We Need Transparency (an open letter to Virgil)

[daniel]

Now this is all in good fun so don't rage all over me.

[Guest]

+1

I lol'd.

[silentgods]

their leader...?

[googlemyass]

Now this is all in good fun so don't rage all over me.

HAHAHA. im just chillin.

[hickey]

Yes, buying from VC could help them, but it would be small compared to the debts supposedly incurred. Also, why would I buy from a place I know isn't paying the labels?

As for releasing records while still in debt and pre-orders: It's robbing Peter to pay Paul. No good will come of it and more debt will be incurred.

[Just Another Tom]

After reading several similar threads i have avoided commenting because i don't see it as any of my business and i don't feel that informed on the matter. However each time i read another one i get more and more annoyed.

I honestly can't see a point in outing a companies business operations in a public forum for customers and long term supporters to read. SH/VC are aware of the situation as are the labels involved and it is up to them to sort it out. Posting it on this forum isn't going to inform anyone that doesn't already know.

I understand that customers that signed up for the lifetime deal are at a risk of losing money, but this should of be been something considered before dropping that kind of money on a deal that relies on future transactions and success of a company operating in a time of recession.

People that have placed pre-orders are at risk of losing money also but that is a risk that you take when you order a record that is not ready to ship or in some cases even exist. There is nothing stopping anyone waiting until the release date to order, but people take the risk to make sure they secure a copy. Hell, its a risk i take all the time and if one transaction comes to bite me on the ass then so be it, i don't mind taking a hit for all the times it has paid off.

It wasn't to long ago that SH downsized in to Virgil's home when they were suffering and he must of made good with all people involved for them to continue trading with them to the present day. I truly believe that the people behind SH/VC are passionate to make it work they just need time and support.

This kind of information being paraded about in a public forum is detrimental to the future operations of SH/VC, and is comparable to the failings in Northern Rock. Northern rock failed because in a time when they needed support everyone went along withdrew all there money and made the bank weaker until it fell. SH/VC are not going to get stronger if people stop shopping / trading with them.

Like i said, i don't feel well enough informed to comment on Virgil's, VC or SH business tactics and to be fair it has nothing to do with me or 80% of this board. I just feel threads like are not beneficial to anyone.

/Rant over.

[mot]

Look, I think it's completely stupid to demand transparency. Opaque records are cool too and they sound just as good.

as long as they aren't a purple/grey mess i'm ok with that.

Ouch.

[robx]

I honestly can't see a point in outing a companies business operations in a public forum for customers and long term supporters to read. SH/VC are aware of the situation as are the labels involved and it is up to them to sort it out. Posting it on this forum isn't going to inform anyone that doesn't already know.

Part of the point of the thread was to point out Virgil hasn't been talking to the labels he owes money to. Also, while VC is a business, they also are part of the punk rock and hardcore community, and if he is struggling while still taking in product and money from people, it seems fair enough that everyone be informed of the situation. Did he make it public during the "vc for life" sale that the business was faultering?

Also, to people that are part of the "co-op", I think it seems perfectly reasonable that the business side of that be released. Some of this all reflects very poorly on the status of that group, and they absolutely deserve transparency.

Also, a thread like this wouldn't need to exist if this wasn't such a long-running issue that hasn't been properly addressed.

[Guest Admin]

I have been trying not to get involved in threads on message boards and would rather people who have a problem get in touch with me. Yes, we are having financial problems with Suburban Home/Vinyl Collective. Yes, I am behind paying a number of people. But every day I am working on ways to dig myself out of the hole that I have created for myself. It's not a simple black and white issue. I have been doing my best to get back to people who have a question or problem and have slowly been paying people back. As far why am I continuing to put out records and offer releases, I am trying all I can do bring in revenue to pay down the people I owe. Without explaining every detail going on, we cut half of our staff at year's end, are moving into a smaller/less expensive space when our lease is up in April, and working out partnerships that will enable to continue what we do but do it in a much different manner.

