circuit bored records Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 1. the stock market scene - why wouldnt those trades be voided? 2. how exactly did bruce make his way back into gotham from the prison? Those are good observations. My only major gripe with anything on first viewing: At first I hated how Bane gets blown away at the end and we don't see him at all after that. It's hard to believe after all the damage he took throughout the film that a gun blast from the batcycle into his bulletproof vest was going to do him in. Maybe he didn't die or something? But that would just be dumb. Especially if they don't show him being captured like the joker at the end of the TDK. But I'm also a firm believer and proponent of the "double tap" rule from Zombieland, the hero should always go back and pop 2 in the villain's skull at the end just to be sure. Just felt a little unresolved to me because of that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unwound Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 I was kinda bummed with some of those plot gaps too..but then I remembered that in batman begins, Bruce Wayne leaves for 7 years to explore the world..with no money. So it kinda makes sense that he could find his way back..he's still a ninja after all. But there's no denying that mr Nolan had to use some deus ex machina to get rid of bane haha. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
circuit bored records Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 I was kinda bummed with some of those plot gaps too..but then I remembered that in batman begins, Bruce Wayne leaves for 7 years to explore the world..with no money. So it kinda makes sense that he could find his way back..he's still a ninja after all. But there's no denying that mr Nolan had to use some deus ex machina to get rid of bane haha. Looks like we may disagree on this one. I'll use this as an excuse as a time to interject my simplified opinion on the entire series. Batman Begins is the closest we'll get to a flawless Batman movie IMO. From what I remember, after failing to exact his own revenge on his parents killer, Bruce travels to other countries in order to find himself/the tools to free Gotham. He gets himself arrested spends years in a Bhutanese prison trying to better understand the criminal mind. In prison he meets the guy who brings him to R'as Al Ghul and the League of Shadows and he gets taken in to go into training. Then he comes back to Gotham after taking the League down. None of those things really require a lot of money or resources beyond what Bruce had in his parent's trust fund. I rewatched both BB and TDK recently before seeing TDKR and BB is the best made film in the series in my opinion with the best screenwriting and least amount of plot holes. The loss of Goyer as a screenwriter impacted the last two films in both positive but mostly negative ways, however Nolan's development as a director and filmaker is an interested counterbalance to the change in screenwriting from BB. Definitely the best superhero trilogy I've seen to date. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattisr1984 Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 Those are good observations. My only major gripe with anything on first viewing: At first I hated how Bane gets blown away at the end and we don't see him at all after that. It's hard to believe after all the damage he took throughout the film that a gun blast from the batcycle into his bulletproof vest was going to do him in. Maybe he didn't die or something? But that would just be dumb. Especially if they don't show him being captured like the joker at the end of the TDK. But I'm also a firm believer and proponent of the "double tap" rule from Zombieland, the hero should always go back and pop 2 in the villain's skull at the end just to be sure. Just felt a little unresolved to me because of that. banes death didn't really bother me. It was sudden, I'll say that. Before seeing the movie, I thought maybe just maybe batman would have to break his "one rule" as joker puts it to stop bane (but I guess that depends on whether or not you feel he's already broken that rule with harvey / rachel). To be clear, I'm not talking about using a gun but rather killing him by his own hand. on the topic of plotholes, etc the only other thing that stood out to me was john blake knowing with so much certainty that bruce wayne is batman. It felt a bit forced since its so early in the film. But again, there's a lot of plot development needed and for the amount of time they had to work with I think it was done about as well as it could be. The movie could have seriously been in two parts with so much going on in it. anyway, I would have totally been fine with the ending being alfred sitting down, looks over, nods and smiles and that's it. No cut to bruce and selina. Same thing with the robin line. Just let the woman say "you should use your legal name" and leave it there. That feels more nolan-esque to me but I'm just as content with the more typical hollywood finish. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebiglebowski Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 Batman snaps the Joker's neck in the Dark Knight Returns (note "returns", I'm talking about the Frank Miller comic), which is kinda meant to be an ending to the Batman story. Some other similarities between that book and Rises. So he could have gone that route and killed him before giving up the suit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unwound Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 Very well put, I probably shouldn't be making excuses for some of those plot gaps, but they are what they are. I'm just glad that there wasn't any Lazarus pits used to help explain him healing so fast, it was just training and a good back doctor. As far as super hero trilogies go, Xmen is the only super hero trilogy that comes close..shitty third movie and all. Looks like we may disagree on this one. I'll use this as an excuse as a