Question regarding the legalities of pressing?

[mrrom92]

I suppose this also relates to the legalities of starting an indie label.

this is my second post here (technically the first was the same, but in another thread) Anyhow, I'm looking to start my own label. But I'm confused in regards to physical distro.

I see on United's distro form, I need a tax ID. for my business? What is this and how do I get it? Is a independent label really considered a business? and does that mean I have to pay taxes on this label every year too?

Is it not as simple legally as recording music, paying to have it pressed and selling it?

[jailhouse]

You need to be legal. Get a few books and study them.

No offense, but if your asking a really simple question like this on a message board, you should probably not start a label. Learn about business, and more particularly the indie record business, and then think about a label. You probably won't make any money, you won't really need that tax id, because no distributor is going to pick you up until you have at least 10 or so good selling records and the financial means to put a couple grand of promo behind each release.

But yeah, learn about all that goes into owning your own business first, and then prepare to be dirt poor broke for a long while, and distributing your records yourself at a loss, maybe a distributor would pick you up in a few years, after you've shown a few thousand sales per release.

Unless you have a fairly unhealthy love of music, starting a label is a very very very poor financial decision.

[deafmx]

and this

http://vinylcollective.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=44775

[finchbadass]

please use kickstarter to fund every one of your releases, take at least 1 year from the time preorders go live to ship out the records, overcharge on shipping, come up with retarded package deals and package deal exlcusive variants, make a garbage bag package where the record or records come packaged inside a garbage bag that is screen printed, charge no less than $30 for a single LP and to top it off defend yourself tooth and nail regarding all those aspects of your legally questionable label

[mrrom92]

So if I'm self distributing these records, i don't need a tax ID and everything is perfectly legal?

Trust me, I've done a ton of reading, and haven't stopped. I'd love to read more if you have any recommendations, but this is the one aspect that confuses me. Thats why I asked on a message board. There really isn't anywhere else to ask such a question.

[jailhouse]

So if I'm self distributing these records, i don't need a tax ID and everything is perfectly legal?

Trust me, I've done a ton of reading, and haven't stopped. I'd love to read more if you have any recommendations, but this is the one aspect that confuses me. Thats why I asked on a message board. There really isn't anywhere else to ask such a question.

You need a business licence regardless. It's only something like 50 bucks a year for a sole proprietor.

[flood]

you dont necessarily need a business license or a tax id. you can just operate as a DBA based off of your social security number if you wish, and just file on your normal tax return. Honestly go talk to a professional because the people answering are not giving you accurate information.

[xadamhudsonx]

http://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/sole-proprietorship-basics-29694.html

[scottheisel]

you dont necessarily need a business license or a tax id. you can just operate as a DBA based off of your social security number if you wish, and just file on your normal tax return. Honestly go talk to a professional because the people answering are not giving you accurate information.

This is what I do.

[oterecords]

you dont necessarily need a business license or a tax id. you can just operate as a DBA based off of your social security number if you wish, and just file on your normal tax return. Honestly go talk to a professional because the people answering are not giving you accurate information.

This is what I do.

this is also how i set mine up

[mrrom92]

Have either of you (any of you) ever encountered any legal problems or setbacks? Issues with pressing plants or distribution? How do you distribute?

[oterecords]

Have either of you (any of you) ever encountered any legal problems or setbacks? Issues with pressing plants or distribution? How do you distribute?

I'm a new label so I haven't, I'm sure a handful of the other guys that run labels on here have.

As far as distribution goes, like someone said before unless you've got a handful of good releases that sell it would be almost impossible to find distribution. You are responsible for distributing your products. But contacting individual distros works to start out with.

[runforcover]

as far as distribution goes it also helps to have connections. The upstart label that just re-pressed NFG's Nothing Gold Can Stay got the part of the pressing exclusively sold through Hot Topic because he knows the guy who buys their vinyl stock. he also managed to get distribtion for the remaining part of the pressing rather quickly and effortlessly, at least he made it appear that way.

You don't think any of that had to do with it being a New Found Glory record?

[mindovermatter]

^ probably a good healthy combination of both.

[flood]

if you're doing small runs of things its almost better to handle the distro mainly yourself, or thru somewhat automated services like interpunk and cdbaby.. bigger distribution houses just seem to routinely fuck smaller labels... we've been crippled by distributors going under and losing out thousands of dollars of owed money and stock before.. and its always a fight to get paid even through some of the more reputable ones. its pretty much DIY or die in alot of cases

[mrrom92]

I've also been thinking of just contacting different indie record shops around the country, besides selling through kick starter and my own website.

Just submitted a proposal to kickstarter. Exciting!

[finchbadass]

I've also been thinking of just contacting different indie record shops around the country, besides selling through kick starter and my own website.

Just submitted a proposal to kickstarter. Exciting!

you know everything i said was sarcastic, overly sarcastic at that. but i had a strong hunch you would turn out to be a fool and would pull the kickstarter angle. you ask all these questions to be legit but go the kickstarter route. you're such a joke.