I have been around for nearly 15 years and have only over the past year been having problems paying people. If anyone wants to speak to me directly, you know how to get a hold of me. If I didn't get back to right away, I am human and sometimes my email gets gnarly. Email me one more time please and put in the subject (2nd attempt or whatever). If you want to trash me on a message board, I won't take it personally. The people who have worked with me for any extended period of time know that I have my heart in the right place and am doing all I can to remedy my situation.

[cj]

i'll still order things if the price is right on them... but i'm not a fan of pre-orders.

its too hard to have a large lump of money sitting seperately from everything else, and when there are 2 or 3 going on at the same time its almost impossible to keep everything seperate. it ends up that money from one release pays for things other than just its manufacturing.

[timpopkid]

Hickey: I sold my share mostly because of the lack of progress updates. What really pushed me over the edge was that most recent update that pretty much said 'there is no update because we haven't done anything, but this random guy has contacted some labels so we're going to let him keep contacting labels' That was a bit much for me. Then once Dplan was off the table and it looked like my money might fund a Bigwig record, I knew I had to get out.

Getting my money back was not hard, but it was more difficult than it should have been. I sent several emails for over a week and didn't get refunded, so finally I called Virgil and asked for my money back. I had it 2 minutes later.

I like Virgil a lot, he's a great guy, but, I really did not like how the coop was being run and thought I should get out before the whole thing falls apart and I lose my money.

[One Hundred Fifty-Two]

NOTE TO EVERYONE: No one lost or is going to lose money from being a part of the Co-Op. You paid $60 and you got three records. If you don't like those three records you can sell them and get $60 in exchange.

[Just Another Tom]

I honestly can't see a point in outing a companies business operations in a public forum for customers and long term supporters to read. SH/VC are aware of the situation as are the labels involved and it is up to them to sort it out. Posting it on this forum isn't going to inform anyone that doesn't already know.

Part of the point of the thread was to point out Virgil hasn't been talking to the labels he owes money to. Also, while VC is a business, they also are part of the punk rock and hardcore community, and if he is struggling while still taking in product and money from people, it seems fair enough that everyone be informed of the situation. Did he make it public during the "vc for life" sale that the business was faultering?

Also, to people that are part of the "co-op", I think it seems perfectly reasonable that the business side of that be released. Some of this all reflects very poorly on the status of that group, and they absolutely deserve transparency.

Also, a thread like this wouldn't need to exist if this wasn't such a long-running issue that hasn't been properly addressed.

In a way, i agree. What i was trying to say was if you are owed 9 months money, you know about the problem. Posting an anon message on a message bored isn't going help, it is not going to get your email answered.

As for the co-op, Yes they deserve to know, but again i think they are aware of its short comings from previous posts and the fact that they are involved and monitor the situation, the co-op doesn't concern the whole board and is up to the team leaders to gather and report information.

I just object to public nature of the post. I don't think it helps the situation if anything it makes it worse. E-mails and forums are not always answer to everything, its amazing how effective a phone call or a written letter can be.

[kurtz]

NOTE TO EVERYONE: No one lost or is going to lose money from being a part of the Co-Op. You paid $60 and you got three records. If you don't like those three records you can sell them and get $60 in exchange.

cost of those records to a co-op member = $60

cost to someone who just bought them as they were released = <$60

if nothing else gets released, you lost money.

[hickey]

NOTE TO EVERYONE: No one lost or is going to lose money from being a part of the Co-Op. You paid $60 and you got three records. If you don't like those three records you can sell them and get $60 in exchange.

No one ever said people in the co-op are losing money. I want to know how much money the co-op has to fund future releases, since the co-op's money is supposed to be separate from SH/VC money.

[One Hundred Fifty-Two]

NOTE TO EVERYONE: No one lost or is going to lose money from being a part of the Co-Op. You paid $60 and you got three records. If you don't like those three records you can sell them and get $60 in exchange.

cost of those records to a co-op member = $60

cost to someone who just bought them as they were released = <$60

if nothing else gets released, you lost money.

If you are going to look at it that way then why not include interest income you could have received instead if having the money sit in the Co-Op. What I was saying is that you can sell those 3 records right now and recoup all money you spent to enter the program.

[Guest]

I like that I played a (albeit small) role in getting some records released. While I haven't gotten anything that I've personally voted for, I still like the idea that a gang of people got together and got to choose what they wanted to get pressed. If you dislike the way the Co-op worked, then you hate democracy and by that measure, its safe to say that you also hate America and are a terrorist.

[One Hundred Fifty-Two]

NOTE TO EVERYONE: No one lost or is going to lose money from being a part of the Co-Op. You paid $60 and you got three records. If you don't like those three records you can sell them and get $60 in exchange.

No one ever said people in the co-op are losing money. I want to know how much money the co-op has to fund future releases, since the co-op's money is supposed to be separate from SH/VC money.

Hickey: I should get out before the whole thing falls apart and I lose my money.

[hookups96]

I like that I played a (albeit small) role in getting some records released. While I haven't gotten anything that I've personally voted for, I still like the idea that a gang of people got together and got to choose what they wanted to get pressed. If you dislike the way the Co-op worked, then you hate democracy and by that measure, its safe to say that you also hate America and are a terrorist.

haha

[daniel]

[ihprstl]

I like that I played a (albeit small) role in getting some records released. While I haven't gotten anything that I've personally voted for, I still like the idea that a gang of people got together and got to choose what they wanted to get pressed. If you dislike the way the Co-op worked, then you hate democracy and by that measure, its safe to say that you also hate America and are a terrorist.

haha

[jimmythescumbag]

I like that I played a (albeit small) role in getting some records released. While I haven't gotten anything that I've personally voted for, I still like the idea that a gang of people got together and got to choose what they wanted to get pressed. If you dislike the way the Co-op worked, then you hate democracy and by that measure, its safe to say that you also hate America and are a terrorist.

[706union]

After reading several similar threads i have avoided commenting because i don't see it as any of my business and i don't feel that informed on the matter. However each time i read another one i get more and more annoyed.

I honestly can't see a point in outing a companies business operations in a public forum for customers and long term supporters to read. SH/VC are aware of the situation as are the labels involved and it is up to them to sort it out. Posting it on this forum isn't going to inform anyone that doesn't already know.

I understand that customers that signed up for the lifetime deal are at a risk of losing money, but this should of be been something considered before dropping that kind of money on a deal that relies on future transactions and success of a company operating in a time of recession.

People that have placed pre-orders are at risk of losing money also but that is a risk that you take when you order a record that is not ready to ship or in some cases even exist. There is nothing stopping anyone waiting until the release date to order, but people take the risk to make sure they secure a copy. Hell, its a risk i take all the time and if one transaction comes to bite me on the ass then so be it, i don't mind taking a hit for all the times it has paid off.

It wasn't to long ago that SH downsized in to Virgil's home when they were suffering and he must of made good with all people involved for them to continue trading with them to the present day. I truly believe that the people behind SH/VC are passionate to make it work they just need time and support.

This kind of information being paraded about in a public forum is detrimental to the future operations of SH/VC, and is comparable to the failings in Northern Rock. Northern rock failed because in a time when they needed support everyone went along withdrew all there money and made the bank weaker until it fell. SH/VC are not going to get stronger if people stop shopping / trading with them.

Like i said, i don't feel well enough informed to comment on Virgil's, VC or SH business tactics and to be fair it has nothing to do with me or 80% of this board. I just feel threads like are not beneficial to anyone.

/Rant over.

Uhhh, I definitely see the point in outing a companies business operations if it´s likely I´m gonna spend $$$ with them. And it´s VERY likely people on this board spend money with VC, right?

And man why am I taking a risk when pre-ordering? It is the label´s fucking task to get that record out once they cashed in the pre-order money. I feel like you turn it around the wrong way. It is actually a good thing you have rights as a customer. Uhhh.

[rtw88]

I dread the influx of VC users to DF when this goes down.

Please Virgil: make it work. Win the lottery or something.

The threads about your clothes to threads about other stuff ratio will plummet. Terrible stuff.

[Duff]

is anyone else surprised the Virgil actually posted in this thread? although not going in depth, the fact that he addressed the issue somewhat in a public forum was surprising.