Beginner’s Guide to Turntables & Hi–Fi *READ 1st PAGE BEFORE POSTING NEW THREADS / BASIC QUESTIONS*

[xxsilence]

Tardcore's link for the 651A is a pretty sweet deal.

 

You can also look at USAudiomart.com and CanuckAudiomart.com (assuming you find a seller who will ship to the states). The currency from Canada to US is really favorable right now so definitely worth browsing. 

[xxsilence]

http://www.canuckaudiomart.com/details/649209220-bampw-686-light-wood/

 

Just throwing some fun ones I find out there for you. I thought the 686 S2's (these aren't S2, haven't heard the S1's to compare) were a really good sounding speaker if not just over priced at the $600 new price tag or whatever. But for $190+ shipping from Canada (again, assuming they will ship to the states) seem like a pretty solid buy. 

 

Disclaimer: I may be biased, my 685 S2's are better sounding to me than many 1k - 1.5k bookshelfs or towers I've heard. 

[Tardcore]

Be aware that there's a good chance you will get slapped with an import fee if ordering from Canada.

 

Anywhoo...

 

This isn't a bad deal either

 

Marantz PM6005 (factory refurb) - $499

 

I had really good luck with a B stock turntable from Music Direct/Marantz.

[xxsilence]

You might get one through a dealer, no idea; I've bought a few things from individuals on there and never had any issue getting it shipped without import fees. Not sure specifics though maybe I just got lucky. 

[RowBearToe]

Quick look at Audiogon and I see a few integrateds in your range that should smoke those Yamahas.

 

Cambridge Audio Azure 651A - $350 shipped

Vincent Audio SV-121 - $399 + shipping (from Canada)

Peachtree Audio Decco65 - $450 + $38 shipping (auction)

 

You can also look at USAudiomart.com and CanuckAudiomart.com (assuming you find a seller who will ship to the states). The currency from Canada to US is really favorable right now so definitely worth browsing. 

 

Wow, awesome, thanks for all of the help! I will check these out for sure. Other than the ones you've posted links to here, if I'm looking for a used amp in the $300-$500 range, do you have recommendations for ones to keep my eye out for?

 

The 10.1s are fine if you can get them really cheap (sub-$200 for sure).  They have been around for a long time and are currently discontinued.  A lot of the feedback you see online may not take that into account. 

 

I think that their replacement is the Diamond 220 ($350) and if you're considering something in that range, you might be better served by looking at something 2nd hand.

 

Looking in the $300 range for speakers, again, do you have any recommendations for used or new ones I should consider if not the Diamond 10.1s?

[allenh]

That Vincent integrated looks a good buy and a bit more interesting than the average as well but I'm guessing shipping might be expensive

[RowBearToe]

O and I'd definitely prefer an amp with a phono input so I don't have to get a pre amp (space restraints).

[allenh]

O and I'd definitely prefer an amp with a phono input so I don't have to get a pre amp (space restraints).

 

That sort of restricts you then, generally anything new with a built in phono stage will be average at best or have a poor phono stage and that's more true with 2nd hand amps you would be buying that are within the last 10 or 15 years. Older than that is a different story but then you are getting into the realms of stuff that might need a bit of work.

 

There are exceptions of course but these will be lots of money so new or nearly new with the budget you have you are looking at the bottom of the range mass produced Japanese major manufacturer stuff if it has a built in phono stage

 

If you were in the UK it would be easy and I would say an Audiolab 8000A or a Musical Fidelity B1 but that side of the Atlantic they will be big bucks and probably about 2 or 3 times what you want to spend and 4 or 5 times what you could get them for here.

[Tardcore]

Looking in the $300 range for speakers, again, do you have any recommendations for used or new ones I should consider if not the Diamond 10.1s?

 

You should take a look at the Monitor Audio RX1s for sale here.  $350 shipped.  I have owned both the Diamond 10.1s and a pair of RX1s and much preferred the RX1s.

[Sidney Crosley]

Wow, awesome, thanks for all of the help! I will check these out for sure. Other than the ones you've posted links to here, if I'm looking for a used amp in the $300-$500 range, do you have recommendations for ones to keep my eye out for?

 

 

Looking in the $300 range for speakers, again, do you have any recommendations for used or new ones I should consider if not the Diamond 10.1s?

