Pre-order fatigue: The poll

[hickey]

The Every Time I Die thread, which offers a pre-order for a record that doesn't get released until at least Oct. 13, got me thinking: I'm so sick and tired of all these pre-orders. A pre-order two months beforehand is way too early.

With all of the delays, mistakes and other mishaps that can happen along the way I think labels/distros/stores should start selling a record when they have it in hand. I have some pre-orders that I'm still waiting for from April (which I don't even know if they're even close to being done).

I'm as patient as the next guy and I like to know I have my copy of a record locked down, but I paid months and months ago for records and still don't have them. I'm going to estimate that I have a few hundred dollars tied up in preorders right now and I'm getting tired of it.

Are you guys suffering from pre-order fatigue? (see poll above)

And don't you think it'd be better for everyone if records were put up for sale when they were pressed and in stock?

NOT PART OF THE POLL (JUST AN AFTERTHOUGHT): I can understand in some instances where a small label is getting off the ground and needs to fund the pressing by having an early pre-order, that's cool with me if the label makes that perfectly clear.

[thedavidescapeplan]

holy fuck, yes.

[j4m35]

i don't think labels should use the money from pre-orders to fund the pressing of that record. that was not clear sorry

[hickey]

That question wasn't part of the poll, just an aftertought.

[flood]

if you don't like pre-orders... don't order them. simple as that.

personally i am an adult, and have a decent amount of patience and don't have this intense need for instant gratification every time i spend $10.

also theres a great feeling of wonder when you come home and theres a box on the porch and you have no idea what it is... thats nice.. we all could use more of that in our lives.

[ijux]

i've tired of it too, waiting ages before you get it, while the money goes right out the window. you shouldnt be able to order it before they know its done, and on its way out to the distributors

[circlingvultures]

I wouldn't mind it so much if it were closer. If you have the records and the covers are two weeks out. Do a pre order. If the tests haven't even been sent to you, there's no need for a pre order.

[Duff]

i'm starting to pre-order things less and less. unless it's something i know won't be able to get unless i pre-order, it i don't pre-order it to avoid waiting around while the record keeps getting hit with delay after delay. 2 months is definitely way too early to put up a pre-order. i think a month is pushing it a bit too.

posting pre-orders so early leaves both the consumer and retailer in a bind sometimes. the fiasco with the Everything Goes Numb record is a perfect example.

[nickheitman]

that afterthought was exactly why we did a preorder for the tigers jaw record. we don't plan on doing preorders for many of our releases, and this is the reason why. delays are always expected and can give labels a bad reputation.

[hickey]

if you don't like pre-orders... don't order them. simple as that.

personally i am an adult, and have a decent amount of patience and don't have this intense need for instant gratification every time i spend $10.

also theres a great feeling of wonder when you come home and theres a box on the porch and you have no idea what it is... thats nice.. we all could use more of that in our lives.

Flood, I'm a grown man and I'm as patient as the next guy, but pre-orders two, sometimes five, months before the actual record gets pressed is outrageous.

I like the Fat Wreck approach: 99 times out of 100 they won't put anything up for order until it's in-hand. You still have to be quick on the draw to get a colored copy, but you don't wait six months to get it.

[sharkticon]

yeah I've got 6-8 pre-orders I'm currently waiting on right now. And I'm still waiting for Thrice vinyl, Russian Circles, Pelican, and Junius to go up. Fucking take that, bank account.

[Guest Admin]

I see both sides of the argument, but i have to tell you this. If I don't post a pre-order for something say for the example, the new Every Time I Die record, Interpunk, Smartpunk, Amazon and others will do so and when we post orders for it when we get them, we won't sell any. That is why I pre-order so early for other labels' titles.

I pre-order for my titles because honestly, cash flow is ultra important here. Yes, there are delays and mistakes along hte way, but I have worked out a number of kinks and will have it figured out a lot better moving forward.

but like was mentioned, you don't have to pre-order anything. If everyone waits til records arrive and photos are taken, retailers may consider laying off on the advance pre-orders (but they might not.)

[adamlikesmusic]

They're nice when done in a timely manner, but waiting months on a preorder is a bit silly. I just noticed the other day, the preorder on here for that Mock Orange record. The thread was started March 11th, and is still stickied. Now, I don't know if it ever came in, and they just forgot to unsticky it, but if that isn't the case, it's been up for preorder for 5+ months. That's excessive, to me at least.

I also never really understood the whole "I like knowing I've secured a copy" argument - wouldn't it be the exact same if they just waited to sell until they have it in hand? It's not as if a lack of preorder means everyone else gets to order before you do.

[thedavidescapeplan]

My biggest complaint with pre-orders is that if I don't order it as soon as it goes up then there is a good chance I may not be able to get a copy of it. Because usually by the time they come in they have already been on sale for three months.

And beyond that most labels don't seem to care about giving updates as to what is going on. If they would come out and say what the delay is I'd be more understanding, but we essentially get left in the dark wondering where our money went.

[Guest Admin]

My biggest complaint with pre-orders is that if I don't order it as soon as it goes up then there is a good chance I may not be able to get a copy of it. Because usually by the time they come in they have already been on sale for three months.

