Duff Posted September 8, 2009 Share Posted September 8, 2009 Randy Johnson played nearly twice as many seasons as Koufax so most stats will be in Johnson's favor because of that. Koufax's winning % is higher, his ERA and WHIP is lower, has more shutouts and has more complete games despite playing in only 12 seasons to Johnson's 21+ seasons. Koufax also has 1 MVP, Johnson has none. Koufax won the pitching triple crown in each of his 3 Cy Young seasons. in his era there was only 1 Cy Young given out, not 2 for each league like in Johnson's era. Koufax has thrown 3 no-hitters and 1 perfect game to Johnson's 1 no-hitter and 1 perfect game. Koufax has 2 world series MVP's to Johnson 1 co-MVP. Koufax is also the youngest player to ever be elected into the hall of fame. i think if Koufax played as long as Johnson his numbers would definitely be higher than Johnson's and he would hands down be the best pitcher of all time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duff Posted September 8, 2009 Share Posted September 8, 2009 the pirates now hold the coveted record of most consecutive losing seasons, with 17. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dynamitekid Posted September 8, 2009 Share Posted September 8, 2009 I believe that longevity should have a part in it. Koufax's peak was only 6 years and then he was done. Johnson's peak was for over 10 seasons. Also, over course his ERA and Whip would be lower. He only pitched for 10 seasons. As far as the complete games and shutouts, it was a completely different era. It is kind of apples and oranges but I think Johnson was better for a longer period of time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kirbypuckett Posted September 8, 2009 Share Posted September 8, 2009 17 years! 17 years! 17 years! That's terrible, but what about what the Phillies once did, lost for 16 seasons, went over .500 once, then lost 16 more. The Pirates will come awfully close to 20 though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
salparadise Posted September 8, 2009 Share Posted September 8, 2009 Brandon Inge hit a home run, in 2 seperate games, for 2 different kids, in a children's hospital this season. 1 a cancer patient and the other had a heart transplant. Brett Gardner hit 1 homer this season for little girl with cancer. both after they were asked by the kids to hit a homer. how awesome and amazing is that. I wish that I was a little kid with cancer instead of an adult with cancer, I would literally probably die happy if any of my favorite players hit a home run for me. Wish I could get in touch with the right people to even get the gears turning in the right direction for that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travis Posted September 9, 2009 Author Share Posted September 9, 2009 Can the Angels please just release Fuentes and let him be someone else's problem? I dont know how someone who cant locate a 90 mph fastfall with no movement and a below average breaking ball became a closer in the MLB. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mediocore Posted September 9, 2009 Share Posted September 9, 2009 I said arguably and Randy Johnson or Warren Spahn aren't even in the equation for best left-handed pitcher ever. Well maybe Spahn but, for me, not Johnson. He's similar to Nolan Ryan in regard to his longevity is remarkable but I just don't see him as the best ever.Averaging almost a no-hitter per year over six years is pretty damn dominant. I don't know, dude. Johnson was pretty dominant during his prime years (just like Koufax). To take the longevity argument out of it (which I don't think is entirely fair -- longevity is criminally underrated), let's focus on a 6-year "prime" period: Koufax (ERA+: 1961-66) 123 141 159 187 160 190 Randy Johnson (ERA+: 1998-2002, 2004) 135 186 181 188 197 177 Johnson's K/9 was also higher over those years. The main difference seems to be WHIP; Johnson walked more batter's than Koufax, so, in the end, they were probably equally "unhittable" during that stretch (the H/9 numbers are pretty similar, with Koufax getting the slight edge). Finally, here's an average 162-game season from each: Koufax: 16-8 / 131 ERA+ / 229 K / 1.109 WHIP Johnson: 17-9 / 136 ERA+ / 272 K / 1.171 WHIP I don't think you can discount what Johnson's done at all. The game has changed a lot over the years, so of course Johnson isn't going to compare in terms of CG and SHO and what have you. But when you compare them within their own era, I think it's arguable that Johnson was the more dominant pitcher (and did so when offensive performance was regularly through the roof). Not to mention Koufax played on markedly better teams over his career. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flood Posted September 9, 2009 Share Posted September 9, 2009 koufax played against a much less diluted talent pool... half the number of teams meant the majority of dudes in the majors today would toiling in AAA for their entire careers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mediocore Posted September 9, 2009 Share Posted September 9, 2009 koufax played against a much less diluted talent pool... half the number of teams meant the majority of dudes in the majors today would toiling in AAA for their entire careers. You can make a similar case for any era. Babe Ruth/Jimmie Foxx/Ty Cobb/etc. never faced black players; MLB lowered the pitcher's mound in 1969, making it easier on hitters; free-agency/increased salaries; better training regimes; etc. It's impossible to be completely fair in comparing eras, which is why you