thebiglebowski Posted January 13, 2016 Share Posted January 13, 2016 It's a team sport. You can't say it's all about the individuals when it is convenient. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stl_ben Posted January 13, 2016 Share Posted January 13, 2016 If a player is cought cheating, doing drugs, or gambling...they are banned and punished, not the whole team. Why would this be any different. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3arl Posted January 13, 2016 Share Posted January 13, 2016 If a player is cought cheating, doing drugs, or gambling...they are banned and punished, not the whole team. Why would this be any different. A single player has an effect on their individual performance. If a player is caught doping then their individual performance is punished (i.e. suspension/expulsion). So if you extend that same punishment logic to a front office executive with an influence on scouting and drafting, then the punishment should have an effect on that (i.e. loss of draft picks). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stl_ben Posted January 13, 2016 Share Posted January 13, 2016 Losing draft picks isn't hurting the person who did the crime. It's hurting others that have nothing to do with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stl_ben Posted January 13, 2016 Share Posted January 13, 2016 It's like if a bank got robbed by some one who worked there. Then person was caught and goes to jail. But all the other workers that worked there didn't get their annual bonus as a punishment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3arl Posted January 13, 2016 Share Posted January 13, 2016 It's like if a bank got robbed by some one who worked there. Then person was caught and goes to jail. But all the other workers that worked there didn't get their annual bonus as a punishment. In that analogy only the person who robbed the place gets any benefit. In this scenario the whole organization benefits Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sacredheart Posted January 13, 2016 Share Posted January 13, 2016 Wow yes he should definitely be banned from MLB for life + whatever the court decides to do with him. However, not sure why the team should be penalized.Penalize players & owners that had nothing to do with it? Also this isn't just because Im a Cardinal fan. I find it dumb that college teams get banned when coaches do something wrong. SO some 18 year old kid gets penalized? Do you believe that he accessed this information but then didn't tell the cards any of it? He got the info for the betterment of his team not for personal use. A better analogy is a teller from one bank robs anther bank and gives his bank the money. Both the teller and the bank would get in trouble. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stl_ben Posted January 13, 2016 Share Posted January 13, 2016 Do you believe that he accessed this information but then didn't tell the cards any of it? He got the info for the betterment of his team not for personal use. A better analogy is a teller from one bank robs anther bank and gives his bank the money. Both the teller and the bank would get in trouble. I think if they found any evidence other people in the organization knew or complied then yes they should also get in trouble. But if the teller stole money, and gave it to the manager without them having any knowledge of it, why would they get in trouble too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebiglebowski Posted January 13, 2016 Share Posted January 13, 2016 I guess I need to read all the details of the story but even without doing so, I find it hard to believe someone in an organization had access to private scouting data and it in no way was shared with anyone else or in any way affected the outcome of the draft. I think you can make a strong argument that a team should be punished when a player roids. I find it hard to believe that no coaches/trainers know it is going on and aren't complicit in supporting it. It is a deterrent to the future use of roids because it puts the responsibility on the teams to clean up their locker rooms rather than sign guys who are known roiders and just not pay them when they eventually get suspended. I think the biggest difference here is just that one is a union bargained discipline process and the other is run more like a non-Union business where the president has more power and discretion when laying the hammer down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stravinsky Posted January 17, 2016 Share Posted January 17, 2016 Losing draft picks isn't hurting the person who did the crime. It's hurting others that have nothing to do with it. He was one of the highest ranking employees in their front office. Stop being a homer. Others in that front office knew of his actions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stl_ben Posted January 17, 2016 Share Posted January 17, 2016 He was one of the highest ranking employees in their front office. Stop being a homer. Others in that front office knew of his actions. Not being a homer, and if others knew then as I said more should be done to them. I just haven't read anything saying others knew. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stravinsky Posted January 18, 2016 Share Posted January 18, 2016 Not being a homer, and if others knew then as I said more should be done to them. I just haven't read anything saying others knew. Of course they knew! Correa was sitting at a table during the 2014 draft with Dewitt, Mozeliak, Girsch, etc. Six months later he was promoted to Scouting Director and reporting directly to Mozeliak. Nobody is saying anything as to not incriminate the entire organization, and rightfully so. They are a very intelligent front office. If I was a Cardinal fan, I would care less about losing draft picks. Sprinkle a little bit of that pixie dust on a 40th rounder and you're looking at the next 30/30 guy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stl_ben Posted January 18, 2016 Share Posted January 18, 2016 Of course they knew! Correa was sitting at a table during the draft in question with Dewitt, Mozeliak, Girsch, etc. Six months later he was promoted to Scouting Director and reporting directly to Mozeliak. Nobody is saying anything as to not incriminate the entire organization. As I said if there is any proof that others knew then yes the organization should be penalized. But if it is one person doing wrong on his own, then its not everyone elses fault. I despise Ryan Braun, and when he finally got in trouble with steroids he was penalized, not the whole team. Did other people on the team know, possibly, but we don't know for sure, so no one else was penalized (that I know of). I really hope this doesn't turn into the NFL were teams/players are suspended/penalized without proof. It's bad enough Shoeless Joe is banned because his teammates threw a game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebiglebowski Posted January 18, 2016 Share Posted January 18, 2016 If we could put it to vote I think VC would deem you being a homer. Not that we aren't all homers once in a while, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stl_ben Posted January 18, 2016 Share Posted January 18, 2016 If we could put it to vote I think VC would deem you being a homer. Not that we aren't all homers once in a while, though. Fair enough....but my argument goes inline with what I posted about other teams as well (see my previous post.) This is what I think about the case regardless of my team or another one. That being said if they want to punish the team, ban them from the playoffs this year (because they aren't going to be in them anyway, pretty sure Cubs are running away with the division this year.) This is a joke of course as I don't think a team should be banned from playoffs for the works of any one man. (Just used it as a funny choice as Mizzou just self banned their basketball team from the playoffs, even though they suck this year.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stl_ben Posted January 18, 2016 Share Posted January 18, 2016 Oh yeah to tie it back into my original argument. Mizzou coaching/staff broke some rules and one of the punishments is one less scholarship for next year. This is a horrible rule. Hey millionaires you messed up, so now some kid can't go to college. Not exactly the same with pro sports, but one less draft pick means one less guy gets drafted, and that means some guy out of college doesn't get a job because some suit did something dumb. Punish the suit, not the kid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abovetheearth Posted January 18, 2016 Share Posted January 18, 2016 not a good year for Mizzou. nor for that state. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stl_ben Posted January 18, 2016 Share Posted January 18, 2016 not a good year for Mizzou. nor for that state. It's been a good year for Kansas City, just not for STL & Columbia. Mizzou bad football & basketball + Sanctions + protests/riots Rams gone Cardinals - this front office trouble Blues - well they are the Blues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catalinacaper Posted January 19, 2016 Share Posted January 19, 2016 Anyone else following the collective action lawsuit of minor league players against the MLB/MiLB for minimum-wage violations? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Posted January 19, 2016 Share Posted January 19, 2016 Yeah, i havent heard any movement on the topic though, is there an update? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebiglebowski Posted January 19, 2016 Share Posted January 19, 2016 Tigers sign Justin Upton for 6 years? That came out of nowhere Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catalinacaper Posted January 19, 2016 Share Posted January 19, 2016 Tigers sign Justin Upton for 6 years? That came out of nowhere I don't get it. When Illitch finally kicks the bucket he's going to leave that team in shambles with all the aging huge contracts. Can you really say that Upton is going to elevate the Tigers to WS winners? I suppose satiating the fan base in the short term is worth something. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catalinacaper Posted January 19, 2016 Share Posted January 19, 2016 Yeah, i havent heard any movement on the topic though, is there an update? Nothing outside of rumblings from players about opinions either way. I think they have until Feb 11th to commit. Just wanted to change the subject.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mac1 Posted February 11, 2016 Share Posted February 11, 2016 Got something today about a settlement with MLB.TV and subscribers. After a brief read-thru looks as though you still cannot get in-market games, which the lawsuit was about, but the full subscription prices are being lowered for the next 5 years. Subscribers now can purchase a 1-team season ticket. I believe there might be something about in-market games if you have "proof" you would receive the game thru your cable system. Maybe someone else can weigh in and clarify some other benefits of the settlement. Everything about the package is excellent except the in-market games and playoffs are not included. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YouTwo Posted February 15, 2016 Share Posted February 15, 2016 I've had MLB TV before and I really like it. I'm technology out of market for the Phillies so it works good for me. The single team plan is 84.99. At that price you may as well just buy the full package at 109.99. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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