MLB Discussion

[sgoodcore]

Eh, there's been a paradigm shift in how players bat with two strikes and how much they're concerned with the strikeout. That's drastically changed batting average and power numbers.

[dynamitekid]

talking about good infields, how about the mid 90's Baltimore Orioles. Alomar, Ripken and Palmeiro. The 2000 Cleveland Indians had Thome, Vizquel, Alomar and Travis Fryman.

[sgoodcore]

Alomar, Ripken, Palmeiro at the least gives this year's Yankee infield a run for their money.

[flood]

has anyone looked at the MLB.com all time 9s?

you can go through every team and vote for the single best year at each position... essentially building a true best historical lineup for every team... some of the picks are surprising when you see the random dudes who had career years and ran away with that best 1 year performance on individual teams.

[mediocore]

As far as all-time infields (in the modern era), you can't ignore the Big Red Machine. Plus, they were a solid group for something like six years, which definitely puts them above this year's Yankees.

As far as this year goes, let's not get ahead of ourselves with the Yankees. For example, look at the Rays:

NYY	VORP	RC	WAR	UZR/150 (Def.)
Teixeira	62.1	109	5.1	-0.9
Cano	41.9	75	3.8	-5.8
A. Rodriguez	43.6	80	3.9	-9.4
Jeter	62.1	103	6.7	5.9

195.036719.5-10.2

TBVORPRCWARUZR/150 (Def.)Pena24.2922.8-3.8Zobrist50.31007.48.7Longoria51.3986.713.4Bartlett55.9944.6-5.4

181.738421.512.9

Keep in mind that this factors in a shortened season from Pena; his numbers likely would have been higher had he played a full season.

(Data's from Baseball Prospectus and Fan Graphs. VORP = Value Over Replacement Player; RC = Runs Created; WAR = Wins Above Replacement; UZR/150 = Ultimate Zone Rating per 150 games.)

[mcm1610]

I don't know what ANY of that means.

[sgoodcore]

That's why they make Wikipedia but I think VORP, RC, and WAR are pretty straight forward.

[sgoodcore]

So, was Lidge exceedingly lucky last year or has he just exploded this year?

[danthemjfan23]

i think a little from column A and a little from column B. obviously last year was a career year, but i think this year isn't the true pitcher he really is either. i'm curious to see what he does next year if somebody takes a chance on him.

[travis]

I don't know what ANY of that means.

[sgoodcore]

i think a little from column A and a little from column B. obviously last year was a career year, but i think this year isn't the true pitcher he really is either. i'm curious to see what he does next year if somebody takes a chance on him.

Weird part for me when the Dodgers played them was Lidge got saves but he got hit hard and always had runners on base too.

Why do you guys insist on putting your head in the sand about newer statistical metrics? VORP, RC, and WAR are good ways of looking at players. They're added tools to how you see things happen on the field. I just don't get why they're considered the domain of the super geek.

[¯\_(ツ)_/¯]

the pirates had 15,000 tickets sold for todays daytime game on the first day of the g20 summit. of those tickets sold, 2,300 people showed up. LOLOLOL

[travis]

i think a little from column A and a little from column B. obviously last year was a career year, but i think this year isn't the true pitcher he really is either. i'm curious to see what he does next year if somebody takes a chance on him.

Weird part for me when the Dodgers played them was Lidge got saves but he got hit hard and always had runners on base too.

Why do you guys insist on putting your head in the sand about newer statistical metrics? VORP, RC, and WAR are good ways of looking at players. They're added tools to how you see things happen on the field. I just don't get why they're considered the domain of the super geek.

Im not putting my head in the sand...just when it gets THAT in depth it loses the fun for me. I like watching baseball, I dont want to have to study it like its a math book. If people like those stats then more power too 'em. Just not something Im interested in.

[mcm1610]

That's why they make Wikipedia but I think VORP, RC, and WAR are pretty straight forward.

How does their "WAR" tell me anything relevant about the player?

Give me basic stats. That's why I can't follow baseball as much as I'd like, because you get to a certain depth where it's just absurd the stats they start pulling out.

"With 2 outs, 2 balls and a strike, men on first and third, with a set-up man who has thrown 23 pitches in this one inning, he has been 2 for 4 with a HBP and one HR."

Christ, what's his average? How many RBIs does he have?

[mediocore]

Christ, what's his average? How many RBIs does he have?

Average = rudimentary stat that barely tells you anything. Who's more valuable, Player A who hits .370 or Player B who hits .290? You'd probably say Player A. But what if I told you Player A hit ALL singles; Player B hit 67 HR. That changes things a bit, no?

As for RBI -- what does that really tell us? Someone playing for the Yankees (i.e., Teixeira) is going to have WAAAAAY more RBI opportunities than someone playing for Minnesota (Mauer). When you look deeper, Teixeira has only driven in 16.8% of runners on base during his ABs while Mauer has driven in 19.6%. Puts things in more of a context, no?

Advanced stats are nothing to be afraid of and they're often very simple to understand. It's crazy that it took so long for OBP, SLG and OPS to become mainstream...

