thebiglebowski Posted October 31, 2012 Share Posted October 31, 2012 How is this profitable for these guys? Are they withdrawing the money before the paypal claims and it is actually paypal that is refunding the money (which is why we pay a couple percent for using the service)? Also, for any buyer that has established credibility on this board, whenever someone with any of the warning signs listed above wants to sell you something, tell them that you will pay on receipt of the record. There is no VC law that says that the buyer has to pay first. "You have 5 posts, signed up a week ago, and want to sell me a record? I have 2000 and hundreds of good transactions on here without a single complaint. Send me the record and I will pay when I have it in my hands." Their response will tell you a lot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebiglebowski Posted October 31, 2012 Share Posted October 31, 2012 Probably a good chance those records that were sent out were gotten by scamming sellers too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amnstypls Posted October 31, 2012 Share Posted October 31, 2012 How is this profitable for these guys? Are they withdrawing the money before the paypal claims and it is actually paypal that is refunding the money (which is why we pay a couple percent for using the service)? Also, for any buyer that has established credibility on this board, whenever someone with any of the warning signs listed above wants to sell you something, tell them that you will pay on receipt of the record. There is no VC law that says that the buyer has to pay first. "You have 5 posts, signed up a week ago, and want to sell me a record? I have 2000 and hundreds of good transactions on here without a single complaint. Send me the record and I will pay when I have it in my hands." Their response will tell you a lot. I praise you for you efforts but this just isn't practical. even if a scammer fucks you with the current system, paypal is ultimately the one who bites the bullet. if you just send a record blindly, who will you file a claim with if they don't pay? paypal claims, especially when someone scams multiple people with the same story, are an open and shut 3 week process. so it's not that big of a risk anyway Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GradedOnACurve Posted October 31, 2012 Share Posted October 31, 2012 Probably a good chance those records that were sent out were gotten by scamming sellers too. ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
imkylejackson Posted October 31, 2012 Share Posted October 31, 2012 God damn. I knew it. Sorry to everyone that got scammed. I got scammed by the same fucking guy (drewskimonster) a few weeks ago. What initially set me off was that they were both selling almost the exact same list (or a lot of items from it). When people started to get tracking info/pics/delivered records, that was comforting, but now it was just an obvious attempt to reel even more people in. What a bummer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebiglebowski Posted October 31, 2012 Share Posted October 31, 2012 ? Just a guess. Doing things like buying records that were shipped properly then claiming they were never received. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GradedOnACurve Posted October 31, 2012 Share Posted October 31, 2012 Just a guess. Doing things like buying records that were shipped properly then claiming they were never received. I'm still confused. I think me and maybe two other people actually got our records, so I didn't file a claim. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebiglebowski Posted October 31, 2012 Share Posted October 31, 2012 I praise you for you efforts but this just isn't practical. even if a scammer fucks you with the current system, paypal is ultimately the one who bites the bullet. if you just send a record blindly, who will you file a claim with if they don't pay? paypal claims, especially when someone scams multiple people with the same story, are an open and shut 3 week process. so it's not that big of a risk anyway Well the problem with this is that we are all footing the bill for it. Same thing as car insurance. Everytime you drive by an accident it costs you money. No accidents would mean no one would have to pay for insurance (and without scammers, paypal would be free..like sending as a gift). What I said is only for the case of a well-established buyer on here (lots of time, posts, feedback) and a sketchy seller you want to give the benefit of the doubt to. I wouldn't just send my records off to anyone. I trust people on here who meet certain criteria. And so far, I have not had one problem in 5 years of vinyl collecting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebiglebowski Posted October 31, 2012 Share Posted October 31, 2012 I'm still confused. I think me and maybe two other people actually got our records, so I didn't file a claim. I am speculating that those records were procured through using a buyer scam, then flipped for a seller scam to get more people in. I'd file a claim anyways if I was you. Say it never came. Do it for VC to get these fuckwads outta here. If your conscious won't let you do that, understandable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GradedOnACurve Posted October 31, 2012 Share Posted October 31, 2012 I am speculating that those records were procured through using a buyer scam, then flipped for a seller scam to get more people in. I'd file a claim anyways if I was you. Say it never came. Do it for VC to get these fuckwads outta here. If your conscious won't let you do that, understandable. I'm good. I actually got a good deal on my LP. People who actually got burned should get their money back. Hopefully these scammer assholes will disappear. One