MLB Discussion

[garrygumguru]

I don't watch much baseball, but I was watching the Twins game when I was over visiting my grandpa and there was the weirdest out at the end of the game. I'm so glad I'm not a Rangers fan...they probably would have won had it not been for that call.

http://espn.go.com/blog/dallas/texas-rangers/post/_/id/4853767/coach-interference-call-ends-rangers-rally

[mcm1610]

Did you see the one player take a foul ball in the face when he was in the on-deck circle? That's so scary.

[dynamitekid]

I can't even imagine.

[311thrice]

I'm worried about the Rangers. I really didn't think they'd fall apart this bad. Our pitching has been absolutely terrible. The only glimmer of hope that the Rangers have is that the rest of the division is sucking just as bad as the they are. They have got to pull it together. Having Hamilton, Andrus, and Lee out aren't helping either.

[themean]

Having Hamilton, Andrus, and Lee out aren't helping either.

Maybe Hamilton is due for another edgebreak:

[dynamitekid]

uh oh

[Duff]

the way Showalter has the Orioles playing they might actually be an above .500 team next year. if the standings started over when he took over, the Orioles would be in first place in the division, one game up on the Yankees.

and what's up with the Pirates front office. during their 18 consecutive losing season streak they have taken in something like $34.9 million in luxury tax revenue and turned a profit of $34.8 million over that time.

[themean]

MLB badly needs a salary cap and a salary floor.

[dynamitekid]

will never happen. The top teams would never agree to a cap and the bottom teams would never agree to a floor

[randysxe]

Matt Latos is only pitcher since 1900 (modern era) to have 15 consecutive starts with atleast 5+ innings and 2 or less earned runs! Maddux did it 14 staright in 93-94. thas pretty insane! he now leads in whip, era, and opps batting avg against! zero cy young talk! haha im pretty sure he deserves some

anyways, saw that stat tonight, thought it was pretty cool

[themean]

will never happen. The top teams would never agree to a cap and the bottom teams would never agree to a floor

Which is really unfortunate, and guarantees Yankees and/or Red Sox in the playoffs every year.

[flood]

the way Showalter has the Orioles playing they might actually be an above .500 team next year. if the standings started over when he took over, the Orioles would be in first place in the division, one game up on the Yankees.

yeah i saw that stat last night... amazing huh?

the orioles still made some sloppy plays, but they sure are a different team with buck running the show... he probably stuck his boot in a lot of asses to get them hustling like they are

[flood]

will never happen. The top teams would never agree to a cap and the bottom teams would never agree to a floor

Which is really unfortunate, and guarantees Yankees and/or Red Sox in the playoffs every year.

shit goes in cycles man.. the yankees were atrocious in the 80's, the orioles were awesome in the mid nineties... the blue jays won a pair of championships, all the expansion teams have made it to the world series on next to nothing payrolls. The quality of the management, and how they handle their players is just as important as just throwing money at supposed stars... The mets spend more money than jsut about anyone and can't get out of their own way

[Duff]

the Rays pretty much proved there's no need for a salary cap. like flood said a lot depends on how you manage your organization. the fact is you can win with a small payroll and that championships aren't won on paper. it depends on how you spend the money on your team, not necessarily how much you spend on it.

the biggest thing with money in baseball is a team's market size. the teams that are in Chicago, New York, Boston and Los Angeles are in the bigggest markets in the country if not the world, and can easily bring in money, where other teams in cities like Kansas City, Tampa, Pittsburgh and Milwaukee don't draw from a market nearly half the size. there's revenue sharing in baseball and Bud Selig is trying to force teams to spend that money on the on field product, but no action has really been taken about the Pirates yet for hoarding all the luxury tax dollars they take in every year.

[themean]

It's not the 90s anymore. The salary disparity between teams is completely different now. When was the last time there was a postseason without the Yankees or Red Sox?

That being said, I think any team that makes it into the playoffs has a shot at winning it all. For a division like the NL Central, if the Cubs have a bad year, all the small market teams have a shot.

