We Need Transparency (an open letter to Virgil)

[gmoney]

whoa.

[jhulud]

I'm finding it amusing how this "concerned" person seems to be speaking from and for ALL of the labels and people who do & have done business w/ Virgil. Dude seems to have some sort of inside track or something.

Thanks for starting this thread "concerned". Now that it's here, EVERY label and person who is doing business w/ Virgil will come here and post about their business dealings for us to see and know about. You have opened the floodgates! Awwww hell!!!

Whatever.

[silentgods]

man up and post an identity or get the fuck off the internet.

seriously, nothing anon changes ANYTHING.

[pjaicomo]

I don't think this thread is anywhere near epic (yet).

[brentoage]

wonder which ten people bought the $1000 vc for life subscriptions.

[impact]

[leftoffthedial]

It really surprises me how unconcerned a lot of people seem, considering these type of threads appear to be popping up somewhat regularly the last year or more. If you haven't been paid from a distro that owes you money in 8 or 9 months, it's pretty likely you aren't going to get paid at all. I don't care how many email updates you've had keeping you abreast of your sales and money you are going to receive once VC is more financially stable, if you haven't received a check in that long, don't hold your breath.

I worked at Lookout for almost 7 years and everything I have read on here has so many similarities to how things quickly went down there, that I'm never surprised when I see another post pop up with complaints about getting paid, or the excuses and promises made to rectify them. I don't think anyone has ever really made claims that Virgil is any sort of a bad person, but being a great dude doesn't equal running a successful business. I'm sure Virgil gives a huge shit and really is trying to make things work, but all the positive vibes in the world don't pay bills.

I would hope at this point, any label that has stock with VC would either ask for it back, or resign themselves to be willing to cut their losses and accept they aren't going to receive payment, and possibly not even get their product back. When push comes to shove, if things really go south and VC folds, you small labels with 5 or 10 or so releases will be way down the line to get paid. Larger labels who may be owed thousands or even tens of thousands of dollars are going to be the ones willing to get lawyers involved to get their cash, and the first to get action going for payment will be the first to get paid. A bunch of people will be left without a penny as there won't be enough cash to go around.

It's been happening for years, and it's going to keep happening, so don't delude yourself into thinking it's not possible here. How many "punk" distros have just closed up shop suddenly leaving labels with their dick in their hands? Big, reliable, solid distros.... Rotz, Choke, Mordam, Lumberjack, Bottlenekk... those are just a couple of the larger ones off the top of my head...and that doesn't take into account a ton of smaller but good sized mailorders or even huge one stops like Valley etc. For small to mid size labels, you don't have the resources to even consider hiring a lawyer, and honestly, it might not even be worth it as it could be there's so little money to go around, you would actually lose more due to attorney fees.

I don't mean for this to be super negative, but considering some of the higher profile label and distro failures alone of the last few years, it's a bummer to see a bunch of people acting so naive to the possibility happening with VC when there's so many details plastered on this board that should be financially horrifying to any label with money at stake. Should Virgil make the business finances transparent? No. Should he be sending out regular or at least quarterly royalty statements with payment? Yes. If that isn't happening, get your records back if you can and get outta dodge. If you really believe Virgil will turn it all around and want to stick it out, good for you, just don't cry about it if you never see a penny or your records again.

[googlemyass]

It really surprises me how unconcerned a lot of people seem, considering these type of threads appear to be popping up somewhat regularly the last year or more. If you haven't been paid from a distro that owes you money in 8 or 9 months, it's pretty likely you aren't going to get paid at all. I don't care how many email updates you've had keeping you abreast of your sales and money you are going to receive once VC is more financially stable, if you haven't received a check in that long, don't hold your breath.

I worked at Lookout for almost 7 years and everything I have read on here has so many similarities to how things quickly went down there, that I'm never surprised when I see another post pop up with complaints about getting paid, or the excuses and promises made to rectify them. I don't think anyone has ever really made claims that Virgil is any sort of a bad person, but being a great dude doesn't equal running a successful business. I'm sure Virgil gives a huge shit and really is trying to make things work, but all the positive vibes in the world don't pay bills.

