NHL Discussion

[brad]

honestly, way too complicated. i don't like the points per game, the 1 point for a loss makes no sense (this is the playoffs we are talking about)

mine might not be the best but i think it's pretty close to something that can happen.

[drabley]

honestly, way too complicated. i don't like the points per game, the 1 point for a loss makes no sense (this is the playoffs we are talking about)

mine might not be the best but i think it's pretty close to something that can happen.

Then lets eliminate the 1 point for OTL. I only included it as a hedge for people with lousy picks -- at least you can salvage something, potentially.

New picks in subsequent rounds doesn't make sense either regardless as to how they're weighted (this is the playoffs we are talking about). The teams don't get do-overs, and neither should we.

Your way is more straightforward, yes, but I'm not a fan of picking new winners out of your previous losers. You either win or you don't.

It's that blasted 2nd round that messes everything up. The trick is to find something equitable we can all agree on.

It's not bio-engineering. We're all in trouble if we can't make a simple playoff pool work.

There's been some interest and I think it would be a fun concept to try out. If a bracket-style of play needs to be abandoned, so be it.

We need to figure this out soon, though.

[drabley]

And if the points per game is the hang up, we could do a straight 5 points for picking the winner, 2 bonus for picking the correct victory margin.

But no re-picks at a lesser point value.

It's contrary to the elimination nature of the playoffs, and seems unfair that, in theory, someone who did worse than you in the first round could do better than you in the second.

[brad]

well you can't not repick as teams get reseeded.

[brad]

everyone gets a shot to repick the next round...so it all stays fair. hell, there could be a strategy as well...are you going to pick a 5 pointer or the 9 pointed team?

[drabley]

everyone gets a shot to repick the next round...so it all stays fair. hell, there could be a strategy as well...are you going to pick a 5 pointer or the 9 pointed team?

But what if your round 1 picks are re-seeded and paired as right vs. right and wrong vs. wrong? Are you only going to pick from one series and take the shaft from the re-seed on the other? Or do you get to pick a new 5 pointer from your previous failures? That's what I'm not particularly fond of.

I'm down with your method, don't get me wrong. Just need to understand the rules before I submit.

[brad]

just thinking aloud really.

everyone gets to repick, you just get points on everything you get right. but you have incentive to try to think of a winner ahead of time to maximize your points.

[kirbypuckett]

I agree w/ this. You don't get to remake NCAA brackets.

This website re-ranks them on the fly too.

well it's different because the NCAA doesn't reseed like the nhl does.

say you pick the top 4 seed to advance so in the next round you have your bracket set up as

1 v 4

2 v 3

well what if seed 7 upsets seed 2?

1 v 7

3 v 4

so you only picked one team wrong and your bracket is still fucked up???

the only way to do an nhl bracket is round by round.

I just figured you were out then.

I believe that's how we're doing it at work.

[drabley]

So what's it going to be, VC?

There a couple of ideas floating around as to how to get this thing done. Is it more trouble than it's worth? Does anyone care?

Time's-a-wastin'.

[brad]

easiest thing to do:

round by round everyone starts fresh. 5 points for the winner, subtract a point for each game you are off.

max points if you are correct in the series - 5

minimum points if you are correct - 2 (say you pick philly in 7 but they sweep)

if you are wrong you get - 0

[¯\_(ツ)_/¯]

got my tickets to tomorrow nights game!

[murakami]

agree with brad but would like to lobby to throw in a bonus for correctly the final series results

[drabley]

easiest thing to do:

round by round everyone starts fresh. 5 points for the winner, subtract a point for each game you are off.

max points if you are correct in the series - 5

minimum points if you are correct - 2 (say you pick philly in 7 but they sweep)

if you are wrong you get - 0

I'm willing to do it this way for simplicity sake.

Are we going to have a progessive point system like you suggested? Picking Philly in round 1 = 5. Again in round 2 = 7? I think it should be so since we're getting fresh picks -- should be some sort of additional benefit for being right in the first place if everyone gets the same number of picks.