And beyond that most labels don't seem to care about giving updates as to what is going on. If they would come out and say what the delay is I'd be more understanding, but we essentially get left in the dark wondering where our money went.

very good point

[thedavidescapeplan]

And I do think VC is way more open about when problems arise/what they are waiting on than most labels.

[Guest Admin]

And I do think VC is way more open about when problems arise/what they are waiting on than most labels.

we try, but we get so busy with so many titles that we drop the ball too. We have had a number of gnarly issues lately and doing our best to combat them, but if someone emails us, we tell them what's up. I just need to get better about saying progress along the way before hand.

[hookups96]

And I do think VC is way more open about when problems arise/what they are waiting on than most labels.

we try, but we get so busy with so many titles that we drop the ball too. We have had a number of gnarly issues lately and doing our best to combat them, but if someone emails us, we tell them what's up. I just need to get better about saying progress along the way before hand.

Should go back to the Monday Updates, I enjoyed reading those after a long weekend!

[Guest Admin]

we try, but we get so busy with so many titles that we drop the ball too. We have had a number of gnarly issues lately and doing our best to combat them, but if someone emails us, we tell them what's up. I just need to get better about saying progress along the way before hand.

Should go back to the Monday Updates, I enjoyed reading those after a long weekend!

I need to do those and my state of the union's more often. I will try my friends.

[wadeboggs]

My biggest complaint with pre-orders is that if I don't order it as soon as it goes up then there is a good chance I may not be able to get a copy of it. Because usually by the time they come in they have already been on sale for three months.

And beyond that most labels don't seem to care about giving updates as to what is going on. If they would come out and say what the delay is I'd be more understanding, but we essentially get left in the dark wondering where our money went.

this...totally backed!

[hickey]

I see both sides of the argument, but i have to tell you this. If I don't post a pre-order for something say for the example, the new Every Time I Die record, Interpunk, Smartpunk, Amazon and others will do so and when we post orders for it when we get them, we won't sell any. That is why I pre-order so early for other labels' titles.

I pre-order for my titles because honestly, cash flow is ultra important here. Yes, there are delays and mistakes along hte way, but I have worked out a number of kinks and will have it figured out a lot better moving forward.

but like was mentioned, you don't have to pre-order anything. If everyone waits til records arrive and photos are taken, retailers may consider laying off on the advance pre-orders (but they might not.)

This isn't a knock on VC, it's a knock on the entire practice of pre-ordering. I understand that you would lose business if you didn't get the pre-order up because it would drive people elsewhere. I guess the onus to cut out the excessive pre-orders falls to the labels.

And yeah, you and Flood can say "you don't have to pre-order anything" and "you have a choice not to," and whlie this is true, it also means you run the risk of not getting the record at all. The way vinyl is right now if you don't pre-order a popular title 6 months before it's actually released, you won't get one or you'll be forced to go to ebay and pay a bundle. Yeah, the choice is there, but if you actually want to own the record you do not have a choice at all.

[matt]

I have a pretty staunch stance on pre-orders on my side of things. Sure, I'll pre-order records from other labels and will continue to do so but for myself and the label this is one thing I won't budge on. To me its not really something I'd want to do and it just seems like I'd be begging for something to go wrong. I don't ever want to have the "why isn't my record here yet?" emails and/or people complaining about delays, which often times falls on others shoulders that the label has to take on the blame and responsibility since they've already taken in the cash from the buyer. More often than not people aren't patient and thats the bottom line. On the personal level I find it to be much more gratifying that I took in everything myself and didn't need to do pre-orders (basically makes a good way to almost go broke).

On the flipside of things I actually do here from a lot of people "When's the pre-order?" and I explain to them how things go on sale when everything is done. What does perplex me are the complaints from those select individuals who genuinely want to pre-order things and not wait for it to be out. I'm not sure if its just because they're so accustomed to pre-ordering or if they just don't think they'll have the money later on but I would like think buyers would be more inclined to wait for something to be done so that it cuts the waiting down tenfold.

[scottheisel]

I think the reason why Virgil posts pre-orders so early for other labels' titles is to gauge interest so he can figure out how many copies he should actually be ordering. Otherwise, he might order too much of one title and end up sitting on it for months before eventually taking a loss on it when he has to put it on sale.

[Just Another Tom]

The only thing i don't like about pre-orders is when a label advertises the release date, then puts the pre-order up a month earlier without warning, meaning people that don't check the internet daily miss out. Also because pre-orders go up before i can get it from a brick and mortar store i feel forced to buy the pre-order online especially if it is something that i know is going to sell out quickly. When i get to a real store i find that i flick through the racks and i am like, i am waiting for this in the post, have this, this will be sent when another pre-order i am waiting for is shipped.

I will still place pre-orders for as long as i want the record, i don't mind the wait. However i do get an empty feeling when i drop cash on records and don't receive any post for a few weeks. I start thinking that it might have gotten lost... i check my emails and the thing hasn't even been posted. Because i am in the UK and order a lot from the US i try to combine as much as possible in one post so i end up waiting for multiple records for that one pre-order to be released and even though i know it still hasn't been posted i still wake up every morning wondering what the post man will bring, i gets frustrating at times.

[jhulud]

The only thing i don't like about pre-orders is when a label advertises the release date, then puts the pre-order up a month earlier without warning, meaning people that don't check the internet daily miss out.

I will still place pre-orders for as long as i want the record, i don't mind the wait.

These two thoughts I share...