PA sports support dog killers, yay!

[dante3000]

I stopped reading all of this after the first page. It's inevitably going to be a circular argument but here's my two cents.

It's not a Michael Vick thing or an NFL thing, it's a fame thing. America is much more willing to look past the legal discretion of people who are famous than they are the every man. Chris Rock said it with O.J. "If he was a bus driver he wouldn't even be OJ, he'd be Orenthal the bus driving murderer". Hollywood actors get in public debacles all the time that would cost you or I our jobs and good luck getting a job back once you've got a felony on your record or once you're known nationwide as "the real estate agent with the dog fighting ring". That shit doesn't happen.

But because some guy can throw a ball, or run really fast or basically do anything that generates an audience we're willing to let it slide and along with that, so are the people who hire them. Like Ben said, the NFL is a business and as long as it makes economic sense to sign Vic, someone is going to sign him regardless of if he killed a dog or committed war crimes. I don't think that's necessarily an awful thing but until America reevaluates their view on celebrity nothing is going to change.

[Duff]

i can only imagine how Philly fans will treat him. if they threw snowballs at santa what will they do to someone who fought dogs for quite a few years. but PETA is actually glad he signed with the Eagles, saying that Philly is a known hotspot for dog fighting and hopefully Vick will be a role model for the community.

[¯\_(ツ)_/¯]

i can only imagine how Philly fans will treat him. if they threw snowballs at santa what will they do to someone who fought dogs for quite a few years. but PETA is actually glad he signed with the Eagles, saying that Philly is a known hotspot for dog fighting and hopefully Vick will be a role model for the community.

seeing how philly fans are assholes, they'll probably champion Vick.

[xxmartinxx]

I think what Vick was involved with was extremely fucked up. That being said, I'm so over people acting like the dude is on par with Hilter or something. I'm starting to think that had be been convicted of human trafficking people would care less.

Want to know why Philly signed him? Because great quarterbacks are extremely rare. Rare enough for them to ignore the fact he's a pariah and a huge PR liability. And yes, he is great. If he were mediocre he'd be apply for jobs sweeping floors at a super market right now. And if there wasn't the game suspension he would have been snapped up a lot sooner.

And again... the guy wasn't a rapist, murder, or child molester. Dogs are not human beings. If you're one of these wackos who think that dogs are somehow on the same level or even superior to people, you need therapy.

[jesse]

To have some footing in the argument that Vick is an asshole you probably need to be a vegetarian. Is dog fighting a lot worse than how chickens are slaughtered? We're all implicit in cruelty to animals in some way, we can try minimize it but this is how society works.

I assume for the most part this board is filled with middle class white people. I don't think many of us are really that qualified to speak on what it means to grow up poor and black in America. There were some things and people in Vick's life who took advantage of him. Eventually he should be expected to reach an age where he can get past the shit ingrained in him as a kid, but this was clearly a case of arrested development. One which it seems prison has probably solved. It's easy to cast stones at dog fighting from atop Mount Pious, but I don't think many of us really understand what was going on.

[lonesomexloveus]

I assume for the most part this board is filled with middle class white people. I don't think many of us are really that qualified to speak on what it means to grow up poor and black in America. There were some things and people in Vick's life who took advantage of him. Eventually he should be expected to reach an age where he can get past the shit ingrained in him as a kid, but this was clearly a case of arrested development. One which it seems prison has probably solved. It's easy to cast stones at dog fighting from atop Mount Pious, but I don't think many of us really understand what was going on.

wah wah wah i had a tough childhood. not an excuse.

there are plenty of people who have endured much worse hardships than im sure he has, and aren't making excessive amounts of money, and are upstanding citizens.

to use the 'he had a rough life' argument is a cop out.

[dante3000]

To have some footing in the argument that Vick is an asshole you probably need to be a vegetarian. Is dog fighting a lot worse than how chickens are slaughtered? We're all implicit in cruelty to animals in some way, we can try minimize it but this is how society works.

I assume for the most part this board is filled with middle class white people. I don't think many of us are really that qualified to speak on what it means to grow up poor and black in America. There were some things and people in Vick's life who took advantage of him. Eventually he should be expected to reach an age where he can get past the shit ingrained in him as a kid, but this was clearly a case of arrested development. One which it seems prison has probably solved. It's easy to cast stones at dog fighting from atop Mount Pious, but I don't think many of us really understand what was going on.

One, yes it is worse. Chickens and cows are slaughtered for a reason, not merely for entertainment value. Additionally, rarely are they treated with the same amount of cruelty seen in dog fighting, where animals are routinely starved, beaten and basically bred to be aggressive.

Secondly, I agree that Vic probably experienced things that I have not, but that doesn't excuse his actions. At some point you need to own up for yourself. As he was 27 when he was arrested (maybe 26) I'd say he had enough time to grow up and out of that lifestyle. He didn't need the money, so the dog fighting was for pure amusement.

