scottheisel Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 Just out of curiosity Scott, were you not one of the "team leaders" way back when? was wondering what that entailed.not trying to start shit with you. but if you're going to be a Virgil apologist. you can at least throw that in to the mix, as i'm sure you probably aren't out 60 dollars like a good deal of us. I was a team leader. All it entailed was him asking me to manage the votes of X amount of people and use my connections to help get records pressed. (I was the original reason those Sparta and Norma Jean records got pressed.) In exchange, I got my Co-Op records free of charge, same as every other team leader. I'm not a Virgil apologist. I haven't talked to the guy in months and months, and the last time I did was to ask where my This Charming Man LP was. (To his credit, he sent it out the next day.) But I'm just beyond sick of people dragging his name through the mud, because it always devolves into a pitchfork-and-torch-wielding mob (that's frequently manipulated by misanthropic pricks on VLV just so they can have a few more laughs at someone else's expense). I'm not upset at the drummer of Ruiner personally, and I hope he didn't take offense to anything I wrote; that said, I stand by my opinion. And unlike themean, I'll actually put my real name next to it, too. PS: The only time I've ever PMed themean is to call him a coward. (Literally, I wrote him a message that said "You're a coward." That's it.) Don't know how that's "vaguely threatening." And you know what? He is a coward, as is anyone who talks shit online but is too afraid to actually say who they are. Internet anonymity + shit-talk = true cowardice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
appletree Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 insert MJ eating popcorn .gif Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
One Hundred Fifty-Two Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 My name is Paul Frost come trade records with me in person. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottheisel Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 Umm the mean is far from anonymous on the internet. His name is Scott Torguson and has never hid that fact, he was also in Amber Inn and Sinker (two amazing bands btw) and created the site bandtoband.comThis has been covered on this board before I have never seen any of this mentioned on this board before now. It's certainly not frequently volunteered information, anyway. EDIT: Haha, with this information provided, it now leads to hilarious shit like this message board thread where this guy tried to pretend bandtoband.com wasn't his just to get people to check it out: http://www.strangefamousrecords.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=27797&sid=f8362e626cd9bcbf7ac81e34d048afe5 "This guy is crazy!" Yeah man, so crazy! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottheisel Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 He has/had 6000+ posts on that board, he was using sarcasm You realize that your current post count isn't the same as when you posted something seven years ago, right? And nothing he wrote in that thread reads like sarcasm to me. It sounds like he was trying to pimp his shit without looking like he was pimping his shit. That would be like if you made a thread (in your case, under a different username) that said, "Oh man, my new favorite distro is invinylwetrust.com! They have everything. You guys gotta check it out, his prices are crazy." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rtw88 Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 So Virgil has fucked over literally hundreds of people in the 'punk' community, and is so unapologetic about it that instead of investing his time and efforts into doing something legit to get back on track and make right with those he wronged, he starts another collective with what he believes to be an innovative business model while ignoring the people who supported him in the past, and you are upset because people are 'dragging his name through the mud'? What is it that you expect people to do if it is obvious that individuals trying to get in touch with Virgil amounts to nothing but wasted time? I have no problem admitting that I have lost absolutely nothing in this whole debacle, but it's complete bullshit to suggest that people stop getting upset with someone who failed horribly using others' money, and then continues to try to make it in the music community. Not to mention, all of this is beside the point of the fact that you decided to go on the offensive to ream and marginalize someone who appeared to be legitimately unaware of the situation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
almightyseancore Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jerseydave77 Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 I love seeing all these old-school posters coming out to this one. Good stuff. I don't know what Virgil has done to deserve anyone's benefit of the doubt at this point. Guy owes a ton of people money and it's a service to this community that people know that if you send him money for any reason that you are essentially gambling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottheisel Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 You realize that your current post count isn't the same as when you posted something seven years ago, right? And nothing he wrote in that thread reads like sarcasm to me. It sounds like he was trying to pimp his shit without looking like he was pimping his shit. That would be like if you made a thread (in your case, under a different username) that said, "Oh man, my new favorite distro is invinylwetrust.com! They have everything. You guys gotta check it out, his prices are crazy." Scott, read my post again...he posts later in the thread that they will be adding more bands. Also, I don't see you calling out all the SRC threads that are created by random users who post nothing else You're right, he posts in that thread later and uses