I have to draw the line somewhere

[thesack18]

My apologies of my lack of communication with the status of the final two volumes of the In The Red Volume 1.5 7" subscription. It has been my full intention all along to have released the final 2 volumes of this series by now. Unfortunately, this hasn't happened. I can blame it on my lack of organization, my lack of planning, and the financially difficult year we had this past year and are still having now. We have been making quite a few changes within Vinyl Collective and Suburban Home and hope that these changes will allow us to become more organized and to plan our releases out in a better manner.

I understand how frustrating it is to be a year out and still not have all 4 volumes of this 7" series.

Both releases are at the pressing plant, but I do have 2 releases ahead of them before they are manufactured. I assure you that both volumes will be pressed and I also assure you that I will send something in addition to the 2 7"s as a gesture of my appreciation for your patience. Thanks for your understanding in this matter.

Those of you trying to get my attention on our message board. I am sorry, but I prefer not to answer these types of questions on the message board. Your message board post did get me to write this email so thanks for reminding me to let everyone know what is going on.

Thank you for your patience and your support of In the Red.

I'll be happy when these arrive.

[themean]

while it may take a long time, at least this is one failed venture that is making things right.

I would say that statement is quite a bit premature.

it would be pretty easy for Virgil to file for bankruptcy and say, fuck everyone, and no one would get a penny. a late payment is better than no payment.

It's not that simple when filing a bankruptcy with an LLC. We don't have enough info to know if he is able to simply walk away after bankruptcy. It's possible he would still be personally liable if the LLC filed bankruptcy.

i agree talking shit is different than calling out, and i am all for calling out a problem that exists if emails arent answered etc. but for everyone who is not involved, and never was involved to hop in and talk shit in every thread is pretty weak.

I think the public pressure from everyone is best chance to get labels paid / preorders sent / etc.

but i gotta at least give him credit for not just throwing his hands in the air and walking away from it all completely. I would imagine a good portion of people not involved that talk shit would not still be trying to get out of the hole if they were in the situation.

Again, premature.

[jhulud]

i agree talking shit is different than calling out, and i am all for calling out a problem that exists if emails arent answered etc. but for everyone who is not involved, and never was involved to hop in and talk shit in every thread is pretty weak.

This.

[plasma36]

Calling out is one thing, talking shit is another.

And talking shit about his business practices is one thing, talking shit about the man himself is completely uncalled for.

[themean]

i agree talking shit is different than calling out, and i am all for calling out a problem that exists if emails arent answered etc. but for everyone who is not involved, and never was involved to hop in and talk shit in every thread is pretty weak.

This.

What makes someone involved? I consider the "underground music scene" (or whatever you want to call it) to be a community. I think we are all involved.

If a label can't release a record I want to hear because Virgil owes money, does that make me involved? What if I placed an order that got fucked up?

I like the fact that "we" are self-policing to a certain extent. This is, theoretically, what makes us different from pseudo-major indie labels and the like.

[themean]

Calling out is one thing, talking shit is another.

And talking shit about his business practices is one thing, talking shit about the man himself is completely uncalled for.

I don't think the line is as sharp as you think. The way he deals with this situation (and the fact that he ended up here) directly relates to his character as a human being.

Under your logic, we should only call Bernie Madoff out about his business practices, and not say anything about his character.

[alex13]

I like the fact that "we" are self-policing to a certain extent. This is, theoretically, what makes us different from pseudo-major indie labels and the like.

To what extent is appropriate? To be exact, to what extent is actually effective?

[dangerdave]

Under your logic, we should only call Bernie Madoff out about his business practices, and not say anything about his character.

Are you seriously going to use this argument? Bernie Madoff swindled billions of dollars and planned on doing it the whole time. Of course you should call out his practices and character. Virgil ended up in debt and is paying people back when he can. A ton of people are in debt in this country, does that mean we should call of them terrible people and assume that they have bad character?

And anyways, does he owe you any money personally? I really want to know why you're so intent on painting him as a bad person. I have no personal stake in any of this, I'm just really curious. Sure, he owes money, but there's evidence that he's paying people back, however slow it may be happening.

[lonesomexloveus]

Under your logic, we should only call Bernie Madoff out about his business practices, and not say anything about his character.

Virgil ended up in debt and is paying people back when he can.

...

Sure, he owes money, but there's evidence that he's paying people back, however slow it may be happening.

according to everyone posting here who was owed money, up until this point (and by this point i mean the thread where tre flipped his shit finally, and rightfully so, in my opinion), he was ignoring all emails and other correspondence regarding paying back said people who were owed money.

apparently, he had time to arrange a beer tour, and to post a collector of the day every single day without fail, but not to answer an email regarding something important. no, he does not owe me money, but yes, everyone should be disturbed that he was treating good respectable labels with such little regard.

maybe he's trying to right his wrongs now, but it almost seems insincere; like it's only happening because of this huge backlash on the messageboard. and to the people who think that you shouldn't say anything unless it personally involves you, if the whole world was full of people like you, nothing would get accomplished. few positive changes happen without social consciousness and caring about those outside of your bubble.

and for the record, i don't know him personally and haven't had any problems in my dealings with him or VC, but i do find the personal insults that bring his family into this to be very distasteful and reprehensible.