[travis]

I assume for the most part this board is filled with middle class white people. I don't think many of us are really that qualified to speak on what it means to grow up poor and black in America. There were some things and people in Vick's life who took advantage of him. Eventually he should be expected to reach an age where he can get past the shit ingrained in him as a kid, but this was clearly a case of arrested development. One which it seems prison has probably solved. It's easy to cast stones at dog fighting from atop Mount Pious, but I don't think many of us really understand what was going on.

wah wah wah i had a tough childhood. not an excuse.

there are plenty of people who have endured much worse hardships than im sure he has, and aren't making excessive amounts of money, and are upstanding citizens.

to use the 'he had a rough life' argument is a cop out.

I dont think this is Vicks excuse. He never came out and tried to defend what he did. He knew it was wrong and knew he should have never let this kind of thing happen. But he served his time and is allowed to move on with his life now.

[jesse]

It's not a cop out. His childhood is the reason why he is how he is. How he was was a piece of shit, therefore he went to prison, deservedly. Now he's out of prison and deserves to make a living. What else can Mike Vick do? He's not going to be an engineer. So what are we supposed to do with people who go to prison? If they aren't allowed to prove that they changed in prison and should be forever shunned maybe we should just start executing everyone in prison.

I also agree that dog fighting is worse than killing chickens, that's why Vick spent almost 2 years in jail, and Perdue(sp?) makes millions. But that doesn't mean that how we treat the meat we eat in this country isn't fucked up. We all abuse animals. The people who go way out there with it go to jail. Just like I'm sure people who are giving Stallworth shit have driven drunk in their life. They didn't kill anyone and therefore feel like they have the moral upper hand but that doesn't completely excuse it. It's all a matter of degrees. At least to me.

[lonesomexloveus]

wah wah wah i had a tough childhood. not an excuse.

there are plenty of people who have endured much worse hardships than im sure he has, and aren't making excessive amounts of money, and are upstanding citizens.

to use the 'he had a rough life' argument is a cop out.

I dont think this is Vicks excuse. He never came out and tried to defend what he did. He knew it was wrong and knew he should have never let this kind of thing happen. But he served his time and is allowed to move on with his life now.

i agree that it's not vick's excuse, but that kid brought it up as an excuse. dog fighting is an inexcusable behavior.

...i just said excuse or a variation thereof far too much!

[dante3000]

It's not a cop out. His childhood is the reason why he is how he is. How he was was a piece of shit, therefore he went to prison, deservedly. Now he's out of prison and deserves to make a living. What else can Mike Vick do? He's not going to be an engineer. So what are we supposed to do with people who go to prison? If they aren't allowed to prove that they changed in prison and should be forever shunned maybe we should just start executing everyone in prison.

I also agree that dog fighting is worse than killing chickens, that's why Vick spent almost 2 years in jail, and Perdue(sp?) makes millions. But that doesn't mean that how we treat the meat we eat in this country isn't fucked up. We all abuse animals. The people who go way out there with it go to jail. Just like I'm sure people who are giving Stallworth shit have driven drunk in their life. They didn't kill anyone and therefore feel like they have the moral upper hand but that doesn't completely excuse it. It's all a matter of degrees. At least to me.

Assuming things about the people you assume are making assumptions is awfully assuming of you.

[drabley]

To have some footing in the argument that Vick is an asshole you probably need to be a vegetarian. Is dog fighting a lot worse than how chickens are slaughtered? We're all implicit in cruelty to animals in some way, we can try minimize it but this is how society works.

I assume for the most part this board is filled with middle class white people. I don't think many of us are really that qualified to speak on what it means to grow up poor and black in America. There were some things and people in Vick's life who took advantage of him. Eventually he should be expected to reach an age where he can get past the shit ingrained in him as a kid, but this was clearly a case of arrested development. One which it seems prison has probably solved. It's easy to cast stones at dog fighting from atop Mount Pious, but I don't think many of us really understand what was going on.

One, yes it is worse. Chickens and cows are slaughtered for a reason, not merely for entertainment value. Additionally, rarely are they treated with the same amount of cruelty seen in dog fighting, where animals are routinely starved, beaten and basically bred to be aggressive.

Secondly, I agree that Vic probably experienced things that I have not, but that doesn't excuse his actions. At some point you need to own up for yourself. As he was 27 when he was arrested (maybe 26) I'd say he had enough time to grow up and out of that lifestyle. He didn't need the money, so the dog fighting was for pure amusement.

I agree completley with Dante.

You're a product of environment until you reach a point where you inherently know better. You don't need to be borne of status, wealth, or particular race to figure this out. You don't even need to be taught this. Osmosis should be enough.

Ignorance is not an excuse for an action, it's a cause. Unless someone is mentally challenged, we all have the same basic capacity to inherently understand what is right and wrong. My white lower middle class parents didn't teach me that dog fighting is wrong -- I just knew. Vick should have as well. And he did.

But that doesn't change the fact that he was punished within the acceptable guidlines of the legal system. Case closed.

