk" and buy the cheaper titles, but 10,000 kids shell out the 20 bucks to buy a matador release. and the reason why matador releases get exposure, more kids to check them out, and end up on the billboard charts is the ridiculous amount of money they spend on promo and advertising that gets the music in magazines, movies, tv shows, etc. all raising the cost of a release.

also, places like victory rake in money at lower costs because they dont pay their bands. how many bands on their roster have left and subsequently complained and/or sued the label because they never got paid. unfortunately, most of the bands on the roster are too small, and poor to afford to hire legal counsel to recoup the money they are owed.

just look at lookout records. they kept their prices low, but were spending tons of money on advertising, trying to push their roster like a major etc, but never factored that amount into the total release cost, and in order to afford those new releases they took money from old sales instead of paying the bands. they only got caught because a band got big enough, and could afford to confront the label legally. maybe they would have had enough money to cover costs if they charged 20 bucks an album?

[vinyljunkie]

once again. i think that price is crap, and i am not siding with matador/major labels. nor am i saying they SHOULD charge that much. im just playing devils advocate in saying i totally understand how their costs COULD be that high, and why a label trying to play the major label game, feels they need to charge a price like that to break even/get ahead.