There Will Be Hell Toupée! (The Donald Trump Thread)

[Bladewillisisdead]

PSA:

 

No one read Atlas Shrugged if you haven't already. It's garbage literature and toxic ideas.

Edited June 5, 2016 by Bladewillisisdead

[Bladewillisisdead]

Ayn Rand died sick, alone, and on government assistance. Sadly her bullshit works didn't follow her.

 

No one is whining about not getting free college. Or free stuff in general. I AM saying "Fuck Ayn Rand. I wish she could die twice."

[AlexH.]

I long for the libertarian utopia of the future where roads and law enforcement are privatized and there are no overbearing governmental agencies dictating what chemical waste I can dump into rivers or food. This does not sound shitty as hell

 

I don't blame anyone who doesn't trust the government (some of my best friends are conservative!), and you can assume the best in people all you want, but if you think billion dollar multinational corporations would give a single fuck about health/safety/ethical/environmental concerns if there was no oversight standing in their way, I don't know what to say to you. Capitalism needs a referee, without it what hope do the weak have against the powerful? Pointing out the ineffectiveness of corrupt and/or gutted government agencies is not s compelling counter-argument. 

[heyimdb]

1 minute ago, Bladewillisisdead said:

Libertarianism: the fedora and vape pen of politics

 

 

I flirted with libertarian ideas as a young adult. Ultimately I couldn't get past the lack of humanity. It doesn't want to address the broken system that's fucked up and destroyed large portions of the population. It just wants less regulations + magic to = success. Too much greed and selfishness dressed up as "every man for himself" bullshit. I've pissed on copies of The Fountainhead and I'd do it again.

Your view of the world is quite scary. So you believe in collectivism? The very fundamentals of socialism and Nazism? That's cool. 

I didn't know Nazis also pissed on books. I thought they just burned them. 

Last time I checked, the very fundamentals of Libertarianism are quite human and self-preserving. If I love life, liberty, and my pursuit of happiness, I guess that's just me.

When my ancestors fled from Czechoslovakia, they fled from socialism. I don't know, man. I'm just saying. 

[AlexH.]

Man this new guy really sucks. Like, right off the bat

[Shitty Rambo]

1 minute ago, Bladewillisisdead said:

Libertarianism: the fedora and vape pen of politics

 

 

I flirted with libertarian ideas as a young adult. Ultimately I couldn't get past the lack of humanity. It doesn't want to address the broken system that's fucked up and destroyed large portions of the population. It just wants less regulations + magic to = success. Too much greed and selfishness dressed up as "every man for himself" bullshit. I've pissed on copies of The Fountainhead and I'd do it again.

Can we not turn this into a typical VC pissing contest by calling people names? If that's your MO then take this 'pat me on the back simply for backing a candidate only good people like' bullshit back to the "safe space" Bernie thread where nobody is going to offend you by having a differing opinion.

 

You literally just used a lack of cooking skills as a point of contention to try and get people to feel bad for someone who has a 40/hr week job. Where's you empathy for people who got felony charges for having weed on them who will never get a 40/hr week job. They don't ever get to vote.

 

 

Of course things were drastically different 50 years ago. There are thousands of differing factors at play, comparing now and then doesn't make your point any stronger.

[Bladewillisisdead]

Just now, heyimdb said:

Your view of the world is quite scary. So you believe in collectivism? The very fundamentals of socialism and Nazism? That's cool. 

I didn't know Nazis also pissed on books. I thought they just burned them. 

Last time I checked, the very fundamentals of Libertarianism are quite human and self-preserving. If I love life, liberty, and my pursuit of happiness, I guess that's just me.

When my ancestors fled from Czechoslovakia, they fled from socialism. I don't know, man. I'm just saying. 

I believe in governments owing a debt to their citizens. I believe in governments protecting their citizens. Our system is too fucked to hope for either of those things. I'm anti-fascist but also anti-unregulated capitalism. 

 

I don't believe we should all get government appointed houses and food so that we are all equal despite or contributions. I think the system is grossly unfairly stacked in favor of the few. Unregulated capitalism would only strengthen and widen that divide.

