Dominic_ Posted September 12, 2015 Share Posted September 12, 2015 First off, what speakers are you looking at buying from them? I can probably refer you to someone else in the Phoenix area based on brand. If you're dead set on best buy, I've had some good run-ins with the guys at the magnolia center at Chandler Mall area. Demo some speakers, talk about how much you love them and lead them on like you're going to buy then, then bring up the question of stands or mounting. Ask what options they have, etc, then when they walk you around to the section and show you their options, say something like "these seem like they would work, but it really puts the speakers out of my budget now...might have to hold off and think a bit on how I'm going to make this work". At that point, if they have the margin to do it, they'll likely offer to make a deal on the stands. Alright, thanks. I know that there's Record High but all the speakers in there seem a little too big or too expensive. Great guys, but damn does it get expensive quickly. I was thinking Best Buy because I know that they're a reputable dealer in town and may run a sale around the holidays. To be honest I haven't done enough research to figure out what brand I'm looking for. I was just going to go to Best Buy when I had saved enough money to get some and demo a bunch of speakers and pick what I think sounds the best. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dominic_ Posted September 17, 2015 Share Posted September 17, 2015 I was at Best Buy and they said that they probably won't have any sales on speakers unless it's part of a receiver bundle :/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sdike Posted September 26, 2015 Share Posted September 26, 2015 How would the quality of a Teac TN-300 Turntable compare with that of a Project Debut Carbon DC? I like that the phono amp is included with the teac one, because I don't know any good budget pre-amps that the Project Debut Carbon would need. I saw the in earlier posts, someone mentioned the Teach cartridge or pre-amp weren't the best either. I guess I just need help seeing the pros and cons of each more. Please help Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allenh Posted September 26, 2015 Share Posted September 26, 2015 The Teac is form over function in that it's made to sell to an image so although it looks good it doesn't sound as good as it looks. Whereas the Project is made to play records which it does very well and luckily it looks as good as it sounds. Built in phono stages tend to be rubbish, in fact I don't know of one that is any good but I think the sonic drawbacks of the Teac go deeper than just the phono stage and the cartridge. Personally I wouldn't buy either but that's just personal bias Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sdike Posted September 26, 2015 Share Posted September 26, 2015 The Teac is form over function in that it's made to sell to an image so although it looks good it doesn't sound as good as it looks. Whereas the Project is made to play records which it does very well and luckily it looks as good as it sounds. Built in phono stages tend to be rubbish, in fact I don't know of one that is any good but I think the sonic drawbacks of the Teac go deeper than just the phono stage and the cartridge. Personally I wouldn't buy either but that's just personal bias I'm looking for a 400$ or less turntable and saw project debut carbon or rega seem to be the favorites! If not wither, which would you get? I'm leaning towards the Project quite a bit though and was hoping for some recommendations of integrated pre amps (is that right? project debut carbon + speakers + integrated pre amp?) thank you for your reply-I did like the Teac Cherry color, but thought Project was better Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allenh Posted September 26, 2015 Share Posted September 26, 2015 I'm looking for a 400$ or less turntable and saw project debut carbon or rega seem to be the favorites! If not wither, which would you get? I'm leaning towards the Project quite a bit though and was hoping for some recommendations of integrated pre amps (is that right? project debut carbon + speakers + integrated pre amp?) thank you for your reply-I did like the Teac Cherry color, but thought Project was better I would buy 2nd hand but that's because I have the knowledge and experience to do so, buying new I prefer the Rega Rp3 but that might be out of your price range, the RP1 always seems like a dumbed down Rega to compete with the Project. Another choice new is the Orbit with all the extras but having never heard one I can't comment as to whether it is a true competitor for the Project's and Rega's of this world. Incidentally the main reason I say 2nd hand is because tables like the RP3 haven't really changed in decades and the Project and tables like it are just copying the basics of the Rega so with that sort of table there hasn't really been anything new in a very long time. As to your amp question you need to read the start of this thread where Slinch has laid it all out for you in simple terms and I'm sure I've explained all the differences in this thread more than a few times. But as a little helper pre means front or forward stage so if you just drop the pre in that terminology you are basically there. The pre is used sometimes for the phono stage so turntable into Phono stage (pre) into integrated amplifier into passive speakers if the integrated doesn't have a phono stage built in or the turntable doesn't have one built in. But if the amplifier or turntable have a built in phono stage it can just be turntable into integrated amplifier into passive speakers There are lost of other options and permutations but that's a basic layout. Like I say a good read through these many pages will help a lot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RowBearToe Posted October 1, 2015 Share Posted October 1, 2015 I've been saving for a whole new setup for a while now and have been considering getting a debut carbon or something on that level/price range. I was just offered the opportunity to purchase either a Music Hall MMF-2.2LE or a Music Hall MMF-2.2 brand new for $300. What is the difference between LE and the regular version and which would you guys prefer? Also, would you take this offer over getting a debut carbon or similar turntable. Thanks in advance for any help/recommendations! Edit: I think LE is just the limited edition red? But should be the same functionally? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 1, 2015 Share Posted October 1, 2015 Yeah, the LE is just the standard in red. Same functionailty and everything. The music hall is pretty much a carbon, just with a different cart. RowBearToe 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redsonja Posted October 1, 2015 Share Posted October 1, 2015 I'm looking for a 400$ or less turntable and saw project debut carbon or rega seem to be the favorites! If not wither, which would you get? I'm leaning towards the Project quite a bit though and was hoping for some recommendations of integrated pre amps (is that right? project debut carbon + speakers + integrated pre amp?) thank you for your reply-I did like the Teac Cherry color, but thought Project was better Go with Allen's advice on this one! I looked at one of those Teac's because my friend was trying to big up how 'cool' they looked and yep, they do look cool, but they sound pretty crappy. If It was between a Rega and the Debut Carbon SB with the platter, at that price point I'd go with the Carbon any day and get a better cartridge (or just upgrade the Red stylus to the Blue like my friend did, it's a great sounding system not far off my RP6). In fact, talk to Raye on here too and he'll be able to tell you all about the Carbon and the Ortofon Blue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xxsilence Posted October 1, 2015 Share Posted October 1, 2015 I'm sorry but did you just say a DC with a blue stylus sounds almost as good as an RP6? That's....not right...unless your RP6 isn't set up properly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redsonja Posted October 1, 2015 Share Posted October 1, 2015 I did, and it is as far as I'm aware and I've had it for over a year now. It's not a direct side by side comparison and obviously there is an audible difference there, but to my ears and considering the price ranges involved, there's very little difference in quality though maybe more of a difference in character or voice? Edit: Oh it's the Esprit model I'm comparing to, just to be clear Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tardcore Posted October 1, 2015 Share Posted October 1, 2015 The dearth is likely wider on some tracks than others. It's often said that once you get a little outside the entry level, that things don't necessarily sound better or worse, just different--and likely more specialized. And then, of course, amp/preamp/speakers/room come into play as well. It won't matter if your table is digging up really deep, dynamic bass if the rest of the system drops the ball. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xxsilence Posted October 1, 2015 Share Posted October 1, 2015 I'm going to have to guess other system components between the two had more to do with this. Because I've heard a RP1 next to a DC (very similar), a P3 next to a RP1 (quite a big difference) and then a P3 next to an RP6 (even bigger difference). And I know not having the 24v motor on the P3 has some to do with the last step up being so big, but still. A DC or RP1 to an RP6 is a pretty huge step up. Hell, just the tonearm on a RP3 or RP6 cost more than the entire DC, even an espirit. It may not be worth the cost to some, but with the right components an RP6 should be night and day vs a DC. Like going from a Crosley to a DC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xxsilence Posted October 1, 2015 Share Posted October 1, 2015 I guess I should also ask what cart you have in your RP6. If you have the elys, it makes a little more sense. I really did not like the soundstage of either the bias or elys. But the exact is just a whole different ball game. It could just be the cart you on the RP6 you aren't as fond of? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tardcore Posted October 1, 2015 Share Posted October 1, 2015 I don't really have a exact comparison, but I used to have a Debut Carbon and then upgraded to a Marantz TT15-S1. The TT15-S1 is in the same price ballpark as an RP6. I played both through a fairly competent Marantz PM8004 with Monitor Audio RX1 speakers. The Marantz table was obviously strictly better than the Pro-ject, but it was far more obvious on some records than others. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redsonja Posted October 1, 2015 Share Posted October 1, 2015 It is the exact that's right, but it isn't that I don't like it or the way that it sounds, it's just that out of all the turntables I've heard in the under £1,000 category, which actually isn't that many I guess considering how many models are out there, I actually quite like the Carbon Esprit with the 2 Blue. There is a notable difference between the two I guess, but not that notable that it's worth paying an extra £400 for like I did, and I know it's your opinion and that's cool but in my opinion it's nothing at all like going from a Crosley to an Esprit. The Esprit is a really great turntable for the price, if I didn't have my RP6 I'd probably go with the Esprit or an RP3. Oh when I say in the under £1,000 category, I mean just new turntables and not vintage or used And yeah I agree with Tardcore I guess, as there's definitely a different resonance on certain instruments like piano and more classically bent strung stuff, but I really don't hear it on rock or metal for the majority. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allenh Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 The major factors with any turntable comparison are: Personal preference The rest of the components in the system (some have much bigger effect than others) Cartridge used The music you listen to And that order will move around a little depending on the person It's the main reason I go on about going and listening to stuff rather than buying blind from the internet and this is because over a certain level all turntables are competent but the sounds your ears are attuned to vary from person to person. We can all agree that a Crosley or similar just doesn't resolve music as well as an entry level Project or Rega but after that it gets a lot more difficult to agree, also tables like the Regas and Projects are very very similar and at points in the ranges fundamentally identical but the major difference between them is in the arms so you will get totally different reactions to other components and cartridges from them. The best advice is buy the one you like the sound of but don't close your ears to alternatives as the quest for audio nirvana is never ending that's why I've got so many bloody turntables. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redsonja Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 I'll give that an almighty amen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RowBearToe Posted October 8, 2015 Share Posted October 8, 2015 First I'd like to say thank you guys for all of your help! In reading through this thread I've learned a lot and it's really cool of all of you to help all of us who don't know what the hell we're doing haha. Secondly I'd like to ask for more help...haha I've narrowed my new setup down to this: Music Hall MMF-2.2 Yamaha A-S301 or A-S501 Wharfedale Diamond 10.1 or Polk Audio TSx 220B I've heard so many good things about the Diamond 10.1s that I'm pretty sure I'm going to with those. And it seems like the A-S301 should be enough to power them. What do you guys think about that setup? MMF-2.2 -> A-S301 -> Diamond 10.1? I kind of want the turntable to be the weak link in my system so that if I choose to upgrade the cartridge sometime down the line I can do so with the same speakers and amp, but my budget is a limitation right now for sure. Any advice, recommendations or help is appreciated, thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xxsilence Posted October 8, 2015 Share Posted October 8, 2015 Are you dead-set on new? I'd advise against the A-S301/501 choice. It's by no means a bad amplifier, but the preamp is pretty lacking and I think you'll feel the desire to upgrade it quick (speaking from experience with an A-S500). For the same price used you can get a hell of a deal on some really get integrated amps that will last much longer down your upgrade tier. I can't really speak to the MMF 2.2, never heard it. The MMF 5.1 didn't impress me very much at the price tag, I thought it was a little overpriced compared to the compeition, probably more of a $600 table new to me. I think in general you'd be better off looking used at that price range. Something like a Rega P3, <insert crazy amount of used integrated amps in the 200-500 price tier>, and your Diamond 10.1s to finish it off. Edit: also consider stepping your shit up to the RP3 with Exact combo that a board member here is listing at $650. Yeah it's more than your MMF 2.2, but you were wanting the 2.2 to be the weakest link to upgrade later - skip a step and get an incredible table/cart combo for a kick ass deal. Still can't believe I haven't seen him sell that yet...blows my mind. RowBearToe 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 8, 2015 Share Posted October 8, 2015 Edit: also consider stepping your shit up to the RP3 with Exact combo that a board member here is listing at $650. Yeah it's more than your MMF 2.2, but you were wanting the 2.2 to be the weakest link to upgrade later - skip a step and get an incredible table/cart combo for a kick ass deal. Still can't believe I haven't seen him sell that yet...blows my mind. This. I've been saving to buy it from him, but alas bills and other unexpected expenses have not made it possible. It is a hell of a deal for the price. I'm not sure I like the MHF 2.2. It looks like the debut carbon, but I'm not sure if it shares the