people bitching about the price of records

[servo]

if you guys dont mind spending a lot of money on records, why not spend a lot of money on my records?

http://vinylcollective.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=53592&start=0

[swoopdog]

CDs are cheaper and newer.

[porchlight]

But also:

If you have a ton of new titles every year, you can charge a little less because you have so many titles making money. Most little labels don't have that kind of money to put out a ton of titles at once though.

You know how I got to the point where I could put out a slew of new releases every month/every year? By not ripping people off! We sold the first Boy Sets Fire CD for $5ppd (still do). You have no idea how many tens of thousands of those we sold from my college apartment. If I were to charge $17 for them (like everyone else was at the time), we would have sold only like 1000-2000 and the label would probably be gone by now.

We sell a ton of records and we grow every year because they're inexpensive and anybody can afford them. Our profit comes from volume, not scarcity. And isn't the point of a record label to put as many copies of a band's recording into the hands of as many people as humanly possible? I know I'd be bummed if I spent a year writing a record and the label only made 300 for "collectors" and then OOP.

I've got 11 or so LP's and 10"s priced at $5.00 at http://www.magicbulletrecords.com/mailorder.html

Guess what? I still make money on those. We press enough that our per-piece cost allows us to treat customers' wallets and financial situations with respect.

markovian - email me at [email protected] for consolidated international shipping rates. The Euro is much stronger than the dollar, so you'll still come out ahead...

Listen here, Defensive-as-fuuuuuuck.

I wasn't saying you were an asshole or cheater for putting out a bunch of records and making a living. I especially wasn't criticizing you for selling inexpensive shit.

What I'm saying is that a lot of people don't have the initial money to have 1000 or 5000 records pressed, thus reducing the price per record. And a lot of people don't have the money to release multiple records at once.

I'm not trying to discredit your releases, just saying that you apparently have more money to invest in releases, making it easier for you to sell them cheaper. I'm not criticizing it, I'm just explaining why SOME labels sell records for more.

Lastly, I like your label, so lighten up.

[themullet89]

But also:

If you have a ton of new titles every year, you can charge a little less because you have so many titles making money. Most little labels don't have that kind of money to put out a ton of titles at once though.

You know how I got to the point where I could put out a slew of new releases every month/every year? By not ripping people off! We sold the first Boy Sets Fire CD for $5ppd (still do). You have no idea how many tens of thousands of those we sold from my college apartment. If I were to charge $17 for them (like everyone else was at the time), we would have sold only like 1000-2000 and the label would probably be gone by now.

We sell a ton of records and we grow every year because they're inexpensive and anybody can afford them. Our profit comes from volume, not scarcity. And isn't the point of a record label to put as many copies of a band's recording into the hands of as many people as humanly possible? I know I'd be bummed if I spent a year writing a record and the label only made 300 for "collectors" and then OOP.

I've got 11 or so LP's and 10"s priced at $5.00 at http://www.magicbulletrecords.com/mailorder.html

Guess what? I still make money on those. We press enough that our per-piece cost allows us to treat customers' wallets and financial situations with respect.

markovian - email me at [email protected] for consolidated international shipping rates. The Euro is much stronger than the dollar, so you'll still come out ahead...

Doesn't matter how much you sell your LPs for, I won't buy them because of your support for a Neo-Nazi asshole.

[magicbulletrecords]

If somebody doesn't have enough money to press 1000 records, maybe starting a record label isn't the wisest life choice.

Conrad - who's this "Neo-Nazi asshole" you speak of? I'm half-Chinese, by the way.

[themullet89]

If somebody doesn't have enough money to press 1000 records, maybe starting a record label isn't the wisest life choice.

Conrad - who's this "Neo-Nazi asshole" you speak of? I'm half-Chinese, by the way.

I'll give you three guesses

[porchlight]

If somebody doesn't have enough money to press 1000 records, maybe starting a record label isn't the wisest life choice.

Conrad - who's this "Neo-Nazi asshole" you speak of? I'm half-Chinese, by the way.

Duuuude, I am not trying to argue with you. I'm simply telling you why some labels are charging more than you. If you can press 2000 records and sell them all for 8 bucks, that's awesome. If you can sell 500 records for 15 bucks, that's great too.