[servo]

how the fuck can you sit here and take vinyljunkie seriously? he doesnt even live in the midwest any more

[dangerdave]

Virgil ended up in debt and is paying people back when he can.

...

Sure, he owes money, but there's evidence that he's paying people back, however slow it may be happening.

according to everyone posting here who was owed money, up until this point (and by this point i mean the thread where tre flipped his shit finally, and rightfully so, in my opinion), he was ignoring all emails and other correspondence regarding paying back said people who were owed money.

apparently, he had time to arrange a beer tour, and to post a collector of the day every single day without fail, but not to answer an email regarding something important. no, he does not owe me money, but yes, everyone should be disturbed that he was treating good respectable labels with such little regard.

maybe he's trying to right his wrongs now, but it almost seems insincere; like it's only happening because of this huge backlash on the messageboard. and to the people who think that you shouldn't say anything unless it personally involves you, if the whole world was full of people like you, nothing would get accomplished. few positive changes happen without social consciousness and caring about those outside of your bubble.

and for the record, i don't know him personally and haven't had any problems in my dealings with him or VC, but i do find the personal insults that bring his family into this to be very distasteful and reprehensible.

I'm aware of that, but that's also just people posting here. VC does not represent every single label that exists. None of us can truthfully say that he ignored absolutely everyone. Negative experiences also are going to be talked about more than positive ones. Really, who's gonna post a thread about being paid finally?

And I'll agree with you on your second point, I'm really not trying to deny that he's done shit wrong, no one can deny that. It just gets really goddamn annoying when people drag it into every fucking thread.

And again, NONE of us really know other than the people involved. If stuff comes to light that shows that he was making zero effort to every person he owed money to, then yes, i'll retract what i'm saying and agree with them. Also, it's not that people who aren't owed shouldn't say anything, it's just that they shouldn't be the ones talking shit in every thread they can. It just seems like they take a weird sort of pleasure from firing shots at Virgil whenever they can and I find that extremely odd.

This whole situation is just dumb and I hope everyone gets whatever they're owed and people can stop being assholes.

[jimmythescumbag]

Also, it's not that people who aren't owed shouldn't say anything, it's just that they shouldn't be the ones talking shit in every thread they can. It just seems like they take a weird sort of pleasure from firing shots at Virgil whenever they can and I find that extremely odd.

This whole situation is just dumb and I hope everyone gets whatever they're owed and people can stop being assholes.

Exactly.

[harryq]

Also, it's not that people who aren't owed shouldn't say anything, it's just that they shouldn't be the ones talking shit in every thread they can. It just seems like they take a weird sort of pleasure from firing shots at Virgil whenever they can and I find that extremely odd.

This whole situation is just dumb and I hope everyone gets whatever they're owed and people can stop being assholes.

Exactly.

I'm with them.

[themean]

Under your logic, we should only call Bernie Madoff out about his business practices, and not say anything about his character.

Are you seriously going to use this argument? Bernie Madoff swindled billions of dollars and planned on doing it the whole time. Of course you should call out his practices and character. Virgil ended up in debt and is paying people back when he can. A ton of people are in debt in this country, does that mean we should call of them terrible people and assume that they have bad character?

And anyways, does he owe you any money personally? I really want to know why you're so intent on painting him as a bad person. I have no personal stake in any of this, I'm just really curious. Sure, he owes money, but there's evidence that he's paying people back, however slow it may be happening.

My comment about Madoff was simply taking the previous statement to its logical extreme to show it didn't make much sense. Virgil is not Madoff. I figured that was obvious, but I guess I need to spell it out for you.

[vinyljunkie]

while it may take a long time, at least this is one failed venture that is making things right.

I would say that statement is quite a bit premature.

It's not that simple when filing a bankruptcy with an LLC. We don't have enough info to know if he is able to simply walk away after bankruptcy. It's possible he would still be personally liable if the LLC filed bankruptcy.

I think the public pressure from everyone is best chance to get labels paid / preorders sent / etc.

but i gotta at least give him credit for not just throwing his hands in the air and walking away from it all completely. I would imagine a good portion of people not involved that talk shit would not still be trying to get out of the hole if they were in the situation.

Again, premature.

i guess im not really sure how premature it is. Yeah there are a lot of people owed, etc. But there is also a trickling of labels and people saying they finally got paid, or their stock returned, or at least recieved a partial check or whatever. Does that make it an A+ would deal with again situation? definitely not. but i think it does show some sort of effort and positive action, albeit slow.

whether or not he has the legal grounds to wipe his hands of it, etc is not really anyones business but his i guess. As we all know, just because someone is legally liable for paying someone else back does not mean that peson will ever see a dime.