compare players against their own era first and then compare across multiple eras. I think the "plus" stats (ERA+, OPS+, etc.) do a reasonably fair job of that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travis Posted September 9, 2009 Author Share Posted September 9, 2009 Pretty interesting to see those numbers. Id have to say Johnson was better since the numbers are so similar and Johnson's longevity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dynamitekid Posted September 9, 2009 Share Posted September 9, 2009 damn, the rangers are red hot right now. I would LOVE to see them make the playoffs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travis Posted September 10, 2009 Author Share Posted September 10, 2009 damn, the rangers are red hot right now. I would LOVE to see them make the playoffs. They are but they were just beating the shit out of the awful Indians. Not sure who else they have been playing lately. Id like to see them make the playoffs so that the Red Sox dont make it. Angels havent been able to beat either team but Ill take my chances with Texas over Boston. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcm1610 Posted September 10, 2009 Share Posted September 10, 2009 Victor Martinez just had a pretty big bases-clearing double pinch-hitting just now. Too bad its against the Orioles and it should never be that close to begin with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
invaderjay Posted September 10, 2009 Share Posted September 10, 2009 OK, sorry to break topic here. But can we make a prediction for the series right now? I still re-learning everything and I am interested in what your thoughts are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travis Posted September 10, 2009 Author Share Posted September 10, 2009 AL Angels vs. Red Sox - Angels Yankees vs. Tigers - Yankees Angels vs. Yankees - Angels NL Cardinals vs. Colorado - Cardinals Phillies vs. Dodgers - Phillies Cardinals vs. Phillies - Cardinals WS Angels vs. Cardinals - Angels in 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dynamitekid Posted September 10, 2009 Share Posted September 10, 2009 AL Angels vs. Red Sox - Angels Yankees vs. Tigers - Tigers Angels vs. Tigers - Tigers NL Cardinals vs. Colorado - Cardinals Phillies vs. Dodgers - Dodgers Cardinals vs. Dodgers - Dodgers WS Tigers vs Dodgers - Tigers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duff Posted September 10, 2009 Share Posted September 10, 2009 ALAngels vs. Red Sox - Angels Yankees vs. Tigers - Yankees Angels vs. Yankees - Angels NL Cardinals vs. Colorado - Cardinals Phillies vs. Dodgers - Phillies Cardinals vs. Phillies - Cardinals WS Angels vs. Cardinals - Angels in 6 what a surprise Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flood Posted September 10, 2009 Share Posted September 10, 2009 AL Angels vs. Red Sox - Angels Yankees vs. Tigers - Yankees Angels vs. Yankees - Yankees (altho this will be the most epic series of the playoffs) NL Cardinals vs. Colorado - Cardinals Phillies vs. Dodgers - Phillies Cardinals vs. Phillies - Phillies WS Yankees v. Phillies - Yanks in 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mclz Posted September 10, 2009 Share Posted September 10, 2009 I agree with everything except I think Dodgers will beat the Phillies and Yankees will win in game 6. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travis Posted September 10, 2009 Author Share Posted September 10, 2009 ALAngels vs. Red Sox - Angels Yankees vs. Tigers - Tigers Angels vs. Tigers - Angels NL Cardinals vs. Colorado - Cardinals Phillies vs. Dodgers - Dodgers Cardinals vs. Dodgers - Dodgers WS Tigers vs Dodgers - Tigers I assume you meant to pick the Tigers over the Angels? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travis Posted September 10, 2009 Author Share Posted September 10, 2009 ALAngels vs. Red Sox - Angels Yankees vs. Tigers - Yankees Angels vs. Yankees - Angels NL Cardinals vs. Colorado - Cardinals Phillies vs. Dodgers - Phillies Cardinals vs. Phillies - Cardinals WS Angels vs. Cardinals - Angels in 6 what a surprise Well of course Im going to pick my team to win it if I think they actually have a shot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travis Posted September 10, 2009 Author Share Posted September 10, 2009 I agree with everything except I think Dodgers will beat the Phillies and Yankees will win in game 6. Im not sure anyone in the NL will beat the Phillies in a 7 game series with the staff they have. I picked the Cards to beat them just cause its so hard to go to back to back WS. I wouldnt be suprised if the Phillies made it back there again tho. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dynamitekid Posted September 10, 2009 Share Posted September 10, 2009 I don't think Philly can do it with their bullpen. They have almost nothing out there and if their starting staff doesn't pitch well, they are cooked. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travis Posted September 10, 2009 Author Share Posted September 10, 2009 I don't think Philly can do it with their bullpen. They have almost nothing out there and if their starting staff doesn't pitch well, they are cooked. Yea good point. They might be able to move one of their starters to the pen in a short series tho. Pretty damn good starting staff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travis Posted September 11, 2009 Author Share Posted September 11, 2009 Dan, today we sqare off for a 3 game series in Anaheim. Should be a good one! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.