I would hope at this point, any label that has stock with VC would either ask for it back, or resign themselves to be willing to cut their losses and accept they aren't going to receive payment, and possibly not even get their product back. When push comes to shove, if things really go south and VC folds, you small labels with 5 or 10 or so releases will be way down the line to get paid. Larger labels who may be owed thousands or even tens of thousands of dollars are going to be the ones willing to get lawyers involved to get their cash, and the first to get action going for payment will be the first to get paid. A bunch of people will be left without a penny as there won't be enough cash to go around.

It's been happening for years, and it's going to keep happening, so don't delude yourself into thinking it's not possible here. How many "punk" distros have just closed up shop suddenly leaving labels with their dick in their hands? Big, reliable, solid distros.... Rotz, Choke, Mordam, Lumberjack, Bottlenekk... those are just a couple of the larger ones off the top of my head...and that doesn't take into account a ton of smaller but good sized mailorders or even huge one stops like Valley etc. For small to mid size labels, you don't have the resources to even consider hiring a lawyer, and honestly, it might not even be worth it as it could be there's so little money to go around, you would actually lose more due to attorney fees.

I don't mean for this to be super negative, but considering some of the higher profile label and distro failures alone of the last few years, it's a bummer to see a bunch of people acting so naive to the possibility happening with VC when there's so many details plastered on this board that should be financially horrifying to any label with money at stake. Should Virgil make the business finances transparent? No. Should he be sending out regular or at least quarterly royalty statements with payment? Yes. If that isn't happening, get your records back if you can and get outta dodge. If you really believe Virgil will turn it all around and want to stick it out, good for you, just don't cry about it if you never see a penny or your records again.

best post in this thread, aside from OP. i think that there are a lot of fanboys on here that think VC can do no harm. when in reality, there have been so many signs and so many desperate acts that its almost to the point of embarrassment for VC. its like the elephant in the room. i just feel bad for the co-op. i however do not feel bad for people who bought in to his money schemes, such as the VC for life, or anything to that extent. i havent purchased anything from VC in over a year, because i have seen its decline. its sad, but its also clear as day what is happening. very, very sketchy business. enough of these type of threads and accusations have been brought up in the past, along with the slowing of the co-op, the 4-6 month pre-orders (and delays), the ridiculous money schemes, at this point only time will tell when VC will fall. but dont be mistaken, as much as you love this site and being here, it will fail, unless something drastic is done to reverse what has already happened.

[daniel]

best post in this thread, aside from OP. i think that there are a lot of fanboys on here that think VC can do no harm. when in reality, there have been so many signs and so many desperate acts that its almost to the point of embarrassment for VC. its like the elephant in the room. i just feel bad for the co-op. i however do not feel bad for people who bought in to his money schemes, such as the VC for life, or anything to that extent. i havent purchased anything from VC in over a year, because i have seen its decline. its sad, but its also clear as day what is happening. very, very sketchy business. enough of these type of threads and accusations have been brought up in the past, along with the slowing of the co-op, the 4-6 month pre-orders (and delays), the ridiculous money schemes, at this point only time will tell when VC will fall. but dont be mistaken, as much as you love this site and being here, it will fail, unless something drastic is done to reverse what has already happened.

Nine months in debt... I guess it's gonna happen sooner than later. :-/

[googlemyass]

at least 9 months, 9 notable months.

[dntheman1]

As a consumer, I've been happy with VC. Some of the preorders I've made were delayed, but so far everything has been delivered. I've had things end up on backorder and they were quickly dealt with. I realize I'm on the other side of things from the suppliers, but I will keep buying things from VC given that they keep producing and distributing titles I like. Just wanted to have a positive side of things on here.

[rtw88]

Cue parody thread 'We Need Transparency (an open letter to concerned

[daniel]

As a consumer, I've been happy with VC. Some of the preorders I've made were delayed, but so far everything has been delivered. I've had things end up on backorder and they were quickly dealt with. I realize I'm on the other side of things from the suppliers, but I will keep buying things from VC given that they keep producing and distributing titles I like. Just wanted to have a positive side of things on here.

Well if these allegations are true, you've essentially agreed to keep sending money to vinyl collective even though there's a chance that the labels or bands who produced the records you'll buy will never get their cut of the proceeds.

At least that's the way I interpreted all this. I could be way off.