same arm, which seems to be the strong suit of that table. The cart. on it leaves much to be desired too I've heard. RowBearToe 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tardcore Posted October 8, 2015 Share Posted October 8, 2015 The 10.1s are fine if you can get them really cheap (sub-$200 for sure). They have been around for a long time and are currently discontinued. A lot of the feedback you see online may not take that into account. I think that their replacement is the Diamond 220 ($350) and if you're considering something in that range, you might be better served by looking at something 2nd hand. RowBearToe 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RowBearToe Posted October 8, 2015 Share Posted October 8, 2015 Are you dead-set on new? I'd advise against the A-S301/501 choice. It's by no means a bad amplifier, but the preamp is pretty lacking and I think you'll feel the desire to upgrade it quick (speaking from experience with an A-S500). For the same price used you can get a hell of a deal on some really get integrated amps that will last much longer down your upgrade tier. I can't really speak to the MMF 2.2, never heard it. The MMF 5.1 didn't impress me very much at the price tag, I thought it was a little overpriced compared to the compeition, probably more of a $600 table new to me. I think in general you'd be better off looking used at that price range. Something like a Rega P3, <insert crazy amount of used integrated amps in the 200-500 price tier>, and your Diamond 10.1s to finish it off. Edit: also consider stepping your shit up to the RP3 with Exact combo that a board member here is listing at $650. Yeah it's more than your MMF 2.2, but you were wanting the 2.2 to be the weakest link to upgrade later - skip a step and get an incredible table/cart combo for a kick ass deal. Still can't believe I haven't seen him sell that yet...blows my mind. This. I've been saving to buy it from him, but alas bills and other unexpected expenses have not made it possible. It is a hell of a deal for the price. I'm not sure I like the MHF 2.2. It looks like the debut carbon, but I'm not sure if it shares the same arm, which seems to be the strong suit of that table. The cart. on it leaves much to be desired too I've heard. The 10.1s are fine if you can get them really cheap (sub-$200 for sure). They have been around for a long time and are currently discontinued. A lot of the feedback you see online may not take that into account. I think that their replacement is the Diamond 220 ($350) and if you're considering something in that range, you might be better served by looking at something 2nd hand. well shit, now you tell me...haha The MMF-2.2 is actually the only piece of this puzzle I've already purchased. I found it for almost 40% off so I went ahead and pulled the trigger. That being said, any other inputs regarding the amp and speakers? I'm definitely open to going used, but I am concerned that my lack of experience could screw me over. xxsilence, you mentioned used amps, where is the best place to find a used amp? I don't live in the city (actually closer to the middle of no where) so I don't have shops or anything near me, but is there somewhere else to look? And if I do go that route, what are some cues on condition I should look for? I know people have said buying used isn't always a good idea if you don't know what you're looking at. Thanks for your thoughts guys! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 8, 2015 Share Posted October 8, 2015 40% off makes it a good purchase. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tardcore Posted October 8, 2015 Share Posted October 8, 2015 well shit, now you tell me...haha The MMF-2.2 is actually the only piece of this puzzle I've already purchased. I found it for almost 40% off so I went ahead and pulled the trigger. That being said, any other inputs regarding the amp and speakers? I'm definitely open to going used, but I am concerned that my lack of experience could screw me over. xxsilence, you mentioned used amps, where is the best place to find a used amp? I don't live in the city (actually closer to the middle of no where) so I don't have shops or anything near me, but is there somewhere else to look? And if I do go that route, what are some cues on condition I should look for? I know people have said buying used isn't always a good idea if you don't know what you're looking at. Thanks for your thoughts guys! There's a distinction to be made between modern-used and vintage. I'm quicker to recommend a 2nd hand modern component to a novice than vintage. Audiogon is a good place to look. Their listings will skew toward the higher end but you can find solid entry-level components there too. I have personally had good luck on Ebay--look for listings that are from an audio store rather than consumers. Typically when I sell gear, I list it on Craig's List simply to avoid the cost/risk involved with shipping. The market may not be great in your area but it's worth keeping an eye out. EDIT: Quick look at Audiogon and I see a few integrateds in your range that should smoke those Yamahas. Cambridge Audio Azure 651A - $350 shipped Vincent Audio SV-121 - $399 + shipping (from Canada) Peachtree Audio Decco65 - $450 + $38 shipping (auction) RowBearToe 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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