[lonesomexloveus]

It's not a cop out. His childhood is the reason why he is how he is. How he was was a piece of shit, therefore he went to prison, deservedly. Now he's out of prison and deserves to make a living. What else can Mike Vick do? He's not going to be an engineer. So what are we supposed to do with people who go to prison? If they aren't allowed to prove that they changed in prison and should be forever shunned maybe we should just start executing everyone in prison.

I also agree that dog fighting is worse than killing chickens, that's why Vick spent almost 2 years in jail, and Perdue(sp?) makes millions. But that doesn't mean that how we treat the meat we eat in this country isn't fucked up. We all abuse animals. The people who go way out there with it go to jail. Just like I'm sure people who are giving Stallworth shit have driven drunk in their life. They didn't kill anyone and therefore feel like they have the moral upper hand but that doesn't completely excuse it. It's all a matter of degrees. At least to me.

LOL. what else can he do? really? you honestly just posed that question?

are you saying that he's incapable of going to school to get a degree in engineering if he felt so inclined? he can do my job; pretty sure he's qualified. he could work at the supermarket. etc etc.

i don't disagree with the fact that people can be truly sorry and change and should get another shot at life after prison. however, this man is making millions, and after what he did, it just doesn't sit right with me for some reason.

[silentgods]

people who are piece of shit human beings shouldn't be making millions of dollars playing a game.

[drabley]

Should anyone be making millions of dollars for playing a game?

Sounds like the fact that he has a large paycheck is influencing people's opinion. It shouldn't.

This is the real core issue, as Dante pointed out earlier about celebrity figures.

[drabley]

What's being lost is pay scale.

The NFL minimum wage for a player of Vick's experience is $720,000.

The minimum wage for regular schmoes like us is, what, $16,000?

So picture me -- making $45,000 per year. I fuck up like Vick. Chances are I do time, lose my job, suffer financially, and can't get my job, or one at the same level, back. Any job I do get will likely be lesser in stature, rank, and salary. This is exactly what happened to Vick.

Now picture me a Wall Street Executive making 2.3million per year. I do time, lose my job, suffer financially, and can't get my job, or one at the same level, back. Any firm would recognize my abilities and talents and take a chance on me at a lesser position -- maybe some senior staff role outside of the elite circles. I'd still make a six figure salary and live happily ever after having paid my debt to society.

It's scale. Vick's contract is a distant shadow of its former self. He was once the highest paid player in the league, now he's right at the league average. He's been demoted and received a gargantuan pay cut. He'll likely never regain the pay and stardom he once had and will have to settle on playing a supporting role.

Same as anyone else who would be guilty of the same things he did.

Scale, my friends, scale. Not saying it's right, but it's a fact.

[sgoodcore]

The one difference between the everyman and Vick is if it were the everyman it certainly wouldn't be on SportsCenter and people would be far less likely to know about it, if for instances, you moved.

[kirbypuckett]

What's being lost is pay scale.

The NFL minimum wage for a player of Vick's experience is $720,000.

The minimum wage for regular schmoes like us is, what, $16,000?

So picture me -- making $45,000 per year. I fuck up like Vick. Chances are I do time, lose my job, suffer financially, and can't get my job, or one at the same level, back. Any job I do get will likely be lesser in stature, rank, and salary. This is exactly what happened to Vick.

Now picture me a Wall Street Executive making 2.3million per year. I do time, lose my job, suffer financially, and can't get my job, or one at the same level, back. Any firm would recognize my abilities and talents and take a chance on me at a lesser position -- maybe some senior staff role outside of the elite circles. I'd still make a six figure salary and live happily ever after having paid my debt to society.

It's scale. Vick's contract is a distant shadow of its former self. He was once the highest paid player in the league, now he's right at the league average. He's been demoted and received a gargantuan pay cut. He'll likely never regain the pay and stardom he once had and will have to settle on playing a supporting role.

Same as anyone else who would be guilty of the same things he did.

Scale, my friends, scale. Not saying it's right, but it's a fact.

If he performs well there is a team option for $5.2 million next year.

[Snaggle Von Swift]

http://nfl.fanhouse.com/2007/08/08/jeffrey-lurie-philadelphia-eagles-dont-tolerate-cruelty-to-ani/

interesting article, making Lurie look like a total jack ass.

So glad i'm not an Eagles fan.

[lonesomexloveus]

If he performs well there is a team option for $5.2 million next year.

makes me slightly ill just thinking about it.

[jesse]

Ughh, this "kid" is through arguing.

[lonesomexloveus]

Ughh, this "kid" is through arguing.

i call everyone kid regardless of age. actually, because i'm too lazy to check your age on here. so that wasn't anything against you personally.

[deadbeat52]

He paid his debt to society. Everyone deserves the right to make a living.

[mcm1610]

Perfect fit!

[chaz725]

dude just picked the wrong animal to kill

if he was a hunter or a fisher for sport/money no one would care

this country just happens to love the shit out of dogs

im not saying he was right to do it AT ALL, but think about it

i was watching a show with members of the yankess fishing and filleting fish...put them in jail?

if vick cooked/ate the dogs would that be better since they were used for nourishment?

in closing, fuck the eagles GO GMEN

/rant