[Fartcat]

I think the only things I have picked up have been Suburban Home releases (Joey Cape/Mike Hail UTI, Joey Cape - Bridge and the Joey Cape/Jon Snodgrass split)

And now that I think about it Kudrow - Lando and one of the Me First square dance color 7"s, Sorry Fat Wreck Chords and Ernest Jennings records.

[dntheman1]

To be fair, I tend to buy more SH stuff than distro stuff, so ideally I'm helping them get out of whatever hole they're in. I'm hoping if I buy something that is non SH, that label gets a check but as others have pointed out, perhaps that's not the case.

[Fartcat]

If that is the case why do labels keep sending new stuff to SH?

[melikecheese]

This should play out well as an example of how not to run a business online (VC).

I Suspect silence, which will just further the perception that VC is failing.

[flood]

a) posting your private business matter on a public forum is fucking bush league.

while not without fault in this situation. Virgil also took chances on no name labels like mine, and others here that most distros this size wouldn't have touched with a ten foot pole.

c) lumberjack/mordam always took over 9 months to pay me... most other distros are slow as hell with payment too... up until the economic downturn virgil was paying super prompt every month which made him the single most reliable place besides interpunk that i ever worked with.

d) the situation sucks, but VC looks like they are working hard on correcting the issue, trashing him publicly isn't going to help you getting paid any quicker. Theres an inherent communication/promotion value for labels to have this site continue to exist, and i have faith in virgil in being able to turn this shit around

[hc4thehc]

I dread the influx of VC users to DF when this goes down.

Please Virgil: make it work. Win the lottery or something.

[themean]

Why is there still new SH releases coming out when labels are still owed nine months of payments?

[moonbeams]

Why is there still new SH releases coming out when labels are still owed nine months of payments?

probably as not to lose high selling artists. sorry to Virgil for hypothesizing. I have no experience.

As this is an "open letter," sorry, I can't believe it's credibility as it is anonymous. It's just slander to me.

If Virgil is having troubles, I just read this last night and I think there's a wealth of information packed in this memoir:

http://larrylivermore.com/?p=208

[scottheisel]

Couldn't all of this have been avoided had the original poster, I don't know, picked up a phone and called Virgil?

[tankerdesk]

Couldn't all of this have been avoided had the original poster, I don't know, picked up a phone and called Virgil?

How does a private phone call achieve transparency?

[pjaicomo]

I dread the influx of VC users to DF when this goes down.

Please Virgil: make it work. Win the lottery or something.

Man, you're so cool. I wish I were as cool as you, but I am stuck here.

[hickey]

best post in this thread, aside from OP. i think that there are a lot of fanboys on here that think VC can do no harm. when in reality, there have been so many signs and so many desperate acts that its almost to the point of embarrassment for VC. its like the elephant in the room. i just feel bad for the co-op. i however do not feel bad for people who bought in to his money schemes, such as the VC for life, or anything to that extent. i havent purchased anything from VC in over a year, because i have seen its decline. its sad, but its also clear as day what is happening. very, very sketchy business. enough of these type of threads and accusations have been brought up in the past, along with the slowing of the co-op, the 4-6 month pre-orders (and delays), the ridiculous money schemes, at this point only time will tell when VC will fall. but dont be mistaken, as much as you love this site and being here, it will fail, unless something drastic is done to reverse what has already happened.

I agree with you 100 percent. I have avoided buying from VC unless it's something I can only get through VC. The fact that that Mock Orange LP pre-order is teetering on hitting the one-year mark and there is no record should be a huge red flag. Add in the money making schemes and massive stock liquidations and there certainly is a problem.

Somewhat unrelated to the matter at hand, I've asked in the past for a look at the co-op's numbers, as I have a feeling that that money is long gone, too.

I don't think anyone is personally attacking Virgil, but more noting that he's in over his head and all signs point to a rough road to recovery if there even is recovery ahead.

While I have no horse in this race, it does get tiresome when people immediately ignore things like this because they like Virgil, etc., and jump to VC's defense because they feel they have to defend him. Virgil is a grown man, he can defend himself. Personally, I don't think he should have to publicly, but if a lot of labels are getting nothing but radio silence when asking about their money, maybe this is the best way to get someone's attention.

I think this thread can serve as a public service to labels who may not realize what's going on and are waiting patiently to get paid.