There have been a lot of labels/distros that folded and went bankrupt and legally washed their hands clean and walked away and never paid a penny. And there have been countless situations where the label/distro that failed is still legally and technically responsible, but that didnt mean that anyone owed ever recieved a penny. They just disappeared, or started a new label under a new name, etc.

im just saying you gotta give the man SOME credit.

[birdwell]

choose to support the man or not...that's your fucking business.

it's the internet, you can voice your opinion on a situation that barely involves you in the least if you like. (regardless of what label/person you support)

disrespecting a man, his family over a situation that barely involves you in the least is fucking shitty.

again, I'm not saying Virgil deserves a pat on the ass and an "At A Boy" for finally paying people back some/all of the money they were owed (especially after not responding to e-mails/phone calls/whatever form of communication)...All I'm saying is, suppose for one fucking instance he was paying back smaller labels/people first with what he had/has and was scarred (maybe rightfully so) to respond to the bigger labels/peple he owed larger sums of money to...the lack empathy on this board is fucking pathetic.

I'm sure The Mean or googlemyass has never made a poor financial decission in their life...or not answered a phone call/text message/e-mail from a less than friendly person in their life. Fucking Saints, all of you, I'm sure of it.

Fuck Every One of you Piles of Shit. Go choke on fat bags of dick.

[xjustinxschwierx]

I would say that statement is quite a bit premature.

It's not that simple when filing a bankruptcy with an LLC. We don't have enough info to know if he is able to simply walk away after bankruptcy. It's possible he would still be personally liable if the LLC filed bankruptcy.

I think the public pressure from everyone is best chance to get labels paid / preorders sent / etc.

Again, premature.

i guess im not really sure how premature it is. Yeah there are a lot of people owed, etc. But there is also a trickling of labels and people saying they finally got paid, or their stock returned, or at least recieved a partial check or whatever. Does that make it an A+ would deal with again situation? definitely not. but i think it does show some sort of effort and positive action, albeit slow.

whether or not he has the legal grounds to wipe his hands of it, etc is not really anyones business but his i guess. As we all know, just because someone is legally liable for paying someone else back does not mean that peson will ever see a dime.

There have been a lot of labels/distros that folded and went bankrupt and legally washed their hands clean and walked away and never paid a penny. And there have been countless situations where the label/distro that failed is still legally and technically responsible, but that didnt mean that anyone owed ever recieved a penny. They just disappeared, or started a new label under a new name, etc.

im just saying you gotta give the man SOME credit.

for the record, Virgil returned all of my back stock with the exception of about 150 CDs...and has paid me back half of the money owed to my label.

[Guest afsdan]

themean for thewin in this one. self-policing is the best way.

Virgil's been ignoring my emails for a while now and while the money owed is little, I would like my stock back. Come on Virgil...communicate. Or do I have to say "motherfucker"?

[dangerdave]

Are you seriously going to use this argument? Bernie Madoff swindled billions of dollars and planned on doing it the whole time. Of course you should call out his practices and character. Virgil ended up in debt and is paying people back when he can. A ton of people are in debt in this country, does that mean we should call of them terrible people and assume that they have bad character?

And anyways, does he owe you any money personally? I really want to know why you're so intent on painting him as a bad person. I have no personal stake in any of this, I'm just really curious. Sure, he owes money, but there's evidence that he's paying people back, however slow it may be happening.

My comment about Madoff was simply taking the previous statement to its logical extreme to show it didn't make much sense. Virgil is not Madoff. I figured that was obvious, but I guess I need to spell it out for you.

Please, try to fit a little more condescension in your posts. The situations are completely different.

[burdenx]

Let's all chortle at Virgil's boners.

[lokithelion]

i agree talking shit is different than calling out, and i am all for calling out a problem that exists if emails arent answered etc. but for everyone who is not involved, and never was involved to hop in and talk shit in every thread is pretty weak.

This.

[joshua]

Virgil,

i've emailed you a couple of times. i'm one of these guys that can only post a stupid remark in a topic here and there. i can imagine how frustrating it can be to see you look away and act like nothing is going on. i've been thinking of posting a topic like that. and hey, it worked. didn't it?

good to hear you are working on your stuff. hope to get an email back from you one day.

[celebdeath]

It is true, people DO make poor financial decisions. All businesses will fail at some point. Every single one. Especially when they put their customers first, at the business' expense. So whilst I have very little idea as to what went on here, think about the years that he spent making you lot happy with your record purchases. Be mindful that people most likely lost their jobs out of this. Give the man a break to sort out the mess he's in. Yep, he wont make everyone happy, but thats the nature of the beast. If you wanna make everyone happy, dont go into business.

[blugel]

i like drawing circles as well as lines