Official "Help Me Choose a Turntable" v.2.0 Thread

[ilikeguitars]

Anyone have any thoughts on the Audio Technica ATLP120? I've been looking all over orange counties goodwill's and salvation armies and have not been able to find a turntable or decent receiver. im guessing my main choice right now is on sites like amazon.

[TheCrimsonKing]

However, if vinyl is your preferred format and it's the majority of what you listen to - and you think that you'd like to eventually build a system that gives you a sound you're extremely happy with - then I wouldn't skimp on any of the components.

Here's an idea: spend a little more on a nicer turntable right now and forget about receivers and speakers for the time being. Also spend some cash on a decent budget preamp. By all accounts, the ART DJ Pre II is a terrific bang for your buck at $40 (http://www.amazon.com/ART-Pre-II-Phono-Preamp/dp/B000AJR482). There's also a USB version for about $15 more that makes ripping vinyl to mp3 really easy.

Then just run that shit through your computer and listen that way. I mean, are your computer speakers really that much worse than the Studebaker's built in speakers? Basically what I'm saying is that you can tolerate the loss in fidelity presently in exchange for something much nicer in the future. You've got the foundation of your system (the turntable); now you can start doing research and save your pennies for a decent receiver and speakers that you'll be happy with for years to come.

I understand that people want instant gratification, but I think there's something to be said for patience and slowly building a system that you'll be stoked on and that begs you to listen to it every day. I personally built my system piece by piece over the last year (still building!) and it has probably multiplied the time I spend spinning records by ten.

+1 for this. This is such sound advice. I have been thinking about upgrading for a fair while now but haven't been quite able to justify the expense. Certainly not in one hit. And I've been thinking of compromising on the quality of the individual components as a result. Impatience has clouded my better judgement. At least, until now. Thanks man.

[bearchuck]

However, if vinyl is your preferred format and it's the majority of what you listen to - and you think that you'd like to eventually build a system that gives you a sound you're extremely happy with - then I wouldn't skimp on any of the components.

Here's an idea: spend a little more on a nicer turntable right now and forget about receivers and speakers for the time being. Also spend some cash on a decent budget preamp. By all accounts, the ART DJ Pre II is a terrific bang for your buck at $40 (http://www.amazon.com/ART-Pre-II-Phono-Preamp/dp/B000AJR482). There's also a USB version for about $15 more that makes ripping vinyl to mp3 really easy.

Then just run that shit through your computer and listen that way. I mean, are your computer speakers really that much worse than the Studebaker's built in speakers? Basically what I'm saying is that you can tolerate the loss in fidelity presently in exchange for something much nicer in the future. You've got the foundation of your system (the turntable); now you can start doing research and save your pennies for a decent receiver and speakers that you'll be happy with for years to come.

I understand that people want instant gratification, but I think there's something to be said for patience and slowly building a system that you'll be stoked on and that begs you to listen to it every day. I personally built my system piece by piece over the last year (still building!) and it has probably multiplied the time I spend spinning records by ten.

+1 for this. This is such sound advice. I have been thinking about upgrading for a fair while now but haven't been quite able to justify the expense. Certainly not in one hit. And I've been thinking of compromising on the quality of the individual components as a result. Impatience has clouded my better judgement. At least, until now. Thanks man.

The last thing I want to do is tell someone that they shouldn't buy a pair a speakers - and by all means, if you can find a cheap pair that you're happy with, go ahead - but if your ultimate goal is to end up with a system that sounds great and that you'll be stoked on for years to come, then it might be worth building piece by piece. Of course, that might mean that you'll have to wait on certain components, but if you're patient, I think you'll be happy with the end result.

I'm just speaking from personal experience. I know that if I skimp on anything, I always end up wishing that I had gone the extra step and waited / saved up to buy the thing I really wanted.

[eskimoswim]

i'm in desperate need of some speakers within the $100-200 range. i'm happy with everything else in my set up, i just need the speakers to compliment it. some day i'll throw down a lot of money for extremely nice ones, but right now i just need some that are listenable

[dangerben]

i'm in desperate need of some speakers within the $100-200 range. i'm happy with everything else in my set up, i just need the speakers to compliment it. some day i'll throw down a lot of money for extremely nice ones, but right now i just need some that are listenable

have you looked back through the pages in this thread? honestly there are so many good suggestions, I'm still kind of shocked that 14 pages in we are still hitting so many similar questions.

not that that's a bad thing at all! kudos for wanting to go out and buy some nice speakers.... but a little more info might be better... have you got any in mind already?

what gear do you currently have?

do you want to buy new or used?

[Vinyl Fury]

i'm in desperate need of some speakers within the $100-200 range. i'm happy with everything else in my set up, i just need the speakers to compliment it. some day i'll throw down a lot of money for extremely nice ones, but right now i just need some that are listenable

if no one else has already suggested, I have these and they are pretty awesome - http://www.amazon.com/Sony-SS-F6000-Floo....8600652&sr= 8-1

[keepthemspinning89]

I'm looking to buy some speakers around the $400+ range for my Project Debut III and Marantz 2245 receiver. Any recommendations of speakers that would go great with this set up?

[slinch]

I'm looking to buy some speakers around the $400+ range for my Project Debut III and Marantz 2245 receiver. Any recommendations of speakers that would go great with this set up?

These are incredible for the price:

http://app.audiogon.com/listings/458322

A good by as well:

http://app.audiogon.com/listings/460307

Or, if you have a bigger room:

http://app.audiogon.com/listings/457813

[bearchuck]

Would a post about what makes a turntable "good" and what makes it "bad" be useful to people? I mean, I feel like most of it has been touched on at various points in this thread, but maybe someone needs to spell it all out in simple terms. It just seems like the same questions are being asked over and over again.

Honestly, turntable technology has essentially stayed the same for years and years and other than build quality and reliability, you're basically looking for two things. First, does the TT spin my records at a steady speed? Second, is it quiet? In other words, when you place the needle on the record, the only sound you want to hear in the music ... not rumble from the platter bearing or vibration from the tonearm (for example).

There are other thing that come into play, like how well does your deck track records, but now we're getting into cartridge / stylus / tonearm territory. Any decent TT that's set up properly is going to track just fine.

Of course, at the end of the day, every turntable has its own sonic characteristics and the only way to tell if you really like something is to actually listen to it. Some TTs sound open and airy, some have a solid bass kick and some are more neutral. One thing is for sure - this can be a complicated, confusing hobby, but once you educate yourself a little bit, I think that the audio equipment side of it is just as fun as the record collecting part.

[eskimoswim]

i'm in desperate need of some speakers within the $100-200 range. i'm happy with everything else in my set up, i just need the speakers to compliment it. some day i'll throw down a lot of money for extremely nice ones, but right now i just need some that are listenable

have you looked back through the pages in this thread? honestly there are so many good suggestions, I'm still kind of shocked that 14 pages in we are still hitting so many similar questions.

not that that's a bad thing at all! kudos for wanting to go out and buy some nice speakers.... but a little more info might be better... have you got any in mind already?

what gear do you currently have?

do you want to buy new or used?

looking for some that are better with mids/treble as opposed to being overpowered by bass. it'd be nice to have some that don't break up at high volumes as well. i'd prefer tower speakers, but at the $200 range i'm guessing i'll have to settle for bookshelf.

new/used doesn't really matter.

i looked back a few pages but honestly didn't feel like sifting through all fourteen.

[stuckpig]

Just picked up a mmf 2.2. Can you guys recommend a receiver and speakers? Not really looking to break the bank. Probably both for around $300? Is this doable?

[dangerben]

Would a post about what makes a turntable "good" and what makes it "bad" be useful to people? I mean, I feel like most of it has been touched on at various points in this thread, but maybe someone needs to spell it all out in simple terms. It just seems like the same questions are being asked over and over again.

Honestly, turntable technology has essentially stayed the same for years and years and other than build quality and reliability, you're basically looking for two things. First, does the TT spin my records at a steady speed? Second, is it quiet? In other words, when you place the needle on the record, the only sound you want to hear in the music ... not rumble from the platter bearing or vibration from the tonearm (for example).

There are other thing that come into play, like how well does your deck track records, but now we're getting into cartridge / stylus / tonearm territory. Any decent TT that's set up properly is going to track just fine.

Of course, at the end of the day, every turntable has its own sonic characteristics and the only way to tell if you really like something is to actually listen to it. Some TTs sound open and airy, some have a solid bass kick and some are more neutral. One thing is for sure - this can be a complicated, confusing hobby, but once you educate yourself a little bit, I think that the audio equipment side of it is just as fun as the record collecting part.

couldn't agree more man - I really wish there was more equipment threads on this board. not that 800 posts about brand new represses aren't exciting.... but ya'know....

[earnyoursleep]

i just bought a vintage denon receiver model mx-990a.

it didn't come with a manual, and i am having a helluva time trying to find any information about it.

do any of you happen to know the output power on one of these guys? i'd like to make sure i'm buying the appropriate speakers.

any help you guys can give would be great.

thanks.

[Vinyl Fury]

Just picked up a mmf 2.2. Can you guys recommend a receiver and speakers? Not really looking to break the bank. Probably both for around $300? Is this doable?

i have the mmf 2.2 and i'm lovin' it.

if you want a new receiver, this one by harmon kardon is great, has a good phono input - http://www.amazon.com/Harman-Kardon-HK-3390-Receiver/dp/B00198BOAM/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1328777400&sr=8-2

with some sony bookshelf speakers like these - http://www.amazon.com/Sony-SS-B3000-Book....8 777509&sr=1-3

or floor standing speakers like I have - http://www.amazon.com/Sony-SS-F6000-Floorstanding-4-Way-Speakers/dp/B000OG4E20/ref=sr_1_2?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1328777509&sr=1-2

you'll be really happy.

i wish the f6000s were that price when i bought them, but they are well worth more than that.

[bearchuck]

i just bought a vintage denon receiver model mx-990a.

it didn't come with a manual, and i am having a helluva time trying to find any information about it.

do any of you happen to know the output power on one of these guys? i'd like to make sure i'm buying the appropriate speakers.

any help you guys can give would be great.

thanks.

Yipes! I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but I found some info on a couple message boards and they all point to 4 WPC. One of the threads was actually titled "Have I found the cheesiest Denon ever made?"

http://audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=228951

There were also some defenders of that Denon who said it had surprisingly good sound. At the end of the day, you can be the judge.

If I were you, I'd look for a really efficient set of desktop or bookshelf speakers. You should be okay with modest volume levels, but don't attempt to get the party jumping with that setup, if you know what I mean.

This kind of stuff can be really confusing and honestly, sometimes I find it difficult to understand too. A lot of people say that speaker and receiver ratings don't mean all that much because the methods used to measure these things are often all over the place and unreliable. As such, a good general rule is to let your ears be your guide. If you hear distortion or clipping, there's a problem and you should turn down the volume immediately. For the most part, I agree with that.

The funny thing is that if you have a receiver / amp that pumps out a decent amount of power - let's say 100 wpc - you should be fine powering just about any size speaker without damaging anything. Again, we're talking about reasonable volume levels. If it's the other way around - a lower-rated amp with speakers that are less efficient (need more power) - you're much more likely to fry something if you push your amp too far.

[fschoenleber10]

Me and my dad split the price of Crosley when I was dead broke and that thing went to shit fast. I'm looking to start from the ground up and put together my own system now that I have money, the Pro-ject Essential caught my eye and it seems like a good turntable to start off with. Does anyone have experience with it? and sorry if anyone already asked about it.

[bearchuck]

Me and my dad split the price of Crosley when I was dead broke and that thing went to shit fast. I'm looking to start from the ground up and put together my own system now that I have money, the Pro-ject Essential caught my eye and it seems like a good turntable to start off with. Does anyone have experience with it? and sorry if anyone already asked about it.

I can't speak to the Essential directly as I've never heard it, but I'm 100% certain that is a giant step up from your Crosley.

Having said that, I've read a on a few forums that you might want to consider spending just a little more for the Pro-Ject Debut III instead. Depending on which color, looks like you could get the debut for an additional $75 - $100.

Again, I can't tell you why the Debut is better than the Essentiall, but I'd wager it's the tonearm ... and probably specs like wow & flutter. Oh yeah, the Essential's wow and flutter is 0.25%, which is more than double the Debut's 0.12% (lower is better).

[stuckpig]

Just picked up a mmf 2.2. Can you guys recommend a receiver and speakers? Not really looking to break the bank. Probably both for around $300? Is this doable?

i have the mmf 2.2 and i'm lovin' it.

if you want a new receiver, this one by harmon kardon is great, has a good phono input - http://www.amazon.com/Harman-Kardon-HK-3390-Receiver/dp/B00198BOAM/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1328777400&sr=8-2

with some sony bookshelf speakers like these - http://www.amazon.com/Sony-SS-B3000-Book....8 777509&sr=1-3

or floor standing speakers like I have - http://www.amazon.com/Sony-SS-F6000-Floorstanding-4-Way-Speakers/dp/B000OG4E20/ref=sr_1_2?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1328777509&sr=1-2

you'll be really happy.

i wish the f6000s were that price when i bought them, but they are well worth more than that.

Have you heard anything about this one?

http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B001AMSPQI/ref=aw_ls_1_4?coliid=I2ZR1FVTR9N7V8&colid=2BDXMPDR8HJHE

[bearchuck]

Would a post about what makes a turntable "good" and what makes it "bad" be useful to people? I mean, I feel like most of it has been touched on at various points in this thread, but maybe someone needs to spell it all out in simple terms. It just seems like the same questions are being asked over and over again.

Honestly, turntable technology has essentially stayed the same for years and years and other than build quality and reliability, you're basically looking for two things. First, does the TT spin my records at a steady speed? Second, is it quiet? In other words, when you place the needle on the record, the only sound you want to hear in the music ... not rumble from the platter bearing or vibration from the tonearm (for example).

There are other thing that come into play, like how well does your deck track records, but now we're getting into cartridge / stylus / tonearm territory. Any decent TT that's set up properly is going to track just fine.

Of course, at the end of the day, every turntable has its own sonic characteristics and the only way to tell if you really like something is to actually listen to it. Some TTs sound open and airy, some have a solid bass kick and some are more neutral. One thing is for sure - this can be a complicated, confusing hobby, but once you educate yourself a little bit, I think that the audio equipment side of it is just as fun as the record collecting part.

couldn't agree more man - I really wish there was more equipment threads on this board. not that 800 posts about brand new represses aren't exciting.... but ya'know....

I think that getting into the audio equipment side of things can be very daunting for kids, and a lot of them simply want to find a decent sounding, reliable set up and be done with it. I totally get it.

Personally, I love vinyl records and I love having sweet equipment that's capable of pulling amazing sound from the grooves of an LP or 7". There's definitely a symbiotic relationship between the two sides and if you're willing to learn, I think that the payoff is truly rewarding. Honestly, it's made me not care that much about the collectibility aspect of the hobby. Sure, it's nice to have the rarest color variant, but all I really want is one copy of the record to listen to because damn ... there's just something about the sweet sound of vinyl that appeals to me. The whole process of playing a record is so much more engaging than listening to a CD or my iPod.

And since we're on the topic of equipment, for my next post ...

[bearchuck]

VINTAGE SPEAKERS!