could only hope Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amnstypls Posted October 31, 2012 Share Posted October 31, 2012 Well the problem with this is that we are all footing the bill for it. Same thing as car insurance. Everytime you drive by an accident it costs you money. No accidents would mean no one would have to pay for insurance (and without scammers, paypal would be free..like sending as a gift). What I said is only for the case of a well-established buyer on here (lots of time, posts, feedback) and a sketchy seller you want to give the benefit of the doubt to. I wouldn't just send my records off to anyone. I trust people on here who meet certain criteria. And so far, I have not had one problem in 5 years of vinyl collecting. I get what you are saying, but saying that "without scammers paypal would be free" just isn't accurate man. its a tiny fraction of the transactions they do. we are footing the bill for a profitable company, just like everything else. I got scammed by drewskimonster for $23. well over 5 grand has passed through my paypal and that was my only problem. combine that with eBay fees (same company) and at they've profited probably around $700-$800 bucks off of me, even if they ate that $23. see what I mean? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebiglebowski Posted October 31, 2012 Share Posted October 31, 2012 I get what you are saying, but saying that "without scammers paypal would be free" just isn't accurate man. its a tiny fraction of the transactions they do. we are footing the bill for a profitable company, just like everything else. I got scammed by drewskimonster for $23. well over 5 grand has passed through my paypal and that was my only problem. combine that with eBay fees (same company) and at they've profited probably around $700-$800 bucks off of me, even if they ate that $23. see what I mean? I know. They make profit too. But why is it free to send money as a gift then? I figured if you waive the right to complain, they would facilitate the transaction free. There are also administrative, managerial, and probably legal implications to paypal claims that have to be paid for. More than just the actual money. I don't have access to their books. I dunno. I still think my analogy is right. Saying "I will just send money to sketchy people and file a claim later" is the equivalent of saying "I pay for full coverage on my car so I am just gonna drive recklessly without being scared of an accident", just on much different cost scales. We all pay for it (how much we don't really have the ability to estimate...unless a paypal executive shows up here). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
throck Posted October 31, 2012 Share Posted October 31, 2012 I think I was the first person to make deal when this thread went up. I got back from a long vacation, and low and behold, my records actually arrived. I too got scammed by Drewskimonster (or whatever it was), coincidently one of the records I got from jenny182 was that same album. Guess I'm just one of the first few that was supposed to post here and back the seller, glad that didn't happen. I feel you guys that are going through the dispute process right now, I doubt I'll buy much from this board for a while. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kyacrash Posted October 31, 2012 Share Posted October 31, 2012 Guess I'm just one of the first few that was supposed to post here and back the seller, glad that didn't happen. I feel you guys that are going through the dispute process right now, I doubt I'll buy much from this board for a while. dude try not to let these two occurrences prevent you from buying records on here. I've bought tons of records on here without any issues. This is mostly a great community, in fact aside from this thread and the drewski dude a few weeks ago I can only remember a couple other times people have tried to rip others off on here. I just read this whole thread for the first time and it definitely sucks this asshole is taking advantage of this board, but, tokimedo called it and it genuinely looked fishy. Not to say you can't give people the benefit of the doubt, but just like others have said, look out for some tell-tales: -new user with generic username -overly friendly and a girl (sorry but it's the truth) -conveniently selling in the buyer's favor (need money for apt deposit, wife's medical bills, lost my job, etc. etc.) -for sale list is mostly rare/wanted records -also this may seem nitpicky but it threw me off, the format the list that the OP posted was inconsistent, i.e. some titles in all CAPS, some lowercase, not necessarily in order. of course this doesn't 100% mean anything, but it can allude to copying/pasting from multiple sources. If I were to sell stuff from my own trade list, I would copy it all from the same page, and it would all look the same. -and the dude who overly had great things to say about the seller, but only had 2 posts! suspect at best don't feel bad if you got scammed, shit happens, Definitely doesn't mean you can't trust the board though. and regarding those of you who actually did get their records, it's like someone else already said, they were just sent to give the impression of legitimacy. it's no surprise that you got a good deal. Oh and NEVER send payment as a gift. I'm pretty sure it's actually against PayPal policy for the seller to even ask that. sorry to all involved, but get those paypal claims going! tokimedo 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amnstypls Posted October 31, 2012 Share Posted October 31, 2012 WOW. I just realized this. the guy, with 2 posts who "stuck up" for Jenny on page 3 or so has the same cartoon character in his avatar as thedrewskimonster did. and his username here was drewbie. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tokimedo Posted October 31, 2012 Share Posted October 31, 2012 dude try not to let these two occurrences prevent you from buying records on here. I've bought tons of records on here without any issues. This is mostly a great community, in fact aside from this thread and the drewski dude a few weeks ago I can only remember a couple other times people have tried to rip others off on here. I just read this whole thread for the first time and it definitely sucks this asshole is taking advantage of this board, but, tokimedo called it and it genuinely looked fishy. Not to say you can't give people the benefit of the doubt, but just like others have said, look out for some tell-tales: -new user with generic username -overly friendly and a girl (sorry but it's the truth) -conveniently selling in the buyer's favor (need money for apt deposit, wife's medical bills, lost my job, etc. etc.) -for sale list is mostly rare/wanted records -also this may seem nitpicky but it threw me off, the format the list that the OP posted was inconsistent, i.e. some titles in all CAPS, some lowercase, not necessarily in order. of course this doesn't 100% mean anything, but it can allude to copying/pasting from multiple sources. If I were to sell stuff from my own trade list, I would copy it all from the same page, and it would all look the same. -and the dude who overly had great things to say about the seller, but only had 2 posts! suspect at best don't feel bad if you got scammed, shit happens, Definitely doesn't mean you can't trust the board though. and regarding those of you who actually did get their records, it's like someone else already said, they were just sent to give the impression of legitimacy. it's no surprise that you got a good deal. Oh and NEVER send payment as a gift. I'm pretty sure it's actually against PayPal policy for the seller to even ask that. sorry to all involved, but get those paypal claims going! Well, shit. Couldn't have said it better my dude. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tokimedo Posted October 31, 2012 Share Posted October 31, 2012 WOW. I just realized this. the guy, with 2 posts who "stuck up" for Jenny on page 3 or so has the same cartoon character in his avatar as thedrewskimonster did. and his username here was drewbie. Holllllllly shit. Just went back and saw that. a wolf in fuckin sheeps clothing. Were just gonna have to learn from this and be more on our toes in the future. can't believe I didn't notice the avatar or username when I fuckin QUOTED him. Damn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
captainreiss Posted October 31, 2012 Share Posted October 31, 2012 Just to correct one thing, Gift payments using paypal are not free at least not from the UK. It used to be free, now the sender pays the fees, they are simply added to the checkout and the recipient gets the full amount without deductions. And the obvious that you cannot claim because you have not bought anything. So you pay more for less protection. dem555 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebiglebowski Posted October 31, 2012 Share Posted October 31, 2012 Maybe they realized it was being abused (by sending to people you do not personally know). I think it is still free in the US though. I had a class where they talked about all the ways internet payment companies used to try to be successful. Like one person in a thousand would get their credit card charged $1000 dollars and then $999 immediately refunded to their account. The idea was to avoid the credit card companies per transaction charge for sending a couple hundred tiny payments. Once it was in their system they could split it up free. I think all those other companies failed though. Paypal is king. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dem555 Posted October 31, 2012 Share Posted October 31, 2012 Just to correct one thing, Gift payments using paypal are not free at least not from the UK. It used to be free, now the sender pays the fees, they are simply added to the checkout and the recipient gets the full amount without deductions. If you send money within UK should be free, not? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dem555 Posted October 31, 2012 Share Posted October 31, 2012 WOW. I just realized this. the guy, with 2 posts who "stuck up" for Jenny on page 3 or so has the same cartoon character in his avatar as thedrewskimonster did. and his username here was drewbie. Andy=Andrew Ruziecki=Drew=DrewskiMonster=Drewbie=JennyMiller182 I think he tried to provoke a flame instead to "help" jenny's sale. More confusion, less people understand what's happening. Scruffy...the janitor 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonnyh85 Posted October 31, 2012 Share Posted October 31, 2012 No response to Paypal 'dispute' as expected, now escalated to claim. Fingers crossed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
randomfortunepa Posted October 31, 2012 Share Posted October 31, 2012 No response to Paypal 'dispute' as expected, now escalated to claim. Fingers crossed. I will do the same now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
donttchange Posted October 31, 2012 Share Posted October 31, 2012 On the us PayPal, gifting money is free only if you have a bank account attached. If using a check/debit/credit card you pay the fees rather than the seller. And my heart goes out to those scammed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
captainreiss Posted October 31, 2012 Share Posted October 31, 2012 If you send money within UK should be free, not? Whenever I send gift money it wants me to pay the fee (well it asks who will), regardless where I send this too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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