 

Basically, I don't give a fuck how successful your stocks/business/whatever is, if you can buy yourself a solid gold toilet or some dumb shit you have more money than any human deserves to have and I would pay to watch the government take it from you by force.

[heyimdb]

7 minutes ago, AlexH. said:

I long for the libertarian utopia of the future where roads and law enforcement are privatized and there are no overbearing governmental agencies dictating what chemical waste I can dump into rivers or food. This does not sound shitty as hell

 

I don't blame anyone who doesn't trust the government (some of my best friends are conservative!), and you can assume the best in people all you want, but if you think billion dollar multinational corporations would give a single fuck about health/safety/ethical/environmental concerns if there was no oversight standing in their way, I don't know what to say to you. Capitalism needs a referee, without it what hope do the weak have against the powerful? Pointing out the ineffectiveness of corrupt and/or gutted government agencies is not s compelling counter-argument. 

Again, I keep hearing more and more about these billion dollar corporations. Who gives them power?

I try hard to imagine people don't really think that these companies are like some evil James Bond villain meeting around a table with sharks swimming in the background. 

Why do we have major corporations? Why do they have the power you assume they do? Who gave them power? Do you think that a multi million dollar company is going to start dumping waste in your back yard? 

"We need to cut some corners this month so we're going to dump our garbage in the Grand Canyon. Hey, the  government didn't make a law against it so that means it's not bad!"

With a free market, you are met with a constant service in exchange for profit.  That solves everything. It solves everything. As long as there is a need, there will be an answer because someone will benefit from it. 

Sorry if that's evil and selfish... but I would rather not constantly have a gun at my head to pay for all of these things I'm told I can't have unless I pay for them. 

[heyimdb]

The government does not own the economy. I don't think you guys get it. Nobody owns the economy. It makes no sense to regulate it. That's like telling someone how much air they're allowed to breathe. If you guys think the economy needs a referee, you're saying you need to pay someone to police how you spend your money. That's an oxymoron. 

[TheGhostOfRandySavage]

Here's an example that may be helpful.

 

I got my water bill last month. I was charged more for "waste water runoff" (the city charging me for rain water running off my property) than I got charged for my actual water use.

The city forces me to pay this fee, but they also make you pay a fine if you catch and keep more than 50 gallons of rainwater at a time. That's rain that falls from the sky.

So they effectively say: "Ok, we've got this rain water. We'll take it off your property, but you have to pay us for it. Oh, you don't want us to take it off and you want to keep it and use it? NOPE, fuck you. That's our water that's falling from the sky. You can't have it."

 

This sort of regulation and these kinds of charges are ridiculous, but you can expect more of this sort of thing if we turn toward a more socialist government. You have to take from somewhere.

[heyimdb]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=97cb-Ms7bug

This is just golden. I really do believe in the best of people. I just feel like people have the wool pulled over their eyes. 

[Bladewillisisdead]

1 minute ago, The Ghost of Randy Savage said:

Here's an example that may be helpful.

 

I got my water bill last month. I was charged more for "waste water runoff" (the city charging me for rain water running off my property) than I got charged for my actual water use.

The city forces me to pay this fee, but they also make you pay a fine if you catch and keep more than 50 gallons of rainwater at a time. That's rain that falls from the sky.

So they effectively say: "Ok, we've got this rain water. We'll take it off your property, but you have to pay us for it. Oh, you don't want us to take it off and you want to keep it and use it? NOPE, fuck you. That's our water that's falling from the sky. You can't have it."

 

This sort of regulation and these kinds of charges are ridiculous, but you can expect more of this sort of thing if we turn toward a more socialist government. You have to take from somewhere.

That's ridiculous and the kind of thing you can blame on your local government officials.

 

Big picture unregulated capitalism leads to 10 dudes with all the money dumping toxic waste wherever they feel like it. That's a generalized and broad statement, but what I'm saying is we need something in between "Pay us for the rain on your lawn" and "let's just let the market decide!"

[TheGhostOfRandySavage]

1 minute ago, Bladewillisisdead said:

That's ridiculous and the kind of thing you can blame on your local government officials.