Let's try and finalize this thing and get a participation roster going.

[drabley]

agree with brad but would like to lobby to throw in a bonus for correctly the final series results

Agreed. If I stand to lose something for being wrong, I should gain something for being right.

[kirbypuckett]

Make sure when this is all said and done you type out all of the rules in a very clear way.

I updated my graphic a few pages back. I actually picked a winner this time (not sure why it didn't show up the first time).

[murakami]

Make sure when this is all said and done you type out all of the rules in a very clear way.

agree. i like most of these ideas and want to do it more for the fun and my love of hockey

drabley - since you kinda took the lead on getting this set up, if you want to pick the final set of rules and post them, i will give you my full support

[swankymodes]

I'm in for the hockey deal. I post a bracket when the final rules come up.

[brad]

my thoughts on a bonus for games - it's like a double dip. think of the 5 meaning you nailed everything down.

for simplicity there would be no bonus but i think the progressive thing has it's benefits.

you could get a bonus of 2 points for each additional round your team moves on.

My official proposal

rules:

By Wednesday at Noon EST:

pick 8 winners and number of games it will take

for example: Sharks in 6

At a date to be determined:

(Minimum of 6 hours before the first game of the 2nd round)

Pick 4 winners and games

At another date

Pick 2 winners and games

Finally before the cup

Pick 1 winner and games

The Bonus:

Since the goal here is to think ahead and not just randomly guess there is an additional 2 point bonus for each additional round one of your first 8 winners moves on (that you picked correctly)

For example:

You pick the sharks in 6 in the first round and they move on. In the second round you again pick the sharks in 7 and they win in 7 then instead of 5 points you get 7 points.

Potentially you can gain a maximum of 32 points (5+7+9+11) for one team (if you pick the correct number of games each time)

If you pick a new team to win it all after the first round your maximum would be 21 points for that one team (5+7+9)

Penalties:

Each game off is a one point deduction.

Example: You pick the Flyers in 5. If they flyers win in 7 you get 3 points. if they win in 4 or 6 you get 4 points. If the win in 5 (your pick) you get the maximum of 5 points.

The easiest way to keep track of previous winners would be a sidenote and bolding the team.

Each person puts up a 7" and will mail it to the winner in the first 7 business days.

So by Wednesday if you are in I need

8 teams and games

7" you are putting up

[drabley]

Shit -- didn't see brad's version above. Oh well.

Here's my draft:

VC Playoff Pool 2009!

Structure and Overview:

Prior to the commencement of each round of the NHL 2008-09 Playoffs, each participant must submit (see rules) their picks for the victor of each series as well as the number of games required to acheive victory. An example is "Flyers in 6" or "San Jose 4 - 1" and so on.

Correctly identifying a winning team in the first round results in 5 points credited to your total.

Points can also be earned by correctly predicting the series duration for the winning team, but they can also be lost. If you select "Flyers in 6" and the series concludes as "Flyers in 4", you will be deducted 1 point from your total for each game over or under your predicted duration. In the example above, you would only receive 3 points. If you correctly identify both the winner and the duration, you will receive 2 bonus points for a total of 7.

In subsequent rounds, if you continue to select one of your original round 1 picks to move on, the potential point value increases by 2 for each round. If you again select "Flyers in 6" for the second round, your base point total is 7 and can be increased or decreased by your accuracy on the series duration as outlined above. If you so choose, you may pick a team not previously picked to move on, but the point value starts at 5. Example, if you did not pick Columbus to advance past round 1 and lost, you could select them to advance past round 2, but it would only be worth 5 points, not 7.

This structure applies to all subsequent rounds, with a max base point value of 11 for one of your original picks making it through to the cup final.

Risk:

A 7" record, of your choice, from your collection. Please try to avoid a duplicate that someone else is already wagering unless it is a different color variant. Other record sizes may be substituted if desired, though there will be no such requirement on other participants.

