Family Friendly Rap God Posted July 26, 2014 Share Posted July 26, 2014 Exactly what I've always said about Joe Torre. He was always a mediocre manager but he gets some stacked Yankees teams and wins some some titles. I've always thought he was way over rated as a manager. As a lifelong Yankee fan, I see your point and I'm inclined to agree. I think the role of manager is overrated period in baseball but without a salary cap or really any restrictions at all, I'd go about it the Steinbrenner way as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lemongoat Posted July 26, 2014 Share Posted July 26, 2014 I think their biggest job is to make everyone not hate them Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sacredheart Posted July 26, 2014 Share Posted July 26, 2014 There's no good way to judge a manager other than wins, championships, and longevity. Gardenhire had a lot of talent -- Johan, Liriano, Nathan, Mauer, Morneau, Cuddyer. You see their role players he got credit for getting so much out of play pretty much just as well on other teams (Kubel, punto, neshek, and guys like that). It's all perception. He won with a good teams just like any other good manager would. Those first 6 only played together one year, and that was with Liriano throwing all of 120 innings in that season. Johan was gone by the time Mauer was hitting his prime and Morneau had that two good years. He had far from a stacked lineup compared to what Torre and La Russa have had. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebiglebowski Posted July 27, 2014 Share Posted July 27, 2014 Those first 6 only played together one year, and that was with Liriano throwing all of 120 innings in that season. Johan was gone by the time Mauer was hitting his prime and Morneau had that two good years. He had far from a stacked lineup compared to what Torre and La Russa have had. Getting hung up in the weeds. The point is that he had great players just like every other team that wins divisions, not who played together at what times. They had 2 MVPs and Cy Youngs. It's not like they were taking 4-A players and turning them into all-stars. Whether that talent was produced or purchased (in my mind), is mostly credited to the GM, who is highest oversight over a team of managers and scouts. I'm sure some managers are more involved in scouting and developing talent than others. We have no way to determine this. Even the GM vs. GM debate is cloudy, because the teams that favor purchasing their talent are giving up plenty of draft picks and prospects to the smaller budget teams, which is hard to holistically account for. Which circles back to my original point, that the only clear indicators of good management are winning and longevity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sacredheart Posted July 28, 2014 Share Posted July 28, 2014 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oErJoT65ASM It doesnt show Harrison stealing 2nd, but he escapes another rundown again! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lemongoat Posted July 30, 2014 Share Posted July 30, 2014 "Billy Beane is all over Jon Lester right now, trying to bring him to Oakland" That would be pretty nuts. Hammel sure hasn't cut it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3arl Posted July 30, 2014 Share Posted July 30, 2014 Can't believe the Astros almost swept the A's. If it wasn't for that awful top of the 9th last night we would've. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kyacrash Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 Apparently Lester's been traded to "a west coast team". As a Red Sox fan, I love Lester, but with this season I hope we trade away whatever we can and focus on next year already. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whoshotthefrog Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 Lester and Gomes were traded for Cespedes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lemongoat Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 Absolutely CRAZY. Billy has grape fruits for nuts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Family Friendly Rap God Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 I'm glad Lester is out the AL EAST, but Billy Beane is putting all of his chips on the table this year I see. If Oakland falls short of a WS title, I don't want to be him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lemongoat Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 I'm glad Lester is out the AL EAST, but Billy Beane is putting all of his chips on the table this year I see. If Oakland falls short of a WS title, I don't want to be him. I don't think Beane cares what anyone thinks. He has more job security than any GM in sports. The window the A's are in is only open through next season anyway. I think until other moves are made, 2015 takes a bit of a hit, but the window will still be open. Meanwhile they now have a 1-4 of Lester-Gray-Kazmir-Shark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 i really, really hope that boston's front office is telling lester right now "after you go get another ring, come on back and we'll give you everything you want" it just seems crazy to me that they don't go all-in signing him in the off-season. who else could possibly fill his role? and if they don't sign him, it's pretty much a 65% chance that he's in pin-stripes mowing down the sox on a regular basis for the next few years. NO NO NO. at this point, the only baseball i'll be watching until october will be in the spirit of seeing how cespedes works out for us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sacredheart Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 I know Lester is doing great this year, but he has a career 3.64 ERA, not nearly as great as Lee's 3.51 or Hamels 3.31 who are also on the market. Lester isnt someone I would have given a lot up for a two month rental. Especially with the rumors that Boston would send him to a team they knew wouldnt be able to resign him so he would come back to them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Family Friendly Rap God Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 I don't think Beane cares what anyone thinks. He has more job security than any GM in sports. The window the A's are in is only open through next season anyway. I think until other moves are made, 2015 takes a bit of a hit, but the window will still be open. Meanwhile they now have a 1-4 of Lester-Gray-Kazmir-Shark I've never understood what gave him so much security. Maybe as an A's fan you can shed some light on that. You guys were already doing great this year, now the A's have to be hands down WS favorites. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Family Friendly Rap God Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 A's trade Tommy Milone to the Twins for Sam Fuld Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 I know Lester is doing great this year, but he has a career 3.64 ERA, not nearly as great as Lee's 3.51 or Hamels 3.31 who are also on the market. Lester isnt someone I would have given a lot up for a two month rental. Especially with the rumors that Boston would send him to a team they knew wouldnt be able to resign him so he would come back to them. have you forgotten about what lester does in the post season? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Family Friendly Rap God Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 have you forgotten about what lester does in the post season? Colin Cowherd called him the ringmaster yesterday lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lemongoat Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 Lester has also pitched at a park notoriously difficult for lefties. He's a legit ace. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lemongoat Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 I've never understood what gave him so much security. Maybe as an A's fan you can shed some light on that. You guys were already doing great this year, now the A's have to be hands down WS favorites. http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/billion-dollar-billy-beane/ He also owns a small portion of the team. He'll be the GM until he wants to leave. Now, Millone for Fuld is the absolute dumbest thing Beane has ever done Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lemongoat Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 Rosenthal reports Tigers close on Price and Zobrist. I assume Castellanos would have to be a big piece there, so hey, what do I know? EDIT - MLBN just said they were citing a fake Rosenthal Twitter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuzzersonKillwell Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 Sounds like Lackey might be on the move as well. Sox are going to have quite the rotation for the next couple months. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travis Posted July 31, 2014 Author Share Posted July 31, 2014 That Lester move is a little scary for the Angels but they gave up a lot to get him and it's likely just a rental. They wont be able to afford Lester next year. They will still have a good team but they will have given up Cespedes for basically nothing if they dont win a WS this year. Just makes me want the Angels to take this division even more now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lemongoat Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 Love the Lackey trade from a Red Sox perspective. Something I didn't realize is that Lackey is under control for 500K next season. That's pretty sweet from the Cardinals side. Regarding Cespedes, he was gone after next season anyways. He has a sub .300 OBP over his last 950 PA's. Still all potential, but he's only regressed since 2012 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebiglebowski Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 I've never understood what gave him so much security. Maybe as an A's fan you can shed some light on that. You guys were already doing great this year, now the A's have to be hands down WS favorites. Having a book/movie which greatly exaggerated the impact of his personnel philosophy. Yeah, Scott Hatteberg really won them a ton of games! Forget about Zito/Mulder/Hudson... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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