 

Big picture unregulated capitalism leads to 10 dudes with all the money dumping toxic waste wherever they feel like it. That's a generalized and broad statement, but what I'm saying is we need something in between "Pay us for the rain on your lawn" and "let's just let the market decide!"

Keep in mind that Libertarians don't want to destroy the government. They want to lessen it's impact on people's daily lives and downsize it. A lot of what you look for in military spending cuts, they (we) see in other places. It's not a complete deregulation the markets, but we can't go around taking money from everyone to give to those less fortunate, because there is always someone less fortunate than the next guy.

[heyimdb]

5 minutes ago, Bladewillisisdead said:

That's ridiculous and the kind of thing you can blame on your local government officials.

 

Big picture unregulated capitalism leads to 10 dudes with all the money dumping toxic waste wherever they feel like it. That's a generalized and broad statement, but what I'm saying is we need something in between "Pay us for the rain on your lawn" and "let's just let the market decide!"

Broken record. Dude keeps saying he wants to pay someone to regulate something that belongs to nobody. 

[Bladewillisisdead]

2 minutes ago, heyimdb said:

Broken record. Dude keeps saying he wants to pay someone to regulate something that belongs to nobody. 

No. Businesses need to be regulated because people are greedy pieces of shit. Without anti-trust and anti-monopoly regulations right now there'd probably be one or two companies controlling the world or some other dystopic shit. Ideally the system would give everyone their fair share/opportunity but that's just not how capitalism works out.

[heyimdb]

44 minutes ago, Bladewillisisdead said:

I believe in governments owing a debt to their citizens. I believe in governments protecting their citizens. Our system is too fucked to hope for either of those things. I'm anti-fascist but also anti-unregulated capitalism. 

 

I don't believe we should all get government appointed houses and food so that we are all equal despite or contributions. I think the system is grossly unfairly stacked in favor of the few. Unregulated capitalism would only strengthen and widen that divide.

 

Basically, I don't give a fuck how successful your stocks/business/whatever is, if you can buy yourself a solid gold toilet or some dumb shit you have more money than any human deserves to have and I would pay to watch the government take it from you by force.

Your problem in a nut shell is your last sentence. See, you would pay to watch the government take it. You already do pay the government to fuck all of us. And you seem very compliant and all too eager to do so. "Unfair" is life, dude. 

[Bladewillisisdead]

Just now, heyimdb said:

Your problem in a nut shell is your last sentence. See, you would pay to watch the government take it. You already do pay the government to fuck all of us. And you seem very compliant and all too eager to do so. "Unfair" is life, dude. 

No, I'm saying the government needs to stop fucking us and start making progress towards a better system. It's not about fair/unfair. As much as I distrust the government, I believe companies like Wal-Mart are doing far more harm to society/the economy/etc.

 

However, if there was a "watch the Walton family be publicly executed while Papa John looks on and is told he's next" tax I'd pay the share of everyone on this board.

[TheGhostOfRandySavage]

1 minute ago, Bladewillisisdead said:

No, I'm saying the government needs to stop fucking us and start making progress towards a better system. It's not about fair/unfair. As much as I distrust the government, I believe companies like Wal-Mart are doing far more harm to society/the economy/etc.

 

However, if there was a "watch the Walton family be publicly executed while Papa John looks on and is told he's next" tax I'd pay the share of everyone on this board.

I don't get you, dude. In one breath you talk about how we all need to look out for and help one another, and in the next you call for public executions. You know the only way to see this happen? Fucking go out and do it. We all know you won't because you're using hyperbole and it's not what you actually believe, but come on. That shit's excessive.

[heyimdb]

7 minutes ago, Bladewillisisdead said:

No. Businesses need to be regulated because people are greedy pieces of shit. Without anti-trust and anti-monopoly regulations right now there'd probably be one or two companies controlling the world or some other dystopic shit. Ideally the system would give everyone their fair share/opportunity but that's just not how capitalism works out.

False. Capitalism works. We have no capitalism in our economy on a large successful scale. We have corporatism. You fail to see the difference and you make an unintelligent generalization. 

What are these amazing greater good anti-trust and anti-monopoly regulations you speak of that we have right now that are doing such a fantastic job? 