the word "they"—not "I" or "we." He never, ever declares ownership or control over the website. The entire time, he's trying to pass it off like something he just stumbled across. And I honestly don't know what SRC threads you're talking about. Any SRC thread I see on here is generally one of two things: 1. An update by Jenna, who works there (and runs the boards), about something the company is doing 2. Someone making a thread about how shitty their shipping/customer service/etc. is, and then people debate those merits endlessly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emo Revival Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 Internet fights are the coolest BuzzersonKillwell 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottheisel Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 So Virgil has fucked over literally hundreds of people in the 'punk' community, and is so unapologetic about it that instead of investing his time and efforts into doing something legit to get back on track and make right with those he wronged, he starts another collective with what he believes to be an innovative business model while ignoring the people who supported him in the past, and you are upset because people are 'dragging his name through the mud'? What is it that you expect people to do if it is obvious that individuals trying to get in touch with Virgil amounts to nothing but wasted time? I have no problem admitting that I have lost absolutely nothing in this whole debacle, but it's complete bullshit to suggest that people stop getting upset with someone who failed horribly using others' money, and then continues to try to make it in the music community.Not to mention, all of this is beside the point of the fact that you decided to go on the offensive to ream and marginalize someone who appeared to be legitimately unaware of the situation. Since when was Virgil unapologetic? He might have been oblivious or in denial in regards to some of his poorer business decisions, but when things really went south, he was nothing but apologies, and promises to make it right and pay back everyone. I have no knowledge of his current financial situation (and neither do you), so I don't know who got paid back and who didn't, but he's not sitting on a pile of money telling everyone to fuck off. Dude lost his company, his wife and any shred of credibility he built up over the years. It's not like he came out a winner in this situation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weck Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 So Scott, will you be investing in the new collective? Since Virgil must be a changed man and we should all forgive him? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottheisel Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 So Scott, will you be investing in the new collective? Since Virgil must be a changed man and we should all forgive him? Definitely never said any of this, but thanks for playing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weck Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 So Scott, will you be investing in the new collective? Since Virgil must be a changed man and we should all forgive him? Definitely never said any of this, but thanks for playing. Why wouldn't you? You were in on the first one, why shouldn't you join this one? I enjoy playing, so thanks for that. But more seriously, I hope you treat the bands on your label better then Virgil did and send your bands all of their worthless "souvenirs". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rtw88 Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 Like I said originally, starting another gamble of a business in the music industry after failing miserably in the same industry, while also owing hundreds of people money, is unapologetic in my opinion. At the very least it is incredibly misguided and delusional. I'm not unsympathetic to Virgil's situation at all. It sucks immensely. I don't for a second believe he ever intended to screw anyone over. I think that he thought he had a great idea, and his enthusiasm blinded him to the risks and reality of what he was getting himself into. It's terrible, and I feel for him, but ignoring everything that happened when he is up to his old ways is not a good course of action. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lonesomexloveus Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 acting like you're apologetic and verbally making apologies is a vastly different thing than actually making an honest effort to placate those you've wronged and rectify the situation before moving on and ignoring people from your past. that being said: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottheisel Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 Definitely never said any of this, but thanks for playing. Why wouldn't you? You were in on the first one, why shouldn't you join this one? I enjoy playing, so thanks for that. But more seriously, I hope you treat the bands on your label better then Virgil did and send your bands all of their worthless "souvenirs". I never invested in Vinyl Collective outside of buying records from the site. And I run my label significantly differently than Virgil's, but I appreciate your concern. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yocaseycasey Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 acting like you're apologetic and verbally making apologies is a vastly different thing than actually making an honest effort to placate those you've wronged and rectify the situation before moving on and ignoring people from your past.that being said: Don't care about any of this, because I wasn't involved in any of this, but Jersey Shore gifs always perk me up. Yes, I used the word perk. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottheisel Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 Like I said originally, starting another gamble of a business in the music industry after failing miserably in the same industry, while also owing hundreds of people money, is unapologetic in my opinion. At the very least it is incredibly misguided and delusional. I'm not unsympathetic to Virgil's situation at all. It sucks immensely. I don't for a second believe he ever intended to screw anyone over. I think that he thought he had a great idea, and his enthusiasm blinded him to the risks and reality of what he was getting himself into. It's terrible, and I feel for him, but ignoring everything that happened when he is up to his old ways is not a good course of action. It doesn't appear that Greater Than Collective is his full-time project. A quick glance at his Facebook says he works for Illegal Pete's (which is a restaurant in Denver). I won't argue with you on his intentions to start a new label being misguided, because it sure seems that way to pretty much anyone with a basic knowledge of what went down. But if a band wants to work with him, that's their choice. Also, I'm bothered by people frequently saying, "he owes all this money to all these people!" when in actuality, no one knows what his financials are like right now. People on this board talk about Virgil as if they have access to his bank account or something. It's weird and uncomfortable for me to see people assuming what someone else's financial situation is and passing it off as cold, hard fact. Again, I don't doubt that he still owes people money, but for people to talk as if they know exactly how much and to whom is kind of fucked. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jhulud Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 JS gifs always bring life to the party! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
appletree Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 JS gifs always bring life to the party! edit: i always liked the table moving one. lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebiglebowski Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 acting like you're apologetic and verbally making apologies is a vastly different thing than actually making an honest effort to placate those you've wronged and rectify the situation before moving on and ignoring people from your past. Well put. The guy might owe a mountain of debt and you still gotta live your life (ie, beer tours), but if were taking $100 (or some other amount) out of his check each month and chipping away at the debt, I don't think people would bash his character (they would just say he made foolish business moves). He seems to have just walked away, though. Can't have it both ways -- walking away from debts to many in the community and maintaining an image as a standup guy (and a label or "collective" owner that people want to do business with). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
themean Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 Damn, that's your best zinger? That I posted about bandtoband? I didn't start the site. I found it, it ruled, and I got involved in the content and handled email submissions for years. There is a group of about 10 of us that work on the site regularly, but it was started by Kevin Finn (who built the Rev and Epitaph sites, I believe) and a guy named Mark Kennedy. At the time I posted over at that other board it looks like it was when I first found the site, and was not yet involved. Thank you for providing another example of blindly swinging at irrelevant stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebiglebowski Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 Like I said originally, starting another gamble of a business in the music industry after failing miserably in the same industry, while also owing hundreds of people money, is unapologetic in my opinion. At the very least it is incredibly misguided and delusional. I'm not unsympathetic to Virgil's situation at all. It sucks immensely. I don't for a second believe he ever intended to screw anyone over. I think that he thought he had a great idea, and his enthusiasm blinded him to the risks and reality of what he was getting himself into. It's terrible, and I feel for him, but ignoring everything that happened when he is up to his old ways is not a good course of action. It doesn't appear that Greater Than Collective is his full-time project. A quick glance at his Facebook says he works for Illegal Pete's (which is a restaurant in Denver). I won't argue with you on his intentions to start a new label being misguided, because it sure seems that way to pretty much anyone with a basic knowledge of what went down. But if a band wants to work with him, that's their choice. Also, I'm bothered by people frequently saying, "he owes all this money to all these people!" when in actuality, no one knows what his financials are like right now. People on this board talk about Virgil as if they have access to his bank account or something. It's weird and uncomfortable for me to see people assuming what someone else's financial situation is and passing it off as cold, hard fact. Again, I don't doubt that he still owes people money, but for people to talk as if they know exactly how much and to whom is kind of fucked. So tell us. I don't think anyone is asking to see his credit card bill and paystub, but create a list of people that are owed money and remove them as they are paid off. It's not about rectifying the situation immediately (I don't doubt that he would if he could), but show incremental improvement of the situation (or admit that he walked away and stuck a lot of people with his debts, and get out of the scene). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
themean Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 That would be like if you made a thread (in your case, under a different username) that said, "Oh man, my new favorite distro is invinylwetrust.com! They have everything. You guys gotta check it out, his prices are crazy." Also, it wouldn't really be like that, because we aren't selling anything at bandtoband. It is there for historical purposes only. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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