[xxmartinxx]

I call bullshit on this thread. Labels are taking advantage of consumers because they have lost the cash cow that were CDs. CDs were dirt cheap to make and they sold for $10 to $15. Now no one is buying them, but there's still some people buying vinyl. So they're trying to recoup some of the lost profits from CDs and MP3 sales off the backs of record collectors.

Dischord used to sell their LPs for $8 post paid a few years ago. Now they're $11 plus postage. That's still pretty reasonable, but take the new Superchunk reissues. They are $19 plus postage from the label for a single LP. The Modest Mouse reissues are $22 from the label plus postage. The new Sun Kil Moon LP was $30 after shipping from the label!

There is clearly price gouging going on by labels trying to make a quick buck and people have every right to complain about it. This is going to eventually drive people away from buying records the same way they drove people away from buying CDs. I've already cut back on the records I'm purchasing. I'm sure other people are going to drop out of buying entirely.

[xxmartinxx]

If somebody doesn't have enough money to press 1000 records, maybe starting a record label isn't the wisest life choice.

Conrad - who's this "Neo-Nazi asshole" you speak of? I'm half-Chinese, by the way.

Duuuude, I am not trying to argue with you. I'm simply telling you why some labels are charging more than you. If you can press 2000 records and sell them all for 8 bucks, that's awesome. If you can sell 500 records for 15 bucks, that's great too.

I don't think Dischord, Merge, or Caldo Verde do pressings lower than a thousand. What's their excuse?

[xxmartinxx]

If somebody doesn't have enough money to press 1000 records, maybe starting a record label isn't the wisest life choice.

Conrad - who's this "Neo-Nazi asshole" you speak of? I'm half-Chinese, by the way.

I think he's referring to you putting out the Charles Manson records.

[magicbulletrecords]

Conrad - please find any evidence of Neo-Nazi activity. It's just not there, man.

Also, Martin clearly gets it. His post = totally backed.

[Guest afsdan]

I would like to add that it is easy to do 300-500 copies of a record and still sell them for a price that is more than fair. you just can't do that shit in a cookie-cutter fashion.

[magicbulletrecords]

Word. We've got up 500-edition Made Out of Babies LP's for $11.99 ppd in the US. Still making money.

[karmicswamp]

afsdan, exactly!

not to brag but another example - HATE 12" limited to 133 copies, $11ppd. pretty damn limited and likewise pretty damn affordable

and brent your comments about a label's role being not to rip people off, but rather to get music into the hands of people that will enjoy it - right fucking on.

[harryq]

I would like to add that it is easy to do 300-500 copies of a record and still sell them for a price that is more than fair. you just can't do that shit in a cookie-cutter fashion.

but what if you want pieces of the bible in the record?

[Guest afsdan]

depends if it's from the 18th century or whatever the fuck

[porchlight]

Martin, I completely agree that single LPs should not be anywhere near $20. There's almost never good reason.

-Dischord puts out a TON of records. This was my first post in this thread and main point:

But also:

If you have a ton of new titles every year, you can charge a little less because you have so many titles making money. Most little labels don't have that kind of money to put out a ton of titles at once though.

Allllllll I'm saying is that when you put out lots of records, you CAN afford to sell records for 11 bucks.

[kurtz]

people price products at prices they think they will sell at... in the case of Nofx .. they know full well that a good deal of this crap will be immediately flipped on ebay, and that coupled with the rising cost of vinyl records .. they figure why don't we make a couple extra bucks on the deal instead of some schmuck.

So because a few flippers will take advantage of a few suckers on ebay, that makes it okay for the label to gouge everyone who buys the record? This logic makes no sense to me.

[seamoney]

people price products at prices they think they will sell at... in the case of Nofx .. they know full well that a good deal of this crap will be immediately flipped on ebay, and that coupled with the rising cost of vinyl records .. they figure why don't we make a couple extra bucks on the deal instead of some schmuck.

So because a few flippers will take advantage of a few suckers on ebay, that makes it okay for the label to gouge everyone who buys the record? This logic makes no sense to me.