 

 

I bought a second-hand new amp, a NAD C326BEE earlier this year, and while I had only listened to a small amount of amps, and was replacing a lousy Kenwood AV receiver, I was immediately quite happy with it. I got it for $300 CAD ($250USD at the time), which was a pretty good deal, and it works quite well with Wharfedale 10.1s (also bought second-hand for about $250 CAD/$200USD). NAD is very popular in Canada in part because the company is now based in Canada, but it has a pretty good track record. It also meant I could listen (I compared the C316BEE and the C326BEE with 10.1s and was surprised that I could notice a nice difference). The C326BEE is a very solid unit (though no phono preamp).

 

When I was looking for components to upgrade, I looked a lot at old Marantz amps, and older speakers, but as has been said, it's a bit harder to tell what condition the equipment was kept in (unless you buy from a dealer). The three or four things I've bought from Canuck Audio Mart have been from people who had been given positive feedback (although obviously there is still a risk). My experiences have been amazingly positive so far - I've had a few pieces mailed to me, and picked up a few in person.  Buying from Canada with the US's strong dollar compared to the US is never a bad idea, but fair warning, Canada Post rates, are pretty absurd. Buying an amp or speakers will be quite heavy, and half the price would be shipping.

 

If you're in the states, you will definitely have way more options for second-hand newer stuff, as shipping is not as crazy as it is in Canada, and you have 10x the population to potentially buy from; not to mention as others have said, Music Direct's B Stock.

 

 

Another idea to consider: the PS Audio Sprout - it's a relatively small and powerful integrated amp with phono preamp, DAC, headphone amp, and another analog input. Runs about $800 regular, but it has been on Massdrop a few times this year for $500. I wonder if you can find it second hand for cheaper than that?

[RowBearToe]

Thanks for the replies guys!

I knew a tt with a built it preamp usually meant it was shitty, but I didn't realize the same went for amps as well. So a pre-amp is the way to go it sounds like?

I will definitely check out the RX1's, thanks for the suggestion!

I'll definitely check out the canuck audio mart and keep my eye out for a PS audio sprout on the cheap.

Thanks again for the feedback! Looks like I've got a lot more research to do haha

[RowBearToe]

Oh, and if I have the mmf2.2 and I'm looking in the $300-500 range for an amp and $300 range for speakers, what range should I be looking at for a preamp? Any suggestions there?

[Guest]

What's everyone's opinions on the Harman/Kardon T-60 table? The local vintage shop has a fully serviced one for $325. I really like the look of it, and it's floating suspension, which is a plus.

[allenh]

Oh, and if I have the mmf2.2 and I'm looking in the $300-500 range for an amp and $300 range for speakers, what range should I be looking at for a preamp? Any suggestions there?

 

Cambridge audio 551 or 651 or Musical Fidelity V90-LPS but someone your side of the Atlantic will have some other suggestions I'm sure

[allenh]

What's everyone's opinions on the Harman/Kardon T-60 table? The local vintage shop has a fully serviced one for $325. I really like the look of it, and it's floating suspension, which is a plus.

 

I've never heard or owned one so you can feel more comfortable completely ignoring what I'm going to say

 

My instinct is that it's expensive price wise and I think you could do better for the money, it looks very similar to a lot of other mid range Japanese tables of the time and the arm certainly looks familiar. there's  the usual use of a lot of plastic in the construction in a lot of the arm components and I expect a lot of it's components are average. It's suspension I expect is in it's feet like a Dual or a lot of other of this style of table rather than a proper 3 point floating sub chassis.

 

The big problem for me with most of these tables is that they have only now got a real value in the 2nd coming of vinyl. Tables like the Thorens TD160, AR's and higher up the range Japanese tables always had a value when vinyl wasn't fashionable for a reason but tables like this didn't so much.

 

A quick look on ebay US tells me $330 could have bought you a boxed Thorens TD160 and this Luxman for no money is a very similar if not better table for a lot less money

 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Luxman-PX-99-Semi-Automatic-Turntable-/171914848817?hash=item2806ec6a31&nma=true&si=ceGULCjBbu9aoshOrk%252FijYwTmoo%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557

 

Like I say I could be absolutely wrong and it could sound amazing but I doubt it.

 

Edit

 

I've just found some pictures of the inside of one and it does have proper 3 point suspension and there are some good reports on them and I've been wrong before so I'd like to hear one but my instinct still is that's it's expensive compared to what $320 could buy you and I'd probably still have bought that Luxman as a project in preference.

 

Also found this one that might be a good buy as a project for a lot less money

 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/VTG-Harman-Kardon-T60C-Floating-Suspension-Belt-Driven-Turntable-Working-/272008299336?hash=item3f54f54348

[Guest]

Thanks for the long response Allen. I thought that price was a bit high too. