sergeantscruffy Posted May 11, 2012 Share Posted May 11, 2012 Packed it up all nice an everything. Now the buyer is pissed and wants a refund. Even though they didn't pay for insurance, I'm reading eBay TOS and it seems like this is still somehow my fault. Is there anything I can do, or am I pretty much fucked and out of a record and money on this one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GradedOnACurve Posted May 11, 2012 Share Posted May 11, 2012 As much as it sucks I'm pretty sure its on the seller to provide insurance. Sorry man Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raindownonme23 Posted May 11, 2012 Share Posted May 11, 2012 I just don't understand. The post office should be paying for it. I love America. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
circuit bored records Posted May 11, 2012 Share Posted May 11, 2012 I don't see what stops a buyer from bending the package themselves when they get it and then filing a claim through eBay. It's not like USPS would respond one way or the other or have some sort of proof that they didn't bend it. I bought a Kindle on eBay once and the seller shipped it completely bare inside of a huge bubble mailer with no extra padding. Needless to say the kindle arrived with a cracked screen, and the seller was a huge dick and said that he offered insurance (when he clearly didn't) and that I declined so it was my fault and he would only give a half refund for it. He basically came out and accused me of cracking it myself too in email and also when he left feedback. Needless to say, eBay gave me my full refund. But yeah, shittily enough everything is always weighted in favor of the buyer in these types of situations, although eBay handles these things on a "case by case" basis. Maybe in the future USPS can implement a system where there's some sort of verification of the condition of the package upon sending / receiving. Until then, the seller should offer insurance and make it VERY clear through email/message that the package CANNOT be guaranteed otherwise. If the seller doesn't do this the buyer can't really be faulted for not randomly including extra money for shipping insurance when they weren't offered it in the first place. Just my two cents. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lemongoat Posted May 11, 2012 Share Posted May 11, 2012 I don't see what stops a buyer from bending the package themselves when they get it and then filing a claim through eBay. It's not like USPS would respond one way or the other or have some sort of proof that they didn't bend it. But yeah, shittily enough everything is always weighted in favor of the buyer in these types of situations, although eBay handles these things on a "case by case" basis. Maybe in the future USPS can implement a system where there's some sort of verification of the condition of the package upon sending / receiving. Until then, the seller should offer insurance and make it VERY clear through email/message that the package CANNOT be guaranteed otherwise. If the seller doesn't do this the buyer can't really be faulted for not randomly including extra money for shipping insurance when they weren't offered it in the first place. Just my two cents. I bought a Kindle on eBay once and the seller shipped it completely bare inside of a huge bubble mailer with no extra padding. Needless to say the kindle arrived with a cracked screen, and the seller was a huge dick and said that he offered insurance (when he clearly didn't) and that I declined so it was my fault and he would only give a half refund for it. He basically came out and accused me of cracking it myself too in email and also when he left feedback. Needless to say, eBay gave me my full refund. All a buyer has to do is say it's bent. The seller, assuming it was a price not worth the hastle, will have no choice but to refund while the buyer keeps the record. It's a dumb system. I think the risk should be on the buyer, not the seller. Or at least factor in feedback. I'm dealing with a case right now where the guy says he didn't get it. We have 200+ feedback each. He doesn't doubt I sent it, and I don't doubt that he didn't receive it. But he refuses to compromise, wants a full refund, and I'll have no choice but to give it. I pay out my ass in fees, Ebay should be able to tell I'm not going to not send somthing and cover the cost. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
circuit bored records Posted May 11, 2012 Share Posted May 11, 2012 All a buyer has to do is say it's bent. The seller, assuming it was a price not worth the hastle, will have no choice but to refund while the buyer keeps the record. It's a dumb system. I think the risk should be on the buyer, not the seller. Or at least factor in feedback. I'm dealing with a case right now where the guy says he didn't get it. We have 200+ feedback each. He doesn't doubt I sent it, and I don't doubt that he didn't receive it. But he refuses to compromise, wants a full refund, and I'll have no choice but to give it. I pay out my ass in fees, Ebay should be able to tell I'm not going to not send somthing and cover the cost. Well, a seller should never refund anything without receiving a product back first. If a buyer is unhappy with a product I always offer a full refund, as long as they mail the item back and I receive it in the condition they claim it's in. If they don't want to mail it back but still want a refund they can file a claim but eBay will still make them send the item back with tracking before issuing a refund, and also refund all seller fees that may have been charged to the account. So it's not a "dumb system" but it's not without its flaws. As for your other problem, did you get a DC#? It's only 75 cents or something at the PO and should be covered in the $4 shipping cost on eBay. You may have learned this lesson the hard way but always always always get tracking! If you send internationally make sure to give rates for both parcel post and registered air mail. That way if the buyer declines any higher postal service with tracking, eBay will see it in the case and it would weigh more in the sellers favor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lemongoat Posted May 11, 2012 Share Posted May 11, 2012 All a buyer has to do is say it's bent. The seller, assuming it was a price not worth the hastle, will have no choice but to refund while the buyer keeps the record. It's a dumb system. I think the risk should be on the buyer, not the seller. Or at least factor in feedback. I'm dealing with a case right now where the guy says he didn't get it. We have 200+ feedback each. He doesn't doubt I sent it, and I don't doubt that he didn't receive it. But he refuses to compromise, wants a full refund, and I'll have no choice but to give it. I pay out my ass in fees, Ebay should be able to tell I'm not going to not send somthing and cover the cost. Well, a seller should never refund anything without receiving a product back first. If a buyer is unhappy with a product I always offer a full refund, as long as they mail the item back and I receive it in the condition they claim it's in. If they don't want to mail it back but still want a refund they can file a claim but eBay will still make them send the item back with tracking before issuing a refund, and also refund all seller fees that may have been charged to the account. So it's not a "dumb system" but it's not without its flaws. As for your other problem, did you get a DC#? It's only 75 cents or something at the PO and should be covered in the $4 shipping cost on eBay. You may have learned this lesson the hard way but always always always get tracking! If you send internationally make sure to give rates for both parcel post and registered air mail. That way if the buyer declines any higher postal service with tracking, eBay will see it in the case and it would weigh more in the sellers favor. This is very good to know, thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
natealcatraz Posted May 11, 2012 Share Posted May 11, 2012 I make sure my records ship out with a Fragile or Handle with care sticker/stamp on it. rudeboydh 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ticotico Posted May 11, 2012 Share Posted May 11, 2012 I make sure my records ship out with a Fragile or Handle with care sticker/stamp on it. this. but it sucks when this kind of stuff happens. out of your control. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trashbum86 Posted May 11, 2012 Share Posted May 11, 2012 I add explicitly in the shipping note that if concerned of damage please request insurance and I mark the packages with fragile in red sharpie, who knows if USPS acknowledge that. I would ask for a picture or for the buyer to return the damaged record. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 11, 2012 Share Posted May 11, 2012 I thought that the buyer was supposed to pay extra for insurance in order to be protected, but knowing ebay it was probably a crock of shit. This is one of the many reasons I refuse to sell on ebay...the extra money potential is nowhere near worth the potential hassle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattisr1984 Posted May 11, 2012 Share Posted May 11, 2012 tell the buyer to send the record back and you will issue a refund. Unfortunately, this is the risk you assume when you sell anything. Its within your right to ask for the record back first though - much like any other return policy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
circuit bored records Posted May 11, 2012 Share Posted May 11, 2012 I thought that the buyer was supposed to pay extra for insurance in order to be protected, but knowing ebay it was probably a crock of shit. This is one of the many reasons I refuse to sell on ebay...the extra money potential is nowhere near worth the potential hassle. If you buy something on eBay, you get sent an invoice from the seller with the exact amount you are supposed to pay for the item + shipping. A buyer can't magically figure out how much insurance costs on their own, and if they aren't offered it to begin with the only assumption is that it isn't offered, period. So if the package arrives damaged they are in the right because they never had a choice of shipping options. Sure, they could go out of their way to message the seller and ask about it, but it's really not their responsibility to do that. This is why it's important as a seller to specify EXACT amounts for regular/priorty shipping, even when shipping domestically, so that the buyer knows exactly the service they are getting. Let them know in plain english that if they choose the cheaper shipping option the package will not be guaranteed. That way if it arrives f'ed up, the seller cannot be held liable. The invoice will show both shipping options and the buyer chose the cheaper one on their own accord, fully knowing the package and its condition isn't guaranteed. I've won multiple eBay cases as a seller because of this simple procedure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snaggle Von Swift Posted May 11, 2012 Share Posted May 11, 2012 Really shitty that eBay also took away the option to add insurance on a listing. With records being at a $4.00 maximum shipping, there needs to be a line option to add insurance with the price for that. eBay looks at insurance as either being covered in that $4.00 or on the seller. You can put it in the description of the listing, but I am sure most people will play dumb and ebay (as usual) will side in favor of the buyer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gmoney Posted May 11, 2012 Share Posted May 11, 2012 tell the buyer to send the record back and you will issue a refund. Unfortunately, this is the risk you assume when you sell anything. Its within your right to ask for the record back first though - much like any other return policy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bgdesign Posted May 11, 2012 Share Posted May 11, 2012 eBay has a new policy that you can't require a buyer to buy insurance, even though the seller takes responsibility if it gets broken. It's a crappy policy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madtired Posted May 11, 2012 Share Posted May 11, 2012 I used to hate this policy when ebay started to mess with it until it was explained from a different perspective. If you buy something from Amazon.com or ANY online retailer, they are responsible for the item until it gets to you safely, regardless of whether you purchase insurance or not (which generally isn't an option on most e-commerce websites). The fact that individual ebay sellers want the buyer to be responsible for items damaged in transit is not providing good service as a seller. You can state it all you want in the auction, but technically, the buyer would be in the right every single time if you did not insure the package yourself. You as a seller are providing a service and if you don't want to take ownership for what you are selling when you entrust it to a shipping service, then you may want to rethink selling things that require shipping. At the very least, if you have an expensive item, factor the price of insurance into your asking price (and note that as such in your posting). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sergeantscruffy Posted May 11, 2012 Author Share Posted May 11, 2012 Yeah, I know I'm going to have to issue a refund, it just sucks, you know? Anyone interested in a copy of Smashing Pumpkins' Gish with a terribly mangled cover? lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smailtronic Posted May 11, 2012 Share Posted May 11, 2012 With records being at a $4.00 maximum shipping If you specify "shipping based on recipients location" when you post your listing, instead of "flat fee", you are not held to the $4 limit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fourfourtwo Posted May 11, 2012 Share Posted May 11, 2012 I always take a picture of my package, with the sellers address clearly visible at the post office before I mail it (they look at you funny, but whatever). One time, a buyer tried to pull this on me, and tried to file a claim. I provided a picture of the package with the stamp/delivery conf on it, and pretty much said I had fulfilled my part of the bargain and it was beyond my control. I won the case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
somethingvinyl Posted May 11, 2012 Share Posted May 11, 2012 This happened to me about a month ago. It's worse than it looks: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sugar Shane Posted May 11, 2012 Share Posted May 11, 2012 This happened to me about a month ago. It's worse than it looks: Wow. I wish everyone packed records like a tank with 2 pieces of cardboard inside a mailer and bubble wrap and wrote "do not bend" on it. This is ridiculous. I haven't personally had any problems with USPS, but damn that's messed up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 11, 2012 Share Posted May 11, 2012 GOD I FUCKING HATE IT WHEN THEY PUT MY RECORDS IN THE MAILBOX LIKE THAT!!!!! Sorry for the caps, but my mailpeople did that shit to me and you can't even get it out through the front of the box without bending it. I eventually started cutting/ripping the box open while it was inside the mailbox so I could get the record out without risking damage from bending. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
somethingvinyl Posted May 11, 2012 Share Posted May 11, 2012 Wow. I wish everyone packed records like a tank with 2 pieces of cardboard inside a mailer and bubble wrap and wrote "do not bend" on it. This is ridiculous. I haven't personally had any problems with USPS, but damn that's messed up. To be fair, it was a $5 7", and the seller is someone on the boards, he mailed it in stiff cardboard, wrote "Do not bend" on it, and offered me free shipping on a future order because the USPS fucked it up. GOD I FUCKING HATE IT WHEN THEY PUT MY RECORDS IN THE MAILBOX LIKE THAT!!!!!Sorry for the caps, but my mailpeople did that shit to me and you can't even get it out through the front of the box without bending it. I eventually started cutting/ripping the box open while it was inside the mailbox so I could get the record out without risking damage from bending. It's bent, clearly, but like you said, I had to bend it more to get it out. I have a regular guy that brings LPs to my door and is polite. I tell him all the time he's the best and the rest are douches. Unfortunately, they switch him around a lot and I get the laziest bastards that leave slips to pick up at the post office. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
srcvinyl Posted May 11, 2012 Share Posted May 11, 2012 This happens all the time. Paypal will tell you its your fault as well. Even when you offer the customer insurance and they decline. Sometimes I swear USPS purposely bends them in half! We had a USPS rep put a pizza on the package. I suspect a WHOLE pizza. The customers records were soaked in pizza grease. It went right through the box. That happened about 8 months ago. I complained over and over as for that is COMPLETELY unacceptable and COMPLETELY avoidable. We still had to pay for the records. USPS did nothing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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