whoshotthefrog Posted May 20, 2015 Share Posted May 20, 2015 His numbers aren't terribly different from his career stats. Just down a bit. More inclined to say that people shouldn't have expected anymore than to say this is unexpected. I agree. I think Heyward has been overrated since he came up. He hit a home run in his 1st at bat and everyone was thinking he was going to be the next big OF. Like Lebowski said, his career numbers put him in the middle of the pack of OF. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Posted May 20, 2015 Share Posted May 20, 2015 I agree. I think Heyward has been overrated since he came up. He hit a home run in his 1st at bat and everyone was thinking he was going to be the next big OF. Like Lebowski said, his career numbers put him in the middle of the pack of OF. didnt he get compared almost instantaneously to Griffey Jr? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuzzersonKillwell Posted May 20, 2015 Share Posted May 20, 2015 Wasn't Heyward like THE top prospect in 2010? He mashed in the minors and projected to be a stud I thought. Looks like his best year was in 2012, he showed a lot of that potential with 27 HR and 21 SB with a .270 BA. Obviously the Cardinals thought they could get him back there, maybe they saw something in his game? He is still only 25. Plus Miller wasn't great last year and Walden has good stuff. I don't know anything about the third player. I kind of thought the trade looked pretty good for both parties, and still may. I'd be surprised if Miller can keep this up, Catalina is right about the advanced metrics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Posted May 20, 2015 Share Posted May 20, 2015 Lets not forget that heyward is a free agent this winter, and he will get paid decently, somewhere, so the cardinals are in a spot where this trade could be a big bust if he is weak all season and signs elsewhere while miller continues to theive in ATL johnpdillard 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebiglebowski Posted May 21, 2015 Share Posted May 21, 2015 Also he barely played at the AAA level when putting up those numbers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catalinacaper Posted May 21, 2015 Share Posted May 21, 2015 Also he barely played at the AAA level when putting up those numbers. He played 50 games above high A ball, 3 in AAA, before debuting in 2010. He has essentially had an above average year followed by a below average year since then: 2010: 4.6 WAR, 142 Games 2011: 1.9 WAR, 128 Games 2012: 6.5 WAR, 158 Games 2013: 3.4 WAR, 104 Games (you could argue this wasn't a down year but see below) 2014: 5.2 WAR, 149 Games 2015: 0.4 WAR, 39 Games (on pace for ~1.5-2 WAR season) Interestingly in his "down" years (2011, 2013) both his oWAR and dWAR were below career average (dWAR particularly intriguing) and his BAPIP was >20 points below his career average of .303. He still managed a 120 wRC+ in 2013 though. If you believe in the pattern you could say he's due for another "down" year after an all star season last year. None of his hitting stats are TOO far below his career averages, but most are low (especially his .ISO, which was WAY down last season (.113 - excuse was batting leadoff blah blah)). If he keeps his average and OBP up, I think he can still have a 2013-like season which is still a contributor for the Cards. It just seems like lately he has had to trade power for average to keep his numbers up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebiglebowski Posted May 21, 2015 Share Posted May 21, 2015 50 games at AA does not constitute a sample size to put a lot of faith in a player to hit. It's not like it is a negative, I just think that 3k MLB plate appearance his 1k minor league ones at mostly lower levels are meaningless to the discussion. No one arguing his defensive capability, which makes up a decent percentage of his overall war. Strictly talking about his offense (at least, I was). You can also look at his numbers, throw out 2011 as an injury riddled year, and see a general decline from a 3-4 oWAR player down to a 2. Just a different story to paint with the same numbers. The guy's career OPS is .775. Those are not great numbers for a corner infielder. They put him in the vicinity of guys like Seth Smith and Lucas Duda, who are also fine major league players but not stars. All of this just loops back around to my original point (I think) -- he's a bit overrated offensively and it's time to stop expecting more out of him. He's a good player (maybe a very good player if you put a lot of emphasis on defensive metrics), but not gonna hit .300 with 25 bombs besides maybe a random career year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebiglebowski Posted May 21, 2015 Share Posted May 21, 2015 Random question -- you have to bet on Trout's highest WAR season for his career. Would you take his rookie year or every season to come from here out? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catalinacaper Posted May 21, 2015 Share Posted May 21, 2015 Random question -- you have to bet on Trout's highest WAR season for his career. Would you take his rookie year or every season to come from here out? Woof. Tough one. I think it's possible he has a better season in the next 5 or so. If I had to put my own money on it though, I would say no. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catalinacaper Posted May 22, 2015 Share Posted May 22, 2015 Will Smith caught with pine tar on his wrist, gets ejected, calls the Braves bench pussies for calling him out. Incredible. Baseball bros. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Posted May 22, 2015 Share Posted May 22, 2015 Will Smith caught with pine tar on his wrist, gets ejected, calls the Braves bench pussies for calling him out. Incredible. Baseball bros. best is fremann? was quoted after the game saying that they'd prefer pitchers to have better grip for more control, but that he needed to do a better job hiding it. lol so good Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sacredheart Posted May 22, 2015 Share Posted May 22, 2015 People were saying the same thing with Pineda last year. Everyone admits it happens all the time, they just take offense to it being so obvious. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Posted May 22, 2015 Share Posted May 22, 2015 that inning got out of hand real quick after that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catalinacaper Posted May 22, 2015 Share Posted May 22, 2015 that inning got out of hand real quick after that Braves have 4 innings of 7+ runs this season. Most in MLB. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catalinacaper Posted May 22, 2015 Share Posted May 22, 2015 John Hart apparently asked the Brewers if they would trade Lucroy recently. I love John Hart. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Posted May 22, 2015 Share Posted May 22, 2015 I LOVE Lucroy, and I really hope they dont trade him... but the fucking HAUL he could bring in would be pretty amazing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catalinacaper Posted May 22, 2015 Share Posted May 22, 2015 I LOVE Lucroy, and I really hope they dont trade him... but the fucking HAUL he could bring in would be pretty amazing. It is interesting considering the pieces the Braves have to work with now - but I don't think the Brewers would bite. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3arl Posted May 23, 2015 Share Posted May 23, 2015 I'm all for for shifts, but the Tigers playing their third baseman in right field is just absurd. You should at least have to keep the infielders in the correct order Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnpdillard Posted May 23, 2015 Share Posted May 23, 2015 best is fremann? was quoted after the game saying that they'd prefer pitchers to have better grip for more control, but that he needed to do a better job hiding it. lol so good kimbrel would be nothing without some tar on the hat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catalinacaper Posted May 23, 2015 Share Posted May 23, 2015 kimbrel would be nothing without some tar on the hat Yawn. The most beat to death comment on the internet yesterday. Yes, he had a spot on his hat. He NEVER changed hats. The spot was brought up a million times and even checked by umps. It wasn't pine tar. He habitually touched the dirt and then the same spot on his hat between pitches. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catalinacaper Posted May 23, 2015 Share Posted May 23, 2015 Plus, pine tar doesn't give you spin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebiglebowski Posted May 23, 2015 Share Posted May 23, 2015 Plus, pine tar doesn't give you spin. Doesn't it give you grip, which is how you create spin? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 23, 2015 Share Posted May 23, 2015 where are the 4 game suspensions, million dollar fines, and loss of draft picks? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuzzersonKillwell Posted May 23, 2015 Share Posted May 23, 2015 I think it's safe to say most players are trying to get an edge. Rosin, pine tar, hair products, sunscreen, whatever. Everyone is doing it, everyone knows. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 23, 2015 Share Posted May 23, 2015 and that's why deflategate is the biggest fucking joke in sports. once it broke, pretty much every player who made a comment more or less alluded to the fact that they all bend the rules one way or another for their own edge. everyone is doing it, everyone knows. get caught, get your slap on the wrist, move on. fuck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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