sacredheart Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 I'd think that quite a few heads might roll. Luhnow used to work for the Cards so there is a lot of motive there. Also I would think that Manfred will come down hard on it as it will be his first major ruling on anything and if the punishment isnt severe enough it isnt going to deter teams from doing it in the future. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 Where is Ry at????????? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 I'd think that quite a few heads might roll. Luhnow used to work for the Cards so there is a lot of motive there. Also I would think that Manfred will come down hard on it as it will be his first major ruling on anything and if the punishment isnt severe enough it isnt going to deter teams from doing it in the future. yeah, outside of federal crimes committed, what the Cards did will probably get a fairly significant league penalty, though I have no idea to what level that could be... gotta wonder what Manfried will do once they know exactly what the Cards have done. I mean, the Blacksox were banned for life from the game for throwing the world series, pete rose was banned for life for betting against/on his team as a manager, gotta think there are people in the front office who get life penalties for this. Wonder how far up the chain it goes. all the way up to Mozeliak? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sacredheart Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 Even if it was just a few rouge FO people that werent all that influential Manfried is still going to have to figure out how to make it deter other teams from doing it and saying it was just an intern or a marginal scouting director. The penalty for corporate team espionage needs to be so severe that no team tries it again. I would think it would have to be way more than just a few million and a draft pick or two. Could he force the team for sale and say that the owner should have had a better process of hiring non scumbags? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stl_ben Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 I am sure those responsible will be fired / fined / jailed. Would doubt it goes up high, but you never know. If it is just low level employees logging in under passwords that old employees weren't smart enough to change though, I highly doubt the team would be BANNED from baseball. I don't see how some low level employee checking to see if former employees stole team property would cause the team to have the best record in baseball? But I guess we will have to wait till more info comes out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stl_ben Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 Also I don't understand why the cardinals are so hated? I get Yankee hatred, and I get rival hatred....but it seems like the Cardinals are about the second most hated team in the country. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 Also I don't understand why the cardinals are so hated? I get Yankee hatred, and I get rival hatred....but it seems like the Cardinals are about the second most hated team in the country. because of fans who think: I don't see how some low level employee checking to see if former employees stole team property would cause the team to have the best record in baseball? But I guess we will have to wait till more info comes out. its not about this season of baseball, and nothing against you specifically, ben, but its the mentality that "were the best, we have always been the best, we do everything right" that a vast majority of cradinal fans think. youre definitely one of the better card fan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 Corporate espionage penalties are below covered by the Economic Espionage Act of 1996 Title 18 U.S.C., Section 1832 Theft of Trade Secrets Beneficiary must be anyone other than the owner of the misappropriated trade secret(s) Maximum individual sentence/fine: 10 years imprisonment/$250,000 or an alternative fine based on gain/loss figures. Maximum organizational fine: $5 million Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stl_ben Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 because of fans who think: "were the best, we have always been the best, we do everything right" . These fans must not remember the 1990s at all....that was not a good decade for the Cardinals. And if they think "we" do every thing right....why in the hell is Shelby Miller pitching in a Braves uniform! But (I guess its just me) I don't dislike a team because of it's fans...if I dislike a team it's because something the players/owners/city has done. Do I dislike the Yankees/Dodgers for just writing giant checks and trying to win with money , yes. Do the Reds occasionally piss me off for the way some of their players mouth off, yes (but I get over it quickly once they are eliminated). Do I hate the Redsox for continuing to beat the Cardinals in the World Series, yes (I had tickets to game 5 of the 2004 World Series.....damn sweep). But hey, if you hate a team, who am I to judge, if you like EVERY team it's not as exciting! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3arl Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 Also I don't understand why the cardinals are so hated? I get Yankee hatred, and I get rival hatred....but it seems like the Cardinals are about the second most hated team in the country. As an Astros fan, I've always hated the Cardinals from a rivalry standpoint and that dislike carried over when we switched to the AL. But yeah, it does seem to be that way for whatever reason. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3arl Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 Also, hacking into our database is one thing, but the part that really pisses me off is that they leaked the information they pulled from it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sacredheart Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 Cards are hated mostly for the "best fans in baseball" and "smartest fans in baseball" stuff they always brag about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sacredheart Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 I am sure those responsible will be fired / fined / jailed. Would doubt it goes up high, but you never know. If it is just low level employees logging in under passwords that old employees weren't smart enough to change though, I highly doubt the team would be BANNED from baseball. I don't see how some low level employee checking to see if former employees stole team property would cause the team to have the best record in baseball? But I guess we will have to wait till more info comes out. No one is saying the team itself should be banned from baseball, the players obviously have nothing to do with it, but they could do a front office ban. Also, it is so much more than seeing if former employees stole team property, they stole scouting reports, trade talks and proprietary stats. Not to mention that they were leaking all the stuff they took. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catalinacaper Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 This was literally Luhnow being stupid and not changing his passwords protecting sensitive information between the Cards and the Astros. Is it still illegal? Definitely. But its hardly hacking. stl_ben 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stl_ben Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 Also, it is so much more than seeing if former employees stole team property, they stole scouting reports, trade talks and proprietary stats. Not to mention that they were leaking all the stuff they took. Ill have to do some more reading when I get off....the one I read didn't mention leaking info. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catalinacaper Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 Ill have to do some more reading when I get off....the one I read didn't mention leaking info. I think he's alluding to a bunch of Astros private scouting info that was released online last year. Wasn't tied to a particular source then but that's what initially got the FBI involved. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brock N Roll Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 I live directly in the middle of Illinois. About 2 and half hours from Chicago and 3 hours to STL so literally everyone I know is a fan of the Cardinals or the Cubs (nobody cares about the White Sox). I'm not a fan of either team and I've had an amazing day of seeing these two fanbases argue about this nonstop all day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stl_ben Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 So the more I read and hear......we don't know shit yet. Hoping this is just one dummy that was pissed that Luhnow left and how he was doing things. But Ill wait to hear all the info before praise or hate anyone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sacredheart Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 So the more I read and hear......we don't know shit yet. Hoping this is just one dummy that was pissed that Luhnow left and how he was doing things. But Ill wait to hear all the info before praise or hate anyone. They have said it was executives, not just one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 They have said it was executives, not just one. Where did you see that? I stopped looking Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
just a normal guy kevin Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 I'm pretty sure this was just one guy who barely even worked there and that everyone in the organization maintained the Cardinal Way and had no knowledge this happened. In the end, we will all laugh about this big misunderstanding, except for the Cardinals organization and Cardinals fans...because we don't laugh at negligent and illegal activities. We hold ourselves to a higher standard; one that bears the responsibility and privilege of being a role model and example for our peers. True. Proud. The Cardinal Way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sacredheart Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 Where did you see that? I stopped looking The NYTimes article always says employees opposed to employee. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/the-legal-implications-of-the-cardinals-alleged-hacking/ fangraphs put all the fed legal issues in play, and below is what the Commish/MLB will have to play with: In the case of conduct by Major League Clubs, owners, officers, employees or players that is deemed by the Commissioner not to be in the best interests of Baseball, punitive action by the Commissioner for each offense may include any one or more of the following: (a) a reprimand; ( deprivation of a Major League Club of representation in Major League Meetings; © suspension or removal of any owner, officer or employee of a Major League Club; (d) temporary or permanent ineligibility of a player; (e) a fine, not to exceed $2,000,000 in the case of a Major League Club, not to exceed $500,000 in the case of an owner, officer or employee, and in an amount consistent with the then-current Basic Agreement with the Major League Baseball Players Association, in the case of a player; (f) loss of the benefit of any or all of the Major League Rules, including but not limited to the denial or transfer of player selection rights provided by Major League Rules 4 and 5; and (g) such other actions as the Commissioner may deem appropriate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sacredheart Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 Anyone else think those fines are low? No time can you ever fine a team more than $2 million and an owner $500K? That is still a drop in the hat compared to what they make all year long. Now not having representation at major league meetings, that is pretty interesting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 I mean, I guess its low? There really hasnt been precedent set in the past to fine teams/owners in baseball, so I think its new territory for the league. I thought it was really interesting that its up to 5 years per incident. So every time someone logged in, logged off and logged back in, etc, are each up to 5 years. I dont really believe anyone will go to jail for more than a year after all is said and done with appeals and whatnot, but the number of login's x 5 years could be insane. like, logging in 10 times could constitute up to 50 years in jail. what. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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