Just because you CAN win with a small market team, does not mean that there is even close to a level playing field. It is simply not good for the game long term for the Yankees and Red Sox to get the best free agents every year, and be able to pick up exactly what they need at the trade deadline.

[MattyIceyo]

I am pretty sure the Sox are not making the playoffs this year. Every game i go to I am less and less interested, and it seems like its a AAA lineup half the time, with Ortiz in it...so it goes..bring on the bruins..

[dynamitekid]

The last postseason without the yankees or redsox was 1993.

[flood]

Lets examine this years payroll - the top ten spenders give us two #1 teams, no real wild card contenders, and 5 teams with losing records.

1. New York Yankees 1st place

2. Boston Red Sox 3rd place

3. Chicago Cubs 5th place UNDER 500

4. Philadelphia Phillies 1st

5. New York Mets 4th place UNDER 500

6. Detroit Tigers 3rd place UNDER 500

7. Chicago White Sox 2nd place

8. Los Angeles Angels 3rd place UNDER 500

9. Seattle Mariners 4th place UNDER 500

10. San Francisco Giants 2nd place

oddly enough ... the bottom 10 also give us two #1 teams, the likely AL wild card winner.. and also 5 sub 500 teams.

21. Tampa Bay Rays 2nd place (#1 in wild card)

22. Toronto Blue Jays 4th

23. Washington Nationals 5th UNDER 500

24. Cleveland Indians 5th UNDER 500

25. Arizona Diamondbacks 5th UNDER 500

26. Florida Marlins 3rd

27. Texas Rangers 1st

28. Oakland Athletics 2nd UNDER 500

29. San Diego Padres 1st

30. Pittsburgh Pirates 6th UNDER 500

Further proof that while money is nice, it doesn't gaurantee you results.

[themean]

Let's see a similar analysis over the last 10 years.

[dynamitekid]

lets do this. Teams that have made the playoffs (and number of times) since 1995.

Yankees 14 Indians 7 Angels 6 Braves 11 Cardinals 8 Dodgers 6

Red Sox 9 Twins 5 A's 5 Mets 3 Astros 6 Giants 4

Orioles 2 White Sox 3 Mariners 4 Phillies 3 Cubs 4 Padres 4

Rays 1 Tigers 1 Rangers 3 Marlins 2 Reds 1 D-Backs 4

Blue Jays 0 Royals 0 Nationals 0 Brewers 1 Rockies 3

Pirates 0

Now look at the Payrolls compared to each other. The teams that spent the most money made the playoffs. Yankees, Red Sox, Indians (had a high payroll when they were good, don't believe me? Compare their payroll in the late 90's to the Yankees), Angels, Braves, Cardinals, Dodgers, Giants, Astros. Now, i'm not saying that if you spend the most you win the most or that you have to spend the money but if you look at the teams and the payrolls, the teams that spend money make the playoffs more. There are a couple of exceptions(Twins, A's) but the point remains the same.

[dynamitekid]

the yankees were atrocious in the 80's

I disagree with this. They went to the playoffs twice, went to a world series and finished over .500 8 times. That's not exactly atrocious.

[themean]

We are also talking about the sustainability of a team over a period of time. If a small market team gets a good group of young players they can make a run for a year or two. Then those players want to get paid, and will end up elsewhere.

[flood]

We are also talking about the sustainability of a team over a period of time. If a small market team gets a good group of young players they can make a run for a year or two. Then those players want to get paid, and will end up elsewhere.

but when you look into how much money those small market team's owners are pocketing... they could be doing a better job at retaining free agents.. or at least doing a better job getting talent in return when they dump them

[dynamitekid]

thats exactly the marlins have remained so successful. rather than lose talent to free agency, they trade them ahead of time and stockpile talent.

[rockstar71888]

We are also talking about the sustainability of a team over a period of time. If a small market team gets a good group of young players they can make a run for a year or two. Then those players want to get paid, and will end up elsewhere.

i'm already preparing to say goodbye to Carl Crawford, Rafael Soriano, and possibly Carlos Pena :-[