Admittedly I know nothing about newer speakers, but I do love me some vintage gear. Since so many people have been asking about speakers lately, I thought I'd compile a list of some notable vintage gear that can be found via Craigslist and the like. A good chunk of these can be found for anywhere from $50 - $200. Some go for more, but at least this list will give you a good place to start if you're interested in used speakers from the 70s and 80s.

A quick disclaimer - while I've heard (and used) some of these, there's a lot that I have no experience with. However, most are speakers that are generally well-regarded by vintage nuts. Also, with older equipment there's always a greater chance that something goes wrong or needs repair, but if you can buy it from someone who has treated it well and better yet, done work to keep it up to spec, all the better.

Most of these are considered "bookshelf." However, with vintage speakers, normally that means anything from 15 inches to 25 inches tall. You'll need some sturdy shelves.

On that note ...

KEF 103.2, 104ab

Dynaco A-25 or A-10

Advent Loudspeaker, Smaller Advent Loudspeakers, Baby Advents

EPI 70, 100

Genesis model 1+ or 10

Avid 100, 102a

KLH Model 5, 6, 17 or 24

AR2 through AR7

A/D/S L810, L710 or L570

Wharfedale W40, W60

Klipsch KG-1, KG-1.5, KG-2, KG-3

Boston Acoustics A40, A60, A70

JBL 4408, L96

Dahlquist DQ-6, DQ-8, DQ-10, DQ-20

Mission 70MkII, 770, 771, 773

Frazier MK IV, MK V

Pioneer HPM-40, HPM-60, HPM-100

Celestion DL8

PSB Model 40

Infinity Qe or RSe

Yamaha NS-690II

Altec 890C

Cizek Model 1, 2

Ohm C2

B&W DM4, DM2

Realistic Mach 1

Burhoe Blues

[Vinyl Fury]

Have you heard anything about this one?

http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B001AMSPQI/ref=aw_ls_1_4?coliid=I2ZR1FVTR9N7V8&colid=2BDXMPDR8HJHE

I have looked at it before. Good price and onkyo is good, but the HK has more power and ability, and probably a slightly better phono input. Id say it would be worth the extra dough, personally.

[kriss]

We have a set of vintage 'bookshelf' speakers for our main set up in our living room - those things are nearly two and a half feet tall and delivery crazy punch though.

[ruben]

Isn't it annoying to manually move the belt to change from 33rpm to 45rpm with the Rega P3 & the Pro-ject debut III turntables?

And doens't that affect the lifetime of the belt?

That's the only thing that's holding me back atm to buy one of those.

(Does anyone has an opinion about "Audio Technica AT-LP120-USB"? It was asked before by someone else here but I didn't saw a reply.)

[dangerben]

Isn't it annoying to manually move the belt to change from 33rpm to 45rpm with the Rega P3 & the Pro-ject debut III turntables?

And doens't that affect the lifetime of the belt?

That's the only thing that's holding me back atm to buy one of those.

(Does anyone has an opinion about "Audio Technica AT-LP120-USB"? It was asked before by someone else here but I didn't saw a reply.)

not really, no. it is such a quick and painless process to change it over. I cant speak for the regas but the pro-ject tables come with a little tool that allows you to change the belt.

in saying that - and i've said it before on this forum, you can spend a little bit extra and pick up the speedbox accessory pictured below

http://www.project-audio.com/main.php?prod=speedbox&cat=boxes〈=en

It stops you having to lift the platter and apparently improves the overall speed reliability of the table.

[jase]

Isn't it annoying to manually move the belt to change from 33rpm to 45rpm with the Rega P3 & the Pro-ject debut III turntables?

And doens't that affect the lifetime of the belt?

That's the only thing that's holding me back atm to buy one of those.

(Does anyone has an opinion about "Audio Technica AT-LP120-USB"? It was asked before by someone else here but I didn't saw a reply.)

It literally tales 5 seconds on the regas. When you're changing the record, lift the platter off, slide the belt to the other pulley, put the platter back on. In saying how easy it is, I'm the laziest SOB on the planet so I've got two tables hahaha one for 7's and my rega for 12's