[mrrom92]

What's wrong with going through kickstarter? I could really care less if it's looked down upon by some holier-than-thou poster in an online forum about vinyl, who probably listens to their vinyl on a crosley or some other plastic piece of crap. Or better yet, a White Stripes branded crosley with a red and white slipmat. I care about the music, and that I can get my record out. Kickstarter is what makes it possible for someone like me to actually raise enough funds to realize a dream. If you don't like the fact that likeminded people who care about the music, cared enough to help fund the project, rather than have every expense come out of my own pocket with a product that I'm not 100% sure that I can sell every last copy of, then DON'T BUY MY FUCKING RECORD.

[cactusbot]

Oh great. Another Kickstarter label.

[finchbadass]

like someone else already said, you have no business releasing anything. even a free digital download. if you dont have the money up front to start a project... wait for it...wait for it... DON'T RELEASE ANYTHING. you might as well panhandle on some street corner, that's essentially what kickstarter is. can't wait to see what shitty album you will be pressing and will fall flat on your face with. people with your mentality and approach are ruining things across the board, thinking that all you have to do is walk on the backs of hard working people and accept hand outs, then in return give the final product to each person who threw money at you (which the person giving you the hand out paid for anyway)

[mrrom92]

Thanks for the advice this isn't about not having the money though, this is about minimizing the risk for all whom are involved, for just a first release! If people don't wanna buy a full LP on colored vinyl, recorded mixed and mastered all analog the entire way, for less than $10 because I'm some unknown, then hey, sure, maybe I will drop the idea. Nobody lost any money, nobody got burned. But maybe people will like it and I won't have a problem fronting up cash for my next LP or single. This here thread was started to gain advice, let's stick to fact and not make wildly incorrect assumptions based on irrelevant side-notes.

[smailtronic]

What's wrong with going through kickstarter? I could really care less if it's looked down upon by some holier-than-thou poster in an online forum about vinyl, who probably listens to their vinyl on a crosley or some other plastic piece of crap. Or better yet, a White Stripes branded crosley with a red and white slipmat. I care about the music, and that I can get my record out. Kickstarter is what makes it possible for someone like me to actually raise enough funds to realize a dream. If you don't like the fact that likeminded people who care about the music, cared enough to help fund the project, rather than have every expense come out of my own pocket with a product that I'm not 100% sure that I can sell every last copy of, then DON'T BUY MY FUCKING RECORD.

You should have a chat with the guy from Overdue Collection Agency about starting a kickstarter label.

[Guest greymundos]

What's wrong with going through kickstarter? I could really care less if it's looked down upon by some holier-than-thou poster in an online forum about vinyl, who probably listens to their vinyl on a crosley or some other plastic piece of crap. Or better yet, a White Stripes branded crosley with a red and white slipmat. I care about the music, and that I can get my record out. Kickstarter is what makes it possible for someone like me to actually raise enough funds to realize a dream. If you don't like the fact that likeminded people who care about the music, cared enough to help fund the project, rather than have every expense come out of my own pocket with a product that I'm not 100% sure that I can sell every last copy of, then DON'T BUY MY FUCKING RECORD.

You sound like a prick and being a prick won't sell your records, PRICK!

[somethingvinyl]

I guess the main problem with this thread is the OP is asking for advice but then when dudes who run indie labels give him some real, practical advice, OP talks as if he's got it all figured out.

[overdue]

You should have a chat with the guy from Overdue Collection Agency about starting a kickstarter label.

There's nothing wrong with Kickstarter. There are amazing projects all over that site, especially some of the tech product stuff. Comic books and film projects. What is wrong is when someone goes into a Kickstarter with little formulation of a proposal.

Based on the questions you're asking, it seems like you have a long way to go before you do anything. If you're not sure how to register a business through the government, or organize the legal side of things, go to the library. That's the best resource I've ever had. Register your business, or get a tax ID long before you launch a Kickstarter. Research everything you can before you put in a proposal; the more you plan, the more people will take you seriously. Draw up a line of your costs by getting quotes from all of your suppliers. Figure how much everything will take, then launch a campaign.

I don't command any kind of respect here, obviously. But despite what people may, I didn't simply jump into my project. I planned it out for about two years, registered the business, permits, licenses, etc. I knew exactly what the project entailed. I didn't set my goal too high in case I didn't reach it. This was suggested by Kickstarter so I could have something to start with. I had some trouble later because I had to find other means to finish everything. But it's done now.

Just because you ask for funds on Kickstarter (for any kind of project) doesn't mean you're not hardworking. It means you know when to ask for help. My self-employed salary is meager, barely enough to get by, let alone save enough for an expensive project.

There are plenty of problems with Kickstarter. Launching something with haste and little research is a huge problem. But if you have a well-thought out project, Kickstarter is a great asset to help make it happen. If you show people how much work you've put in beforehand, and how much you believe in your project, you will have supporters. But make sure you put in the time.