time to interject my simplified opinion on the entire series. Batman Begins is the closest we'll get to a flawless Batman movie IMO. From what I remember, after failing to exact his own revenge on his parents killer, Bruce travels to other countries in order to find himself/the tools to free Gotham. He gets himself arrested spends years in a Bhutanese prison trying to better understand the criminal mind. In prison he meets the guy who brings him to R'as Al Ghul and the League of Shadows and he gets taken in to go into training. Then he comes back to Gotham after taking the League down. None of those things really require a lot of money or resources beyond what Bruce had in his parent's trust fund. I rewatched both BB and TDK recently before seeing TDKR and BB is the best made film in the series in my opinion with the best screenwriting and least amount of plot holes. The loss of Goyer as a screenwriter impacted the last two films in both positive but mostly negative ways, however Nolan's development as a director and filmaker is an interested counterbalance to the change in screenwriting from BB. Definitely the best superhero trilogy I've seen to date. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
midnightcity Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xadamhudsonx Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 Saw this last Thursday in Imax. -Michael Cain should win the best supporting actor oscar for his role as Alfred. -I absolutely loved Tom Hardy's Bane. The back-breaking scene was brutal. He was so nonchalant about the whole thing. He wasn't surprised or energized by breaking Batman... it was just part of his plan. He knew all along that he would beat him. -I went in expecting to hate Ann Hathaway (cause I hate her in everything) and walked out thinking she was pretty much perfect in that role. -JGL was good, the reveal at the end was perfect and although Nolan said he won't do another Batman I can easily see someone else picking up where this left off with JGL as Robin. -The Talia reveal was great. I didn't see that coming at all. I was actually bothered by Cotillard the whole movie and didn't understand why she was cast, but after the reveal it made much more sense. -Was I the only one who was really bothered by the scenes immediately after Bane's speech at the stadium of people being torn from their homes and assaulted by crowds and such? I just have this irrational fear/aversion to scenes of riot/group violence and those scenes kind hit on that hard. Overall I think it was a great ending to the trilogy. I would've preferred not seeing Bruce and the very end in Italy though. Just Alfred nodding and that being the end of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcm1610 Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 John Blake... he was the little kid in BB, right? The one Batman makes eye contact with after Arkham breaks open? In TDKR, Blake says something about how he always knew, and I figured he was just able to make the connection because he got a good look and had a moment with Batman which stuck in his mind, so whenever Bruce Wayne was public or on the news, Blake could tell it was Batman. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcm1610 Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 Saw this last Thursday in Imax. -Michael Cain should win the best supporting actor oscar for his role as Alfred. -I absolutely loved Tom Hardy's Bane. The back-breaking scene was brutal. He was so nonchalant about the whole thing. He wasn't surprised or energized by breaking Batman... it was just part of his plan. He knew all along that he would beat him. -I went in expecting to hate Ann Hathaway (cause I hate her in everything) and walked out thinking she was pretty much perfect in that role. -JGL was good, the reveal at the end was perfect and although Nolan said he won't do another Batman I can easily see someone else picking up where this left off with JGL as Robin. -The Talia reveal was great. I didn't see that coming at all. I was actually bothered by Cotillard the whole movie and didn't understand why she was cast, but after the reveal it made much more sense. -Was I the only one who was really bothered by the scenes immediately after Bane's speech at the stadium of people being torn from their homes and assaulted by crowds and such? I just have this irrational fear/aversion to scenes of riot/group violence and those scenes kind hit on that hard. Overall I think it was a great ending to the trilogy. I would've preferred not seeing Bruce and the very end in Italy though. Just Alfred nodding and that being the end of it. My guess is that Nolan was avoiding an ambiguous ending a la Inception. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unwound Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 ^^no, Blake wasn't the same kid from bb..he just said he met Bruce Wayne before at a charity event..that would have been cool if it was the same kid though. The only part I got physically upset at was when the cage to talia and her mother had been left open and bane went in there to rescue talia..it was just depressing to see the inmates rush her like that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seamoney Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 My guess is that Nolan was avoiding an ambiguous ending a la Inception. It also serves to show Bruce and Selina are together. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattisr1984 Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 there's a valid point on selina but there's just something about there not being a cut to them that i really like. more poetic, i guess? im probably going to have to go back and see it a second time to let the whole thing really soak in but as it is - im very much satisfied with the way it finishes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xadamhudsonx Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 It also serves to show Bruce and Selina are together. I don't think it mattered that Bruce and Selina got together. We didn't need to see it. I feel that it was a little heavy handed to cut to Bruce and Selina when we already knew what Alfred would see if he were to look up, make the recognition and smile. It was as if they didn't give us credit as an audience to put together Alfred's speech earlier in the film with this final scene. With that being said, I really liked this ending. I would've hated to have to think about Alfred living out the rest of his life mourning BW's death and feeling partially responsible for not being able to stop it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seamoney Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 I don't think it mattered that Bruce and Selina got together. We didn't need to see it. But, Christopher Nolan thought it did. He clearly wants us to know that his Batman story ends with Bruce and Selina together. How is the audience supposed to know that if he doesn't show us it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
batman Posted July 31, 2012 Share Posted July 31, 2012 they should have shown alfred smile and then cut to black /nolan'd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
serum7 Posted July 31, 2012 Share Posted July 31, 2012 But, Christopher Nolan thought it did. He clearly wants us to know that his Batman story ends with Bruce and Selina together. How is the audience supposed to know that if he doesn't show us it? they should have shown alfred smile and then cut to black /nolan'd Yep, when I saw Alfred I knew what he saw and I went , but then they cut to Bruce and Selina and was all Didn't need it. xadamhudsonx 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 31, 2012 Share Posted July 31, 2012 this whole time ive agreed that all we needed was alfred looking up, smiling, and walking away. however, im thinking now that it was pretty important to show him with selina, because bruce's relationship and everything with rachel was such a crucial point of the story. showing the two together shows that bruce not only moved on beyond batman, but also beyond a broken heart as well. like i said to my friend today, one of the most amazing things about the movie was that it tied up loose ends that most of us didnt even realize existed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unwound Posted July 31, 2012 Share Posted July 31, 2012 So I just watched this again and I had a few observations about bane: How old IS this guy? He was an adult when he rescued talia..I dont know maybe I'm just crazy. How did he get that fucked up again? I mean enough to wear a mask? And last, I noticed when batman knocked one of his breathing tubes out his punches looked quicker and powerful, not because of venom, but because he was rushing to kill batman before he was incapacitated..that was fucking AWESOME. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xadamhudsonx Posted July 31, 2012 Share Posted July 31, 2012 But, Christopher Nolan thought it did. He clearly wants us to know that his Batman story ends with Bruce and Selina together. How is the audience supposed to know that if he doesn't show us it? Why would it matter? We already know Alfred's dream was to sit at that cafe, look up and see Bruce with a wife and maybe kids enjoying his new anonymous life. So seeing Alfred sit down we already knew what to expect. That Bruce survived, moved on and has created a new life for himself away from his dark past. Does it really matter that it was Selena or someone else? Who the woman was wasn't as important as that he moved on. The only reason they had Selena sitting there was because audiences can't make the inference themselves and NEED everything tied up in a nice little package to be satisfied... even if it wasn't necessary at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebiglebowski Posted July 31, 2012 Share Posted July 31, 2012 You dudes are really focusing too much on 5 seconds of a 3 hour movie. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
midnightcity Posted July 31, 2012 Share Posted July 31, 2012 You dudes are really focusing too much on 5 seconds of a 3 hour movie. you must be meeting Chris Nolan's fanbase for the first time. scottheisel 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 31, 2012 Share Posted July 31, 2012 Why would it matter? We already know Alfred's dream was to sit at that cafe, look up and see Bruce with a wife and maybe kids enjoying his new anonymous life. So seeing Alfred sit down we already knew what to expect. That Bruce survived, moved on and has created a new life for himself away from his dark past. Does it really matter that it was Selena or someone else? Who the woman was wasn't as important as that he moved on. The only reason they had Selena sitting there was because audiences can't make the inference themselves and NEED everything tied up in a nice little package to be satisfied... even if it wasn't necessary at all. because like i said much earlier in the thread, selina was ultimately the one who got bruce out of his shell. as hard as alfred tried, it wasnt until she popped in that he decided to be a person again. well.. as close to a person as one could get when they double as a superhero and a billionaire playboy. the fact that they ended up together in the end like that goes on to explain that there was way more to it for him than just finding his mothers necklace. ^^ and omg lol you guys are so funny!! what about high school english class when an entire week would be spent dissecting a single line from a poem? art is meant to be interpreted and discussed. otherwise its bad art. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dynamitekid Posted July 31, 2012 Share Posted July 31, 2012 I liked it. That is all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
000000 Posted August 1, 2012 Share Posted August 1, 2012 saw it for the second time, first time in IMAX. definitely better on the second go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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