Not to mention that was the actual reason NFG used for charging $10 for the Dashboard split and people flipped out.

[magicbulletrecords]

Porchlight - It's not the longevity of labels that allows them to sell records for "cheap." It's the fact that they've sold records "cheap" from the start. Dischord/No Idea/Magic Bullet didn't come out of the gate selling $15 LP's. We made the records affordable right from the get-go so that the maximum number of people who wanted it could afford it. The affordability and no BS tactics earned loyalty and respect and helped grow the audiences for the bands and labels.

The volume generated from lower prices led to far more profits than if we charged $17 and relied on "collectors." That volume and revenue in turn enabled these labels to make multiple releases each month and sustain a sensible and fair business model.

[AlexH.]

I call bullshit on this thread. Labels are taking advantage of consumers because they have lost the cash cow that were CDs. CDs were dirt cheap to make and they sold for $10 to $15. Now no one is buying them, but there's still some people buying vinyl. So they're trying to recoup some of the lost profits from CDs and MP3 sales off the backs of record collectors.

Dischord used to sell their LPs for $8 post paid a few years ago. Now they're $11 plus postage. That's still pretty reasonable, but take the new Superchunk reissues. They are $19 plus postage from the label for a single LP. The Modest Mouse reissues are $22 from the label plus postage. The new Sun Kil Moon LP was $30 after shipping from the label!

There is clearly price gouging going on by labels trying to make a quick buck and people have every right to complain about it. This is going to eventually drive people away from buying records the same way they drove people away from buying CDs. I've already cut back on the records I'm purchasing. I'm sure other people are going to drop out of buying entirely.

Seriously, all those Merge reissues are like a kick in the face. They "reissued" those Spoon, Arcade Fire and Neutral Milk Hotel records when they've been in print all along. They went from $12 to $18, and you know they're using the same stampers - $6 pure profit. It's taking advantage of a loyal fanbase and it makes me sick.

[Shitty Rambo]

If you can't handle the heat, then get the fuck out of the kitchen.

I understand a lot of people prefer the quality of audio vinyl produces over any other format, but if you're not willing to pay the premium the shut the fuck up and move along.

MP3s aren't that expensive. If you just want the songs, BUY THE FUCKING SONGS. You obviously have a computer.

I have no sympathy for broke fuckers that can't afford shit they want. That's life. Step your game up and stop bitching. It doesn't make you punk-rock because you don't want to pay a few extra bones for a record, it makes you a cry-baby.

[RustyShackelford]

Conrad - please find any evidence of Neo-Nazi activity. It's just not there, man.

Also, Martin clearly gets it. His post = totally backed.

just saying, i will continue to support your "neo-nazi" charles manson records and buy every one you put out. sieg heil

[deafmx]

besides, what did Uncle Charlie ever do to you?

[bill]

I call bullshit on this thread. Labels are taking advantage of consumers because they have lost the cash cow that were CDs. CDs were dirt cheap to make and they sold for $10 to $15. Now no one is buying them, but there's still some people buying vinyl. So they're trying to recoup some of the lost profits from CDs and MP3 sales off the backs of record collectors.

Dischord used to sell their LPs for $8 post paid a few years ago. Now they're $11 plus postage. That's still pretty reasonable, but take the new Superchunk reissues. They are $19 plus postage from the label for a single LP. The Modest Mouse reissues are $22 from the label plus postage. The new Sun Kil Moon LP was $30 after shipping from the label!

There is clearly price gouging going on by labels trying to make a quick buck and people have every right to complain about it. This is going to eventually drive people away from buying records the same way they drove people away from buying CDs. I've already cut back on the records I'm purchasing. I'm sure other people are going to drop out of buying entirely.

Seriously, all those Merge reissues are like a kick in the face. They "reissued" those Spoon, Arcade Fire and Neutral Milk Hotel records when they've been in print all along. They went from $12 to $18, and you know they're using the same stampers - $6 pure profit. It's taking advantage of a loyal fanbase and it makes me sick.

To be fair to Merge I believe the $18 or whatever it is, is postpaid within the U.S. Fuck all good to me living in Europe though.