Shinji Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 Nice. Lush is one of my all time favorite bands.Sell me Split and their other albums/EPs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
serious business Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 Yeah, it's the Lush 2x10". And yeah, I just want to know what you guys might do. I feel as a buyer, if I buy an item from a seller with many, many original, old records listed as NM and like new, I have an obligation to let other buyers know that they might not receive an item as they expected it to be, but I always find myself feeling like a dick if I leave any feedback less than positive. I think you're handling it well. The only way I'd leave positive feedback is if he did a refund for the amount you would have saved buying one of the others. I would still note within the positive feedback the over grading and poor packing, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stravinsky Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 Are you asking for calm, normal-dude-to-normal-dude advice? If so, you should message him first to get his take on why there could have been a difference in the description, which it sounds like you did. I don't really know how you can accidentally make the mistake of listing that LP as like new/perfect, so I'm not sure how his response would sway you from a neutral experience, at best, to a positive one. But maybe, if he responds professionally, acknowledges the error, and offers a refund or return, you can include that as a positive aspect in your neutral feedback's description? This. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shinji Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 True, thanks guys. Really disappointing, but like I said, at least the records sound good. I'd never even seen this in person before, so a near mint copy would have been ideal, but I'll take what I can get. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mindovermatter Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 OP - please inform us of the record that you purchased that sparked this thread. My curiousity has been piqued. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suchashorttime Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 OP - please inform us of the record that you purchased that sparked this thread. My curiousity has been piqued. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+hecollec+or Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suchashorttime Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 Also, as a general rule of thumb as a seller, take pictures of every detail when selling a record. Cover your ass. Not worth the hassle and if you have a photo displaying any imperfections they buyer can't really dispute. As a buyer - if you're going to be anal as hell, ask for more pictures of minor details or explanations beyond what is provided. If you aren't 100% positive you want it, don't buy it. There should be no issue whatsoever if you sought extra info and it arrived other than described / pictures. Going by a grading scale is too subjective and you can't really prove either side right or wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
just a normal guy kevin Posted February 17, 2015 Author Share Posted February 17, 2015 Yeah, it's the Lush 2x10". And yeah, I just want to know what you guys might do. I feel as a buyer, if I buy an item from a seller with many, many original, old records listed as NM and like new, I have an obligation to let other buyers know that they might not receive an item as they expected it to be, but I always find myself feeling like a dick if I leave any feedback less than positive. The original post in this thread is my "what I might do". I left a neutral feedback and mentioned that the seller was helpful about the return in the description. The result for me was that the seller became upset, focused on the neutral score as a negative score, decided I was a scammer, and didn't take into account the fact that I actually left a good comment about his customer service skills. I don't expect an award for leaving that positive comment but I point it out because my goal wasn't to PUNISH the seller- just to provide a fair, accurate feedback for that transaction. Leaving no feedback saves you from possible angry messages or harassment but it also, like you said, helps keep an inaccurate feedback score going for future buyers. Theoretically, if other buyers experienced what you did in the past and left feedback about it, you might have been more likely to avoid experiencing the situation yourself. I don't consider those neutral marks as a NO DEAL when I see them as a buyer. It just gives me a heads up to ask a question or two to confirm the condition before I click buy. I'm in your same boat still though. I didn't respond to the last message where he launched his tirade but I am a bit nervous about how to proceed if he contacts me again. I know the "correct" thing to do is not engage him and contact eBay to ask them to mediate and, possibly, help block my account from being messaged...but, like you said, there's that little voice that says "Just walk away and don't make trouble." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
just a normal guy kevin Posted February 17, 2015 Author Share Posted February 17, 2015 Also, as a general rule of thumb as a seller, take pictures of every detail when selling a record. Cover your ass. Not worth the hassle and if you have a photo displaying any imperfections they buyer can't really dispute. As a buyer - if you're going to be anal as hell, ask for more pictures of minor details or explanations beyond what is provided. If you aren't 100% positive you want it, don't buy it. There should be no issue whatsoever if you sought extra info and it arrived other than described / pictures. Going by a grading scale is too subjective and you can't really prove either side right or wrong. I really believe that you will get much further ahead if you approach disputes with empathy, a willingness to possibly lose $5 for return postage as a worthy cost of delivering good service, and come into the arbitration process with the plain, non-exciting facts. If you are in deed the victim of a scam, it will be apparent and all you need to do is contact the marketplace who has been tracking your messages within their