Again, you are a broken record. "I need the government to take care of everyone because I think they can't take care of themselves. Let's pay them to control money."

 

[heyimdb]

5 minutes ago, Bladewillisisdead said:

No, I'm saying the government needs to stop fucking us and start making progress towards a better system. It's not about fair/unfair. As much as I distrust the government, I believe companies like Wal-Mart are doing far more harm to society/the economy/etc.

 

However, if there was a "watch the Walton family be publicly executed while Papa John looks on and is told he's next" tax I'd pay the share of everyone on this board.

You're saying the government needs to stop fucking us. Yet you repeat yourself over and over about how you want to pay them to fuck us. Go back and read your arguments. They make no sense. 

[AlexH.]

Corporations are not evil, they just do not have a moral compass. Their only interest is maximizing profits for their shareholders. Again: this is not evil or sinister in some way, it's just how it is. What sucks is that this turns everything into a cost-benefit analysis, and if the benefit outweighs the cost, barring any oversight, they gon' exploit whatever is in their path. This has been proven time and time again by companies who have decided that there is no significant financial disincentive to:

- improperly disposing of toxic chemicals

- decimating natural resources

- denying service to minority groups

- burying research that reflects poorly on their industry

- exploiting workers in vulnerable positions & busting up unions

- colluding with "competition" to avoid actual competition and maintain regional monopolies

 

34 minutes ago, heyimdb said:

With a free market, you are met with a constant service in exchange for profit.  That solves everything. It solves everything. As long as there is a need, there will be an answer because someone will benefit from it.

I have the need for my immediate concerns of health and safety for me and my family to not be steamrolled by the first conglomerate that stands to gain a dollar by exploiting something I hold dear. The "free market" may solve some things, most of them probably money-related. We may never know, since there will probably never be a pure free market until all the libertarians build a utopian moon colony and fuck off to it. but there are societal needs that are unprofitable to meet, or should not be approached with that kind of mindset, and that doesn't go away just by getting rid of whatever barriers to economic liberty you perceive. 

[heyimdb]

I think this guy is one of those people I see in videos at Trump Rallies that get all angry and contradict themselves and just flip out about their social vendetta of the day. 

Coffee Shop Revolutionaries and such. 

[AlexH.]

I remember when this was predominantly a punk board and "eat the rich" wouldn't have been an unpopular opinion :-/ bummer how things change. 

[heyimdb]

4 minutes ago, AlexH. said:

Corporations are not evil, they just do not have a moral compass. Their only interest is maximizing profits for their shareholders. Again: this is not evil or sinister in some way, it's just how it is. What sucks is that this turns everything into a cost-benefit analysis, and if the benefit outweighs the cost, barring any oversight, they gon' exploit whatever is in their path. This has been proven time and time again by companies who have decided that there is no significant financial disincentive to:

- improperly disposing of toxic chemicals

- decimating natural resources

- denying service to minority groups

- burying research that reflects poorly on their industry

- exploiting workers in vulnerable positions & busting up unions

- colluding with "competition" to avoid actual competition and maintain regional monopolies

 

I have the need for my immediate concerns of health and safety for me and my family to not be steamrolled by the first conglomerate that stands to gain a dollar by exploiting something I hold dear. The "free market" may solve some things, most of them probably money-related. We may never know, since there will probably never be a pure free market until all the libertarians build a utopian moon colony and fuck off to it. but there are societal needs that are unprofitable to meet, or should not be approached with that kind of mindset, and that doesn't go away just by getting rid of whatever barriers to economic liberty you perceive. 

Everything is profitable. Waste management is a necessity. Healthcare is a necessity. Transportation. These are all things that that be provided efficiently and affordably in a free market. If it is a demand that needs to be met, someone will exchange for it. Why does the government need to be involved? Why should the few have to pay for the many? 

[heyimdb]

6 minutes ago, AlexH. said:

I remember when this was predominantly a punk board and "eat the rich" wouldn't have been an unpopular opinion :-/ bummer how things change. 

I think Bad Brains would have disagreed with you. And I also have to give props to my man RA The Rugged Man when he said that the most popular opinion isn't the best opinion. I mean... look at the the third reich. That was a pretty fuckin popular opinion.