[¯\_(ツ)_/¯]

Christ, what's his average? How many RBIs does he have?

Average = rudimentary stat that barely tells you anything. Who's more valuable, Player A who hits .370 or Player B who hits .290? You'd probably say Player A. But what if I told you Player A hit ALL singles; Player B hit 67 HR. That changes things a bit, no?

As for RBI -- what does that really tell us? Someone playing for the Yankees (i.e., Teixeira) is going to have WAAAAAY more RBI opportunities than someone playing for Minnesota (Mauer). When you look deeper, Teixeira has only driven in 16.8% of runners on base during his ABs while Mauer has driven in 19.6%. Puts things in more of a context, no?

Advanced stats are nothing to be afraid of and they're often very simple to understand. It's crazy that it took so long for OBP, SLG and OPS to become mainstream...

but of all of the singles A. hits, how many of those become runs? i'd say someone who hits .370 and scores 90 times is far better than someone who hits way less and only for homers.

[mediocore]

but of all of the singles A. hits, how many of those become runs? i'd say someone who hits .370 and scores 90 times is far better than someone who hits way less and only for homers.

Well the Player B in this hypothetical situation scores at least 67 runs. Let's say he walks 100 times too.

Maybe my example was a little flawed, but you can't ignore the fact that batting average doesn't even begin to tell the whole story of how valuable a player is offensively. There's so much more goes into it (walks, power, etc.).

[flood]

[sgoodcore]

You may not be interested in higher level stats but don't come around quoting other stats like they tell a story then. You can't pick and choose what stats are valid. You take them all or you take none of them. And if you take none of them, fine, you don't run a team you don't need to care.

In any regard, you can't say Batting Average means something but other more intricately derived stats don't. Fact is, batting average is a horrid stat and frankly so is ERA. Most often than not pitchers pitch against a guys OBP since that's measures how likely the guy is to reach base. So right there you can start to see how batting average is mostly silly. And pitchers rely on 7, sometimes 8 other guys to make plays behind them or their ERA suffers. And even official scorers have a decent amount to do with a pitcher's ERA.

[mediocore]

You may not be interested in higher level stats but don't come around quoting other stats like they tell a story then. You can't pick and choose what stats are valid. You take them all or you take none of them. And if you take none of them, fine, you don't run a team you don't need to care.

In any regard, you can't say Batting Average means something but other more intricately derived stats don't. Fact is, batting average is a horrid stat and frankly so is ERA. Most often than not pitchers pitch against a guys OBP since that's measures how likely the guy is to reach base. So right there you can start to see how batting average is mostly silly. And pitchers rely on 7, sometimes 8 other guys to make plays behind them or their ERA suffers. And even official scorers have a decent amount to do with a pitcher's ERA.

Word.

You can't just go around saying that the Yankees have the best infield ever and then completely brush off stats when they might prove otherwise.

[sgoodcore]

You may not be interested in higher level stats but don't come around quoting other stats like they tell a story then. You can't pick and choose what stats are valid. You take them all or you take none of them. And if you take none of them, fine, you don't run a team you don't need to care.

In any regard, you can't say Batting Average means something but other more intricately derived stats don't. Fact is, batting average is a horrid stat and frankly so is ERA. Most often than not pitchers pitch against a guys OBP since that's measures how likely the guy is to reach base. So right there you can start to see how batting average is mostly silly. And pitchers rely on 7, sometimes 8 other guys to make plays behind them or their ERA suffers. And even official scorers have a decent amount to do with a pitcher's ERA.

Word.

You can't just go around saying that the Yankees have the best infield ever and then completely brush off stats when they might prove otherwise.

But, but, but, but, Derek Jeter is the best shortstop ever!

(I keed, I keed, he's a great player, one of the all-time greats but A-Rod is a WAY better shortstop as a fielder but people don't want to hear that because Jeter makes hussle plays.)

ON A SIDE NOTE:

Learn the name Matt Kemp. He has an outside chance of going 30-30, hitting over .300, having a OBP of .360+, having a S% of .500+, and 100 RBIs.

[mediocore]

Cards finally clinched. Next stop: HFA in the first round!

Edit: Almost forgot...

[danthemjfan23]

actually....

cy young.

[mediocore]

...

Dammit... I knew that picture looked too modern to be true!

[sgoodcore]

Cards finally clinched. Next stop: HFA in the first round!

Edit: Almost forgot...

Now explain to me how Lincecum doesn't get his second Cy?

Lower ERA than Wainwright, more strikeouts in less innings pitched, less runs - but in 9 less innings. The only thing Wainwright has is a better team around him and therefore more wins. Wainwright has walked less men but he's given up way more hits. Lincecum's WHIP is 1.06 and Wainwright's is 1.22. Lincecum also has the lowest OBPS against of any starter. Its 21 overall but all 20 ahead of him are relievers. Carpenter looks like the next closest at 27 overall. Tim's got 4 CGs and 2 SOs. Wainwright only has a single CG.

Its gotta be Timmy again; best pitcher in the NL for many, many years.