system and provide them with any additional factual, objective information to help them better understand the situation beyond what they can see already. Then, you calmly walk away and let them sort it out. Quickly calling the buyer (or seller) a scammer and attempting to handle it mano a mano in an email war is going to nearly guarantee that the buyer, scammer or not, will get an opportunity to present your kamikaze-style of conflict resolution to the moderator as evidence of your communication and comprehension level. It really only helps to release steam and gain satisfaction from applying aggression to the other individual, and, at that point, you are no longer running a business transaction. It's a personal beef and you can't expect eBay or PayPal to have policies that protect the aggressor in a personal issue. Even if you hate your buyers and want to be extra skeptical, it benefits you, financially and feedback wise, to keep that to yourself and provide good customer service. Also, if you think buyers using your own description 'against' you is a risk or liability, it doesn't take much work to alter your descriptions. Either include all defects clearly, under-grade, or write "I won't describe the condition. You either want this album or not." The picky buyer issue can't arise if your description is clear and accurate about the item and what you want buyer's expectations or behavior to be. Edit: The above isn't specifically focused on you. Just a general opinion when it comes to how sellers can provide great service to honest buyers and protect themselves from rotten buyers in one, streamlined approach to selling. The personal stuff and the psychic private detective stuff doesn't help either party in a dispute. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nothingnatural Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 Sell me Split and their other albums/EPs I have everything they've done plus around 10 test pressings but that stuff will never be going anywhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
just a normal guy kevin Posted February 17, 2015 Author Share Posted February 17, 2015 The copy I bought was the variant with Superman on the cover. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suchashorttime Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 I really believe that you will get much further ahead if you approach disputes with empathy, a willingness to possibly lose $5 for return postage as a worthy cost of delivering good service, and come into the arbitration process with the plain, non-exciting facts. If you are in deed the victim of a scam, it will be apparent and all you need to do is contact the marketplace who has been tracking your messages within their system and provide them with any additional factual, objective information to help them better understand the situation beyond what they can see already. Then, you calmly walk away and let them sort it out. Quickly calling the buyer (or seller) a scammer and attempting to handle it mano a mano in an email war is going to nearly guarantee that the buyer, scammer or not, will get an opportunity to present your kamikaze-style of conflict resolution to the moderator as evidence of your communication and comprehension level. It really only helps to release steam and gain satisfaction from applying aggression to the other individual, and, at that point, you are no longer running a business transaction. It's a personal beef and you can't expect eBay or PayPal to have policies that protect the aggressor in a personal issue. Even if you hate your buyers and want to be extra skeptical, it benefits you, financially and feedback wise, to keep that to yourself and provide good customer service. Also, if you think buyers using your own description 'against' you is a risk or liability, it doesn't take much work to alter your descriptions. Either include all defects clearly, under-grade, or write "I won't describe the condition. You either want this album or not." The picky buyer issue can't arise if your description is clear and accurate about the item and what you want buyer's expectations or behavior to be. Edit: The above isn't specifically focused on you. Just a general opinion when it comes to how sellers can provide great service to honest buyers and protect themselves from rotten buyers in one, streamlined approach to selling. The personal stuff and the psychic private detective stuff doesn't help either party in a dispute. Oh I don't disagree at all. My perspective is just that there are ways to be savvy consumers / sellers and avoid these situations all together. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
just a normal guy kevin Posted February 17, 2015 Author Share Posted February 17, 2015 Klefki 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebunk Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 Also, as a general rule of thumb as a seller, take pictures of every detail when selling a record. Cover your ass. Not worth the hassle and if you have a photo displaying any imperfections they buyer can't really dispute. As a buyer - if you're going to be anal as hell, ask for more pictures of minor details or explanations beyond what is provided. If you aren't 100% positive you want it, don't buy it. There should be no issue whatsoever if you sought extra info and it arrived other than described / pictures. Going by a grading scale is too subjective and you can't really prove either side right or wrong. yes yes yes to all of this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoneyFrosted Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 It sounds like I've been really lucky. I've been buying and selling on Discogs and also buying from eBay (very sparsely) for a couple years and I can count the number of conflicts I've had on one hand. Although I haven't racked up 500 sells or anything. One time I was bidding on a record lot of an OG Exmilitary, No Love Deep Web, and an Exmilitary cassette. I lost, but I got a 'second chance offer' or whatever where the seller can turn the items over to the 2nd highest bidder if something goes wrong. Well it turns out he had a second 'set' of these items, minus No Love Deep Web. I wasn't really sure that was how it was supposed to be used, I thought it was like if the highest bidder's credit card is declined or something, not for selling extra items