Reward

Upon completion of the Stanley Cup Finals, final points totals will be calculated and a winner determined. Rewards as follows:

1st place: Keep your 7" + all other available records that have been wagered

2nd place: Keep your 7"

Rules:

1. All picks for each round must be submitted no later than 2 hours prior to the commencement of the 1st game in said round. Submittal can be either by posting on this thread, or via PM to pool admin.

2. Once a round has commenced, no changes can be made to picks regardless of whether that particular series has commenced or not.

3. Point standings are to be documented and posted in this thread by pool admin at the conclusion of each round.

4. Your wager (7" record of your choice) must be stated prior to commencement of round 1. Your wager cannot be changed at any time.

5. Losing participants must mail their lost record to the pool winner within 5 business days of the final game of the Stanley Cup. Any extension requests or special circumstances must be communicated to the winner. (Don't be a douche. If you lost, send your shit.)

6. Wagers must be albums that are "on the shelf" at time of wager. Do not wager records that are "in transit". Vegas only accepts cash. We only accept actual possessions.

Any changes?

[drabley]

Fuck it. At this point, I say just go with Brad's version and let him handle it.

It's weird saying that, because my name is Brad as well.

Some of the rules I mentioned should be included, though. Not that anyone would try any bullshit, but it should be stated officially before play commences.

[kirbypuckett]

Is there a website that can handle this? Because someone's going to get some math wrong.

[swankymodes]

I don't think any Web sites do fantasy hockey in a bracket system for this exact reason. Sporting News does a salary cap version, but you pick players, not teams.

[swankymodes]

How about this... Pick your bracket, complete to the finals. List winners and number of games the series will go.

Round 1 Scoring:

Correct winner of series = 10 points

Correct amount of games in series = 5 points

Round 2 Scoring:

Correct winner of series = 20 points

Correct amount of games in series = 10 points

Round 3 Scoring:

Correct winner of series = 30 points

Correct amount of games in series = 20 points

Round 4 Scoring:

Correct winner of series = 40 points

Correct amount of games in series = 25 points

* Tie breaker. Total number of goals scored in the Stanley Cup finals series.

That should be simple enough to follow and ad up.

[drabley]

How about this... Pick your bracket, complete to the finals. List winners and number of games the series will go.

Round 1 Scoring:

Correct winner of series = 10 points

Correct amount of games in series = 5 points

Round 2 Scoring:

Correct winner of series = 20 points

Correct amount of games in series = 10 points

Round 3 Scoring:

Correct winner of series = 30 points

Correct amount of games in series = 20 points

Round 4 Scoring:

Correct winner of series = 40 points

Correct amount of games in series = 25 points

* Tie breaker. Total number of goals scored in the Stanley Cup finals series.

That should be simple enough to follow and ad up.

We tried that. Round 2 can't work because of the re-seeding. It's not as simple as just "the winners from these 2 games play each other" like in NCAA hoops.

Unless we all agree to potentially be cheated out of a pick.

[swankymodes]

How about this... Pick your bracket, complete to the finals. List winners and number of games the series will go.

Round 1 Scoring:

Correct winner of series = 10 points

Correct amount of games in series = 5 points

Round 2 Scoring:

Correct winner of series = 20 points

Correct amount of games in series = 10 points

Round 3 Scoring:

Correct winner of series = 30 points

Correct amount of games in series = 20 points

Round 4 Scoring:

Correct winner of series = 40 points

Correct amount of games in series = 25 points

* Tie breaker. Total number of goals scored in the Stanley Cup finals series.

That should be simple enough to follow and ad up.

We tried that. Round 2 can't work because of the re-seeding. It's not as simple as just "the winners from these 2 games play each other" like in NCAA hoops.

Unless we all agree to potentially be cheated out of a pick.

It seems like the only simple way to do it. Anything else we do will be overly complicated I think. 1 bracket for each person and done. If you blow the 1st round, you're out.