in an altered state. I kinda just let it happen, and didn't leave negative feedback, and found No Love Deep Web on Soundstage Direct or something for twenty bucks so it worked out. One of the first records I bought was a 5 dollar copy of AnCo's Fall Be Kind, graded VG+. It was bashed to shit. I just thought, oh well, it was five bucks. Recently I sold something to a guy on Discogs, and after payment I noticed I had been mistaken in my shipping cost because he lived in Canada. I sent him a polite message about my mistake, and the extra shipping. He replied, 'If you can't stand by your invoice just send me a refund.' I thought that was pretty blunt and hardheaded, but after all it was my mistake, so I sent a refund and cancelled the order. But he left me neutral feedback that just said 'C'est la vie!' That just baffled me. It was my one and only non positive feedback, but it doesn't matter much because buyers just see 100% positive. I'm actually really surprised that I haven't gotten any negative feedback at all. Not that I'm a terrible buyer or seller, but I figured sometime over the course of my collecting, USPS would smash something or lose something, or the mailer I sent would be left out in the snow or some other similar misfortune, and someone would lose their shit at me. I know that was boring to read but I'm just here for the stories. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hickey Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 All of this is well and good, but one thing a lot of people are forgetting is that most of the people selling records on eBay or Discogs aren't running a business - they're just doing this to make a little extra money or as a hobby to fund buying new records. I think it's unrealistic to expect everyone who sells records to grade things 100 percent accurately based on Goldmine standards - which is difficult enough for professionals, let alone a dude looking to unload some records he doesn't want anymore. There should be a mutual level of understanding on behalf of the buyer and the seller and honest communication before someone leaves neutral or negative feedback or calls someone out on a message board, whether it be over the record's condition, shipping times, or any of the myriad things that can go wrong when making faceless transactions over the Internet and through the mail. chuck, 213041284s, roxymurphy and 1 other 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shinji Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 ^ I know you're speaking generally, but in my case, the guy runs a business. But thankfully he was happy to send me a partial refund and we called it even. I didn't ask for it, he offered, so we're square. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
just a normal guy kevin Posted February 18, 2015 Author Share Posted February 18, 2015 My seller owns a record store. I agree that some sellers are not professionals. The transactions are covered by the same marketplace policies though and any blunders, boners, or reasonable mistakes a "for the love of the game/feeding the family/just a guy who wants to sell a record, man" seller might make are, ultimately, still subject to those policies. Also, professionalism doesn't mean being an expert grader or a pro power seller. It means having a decent understanding of what the marketplace's rules are and accepting the consequences when you might, consciously or by accident, slip below those standards. In the end, a neutral or negative feedback never stopped a seller from getting better. The best sellers get a negative and move on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subdomestic Posted February 18, 2015 Share Posted February 18, 2015 Just curious what expected timeframes are for shipping out a record after receiving payment? Obviously it's not cool to rage out if it doesn't ship in 15 minutes, but what's reasonable? Three business days, a week, two weeks? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
just a normal guy kevin Posted February 18, 2015 Author Share Posted February 18, 2015 If a seller lives in a rural area or a location with rough weather and goes to the PO once a week, that'd be a >7 day turnaround which I think is a reasonable time, as long as the seller mentions it. Otherwise, within 3 business days for non-extreme cases? What's the consensus? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurtz Posted February 18, 2015 Share Posted February 18, 2015 Just curious what expected timeframes are for shipping out a record after receiving payment? Obviously it's not cool to rage out if it doesn't ship in 15 minutes, but what's reasonable? Three business days, a week, two weeks? Give the seller at least a week to ship. Most people can't go to the post office every day. tvham and chuck 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slushy Posted February 18, 2015 Share Posted February 18, 2015 Honestly, I don't ever bother with grading anything as everybody seems to perceive that shit in their own unique way. You can't go wrong if you take a minute to look the record/jacket over and just mention any imperfections that you can see and take a couple of photos if it's particularly scratched up or damaged. I don't sell records all that often, usually only around 50 once every year after a cull but I've never had a problem with anything being returned or anybody being unhappy with their purchase. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psus2h Posted February 18, 2015 Share Posted February 18, 2015 Just curious what expected timeframes are for shipping out a record after receiving payment? Obviously it's not cool to rage out if it doesn't ship in 15 minutes, but what's reasonable? Three business days, a week, two weeks?One business day unless otherwise specified. At least that's the standard I held myself to. ExtraFox 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hickey Posted February 18, 2015 Share Posted February 18, 2015 Give the seller at least a week to ship. Most people can't go to the post office every day. This. And if you absolutely need it faster, send a nice note and pay for priority mail. I typically can only make it to a post office on a Saturday, but if asked I can probably swing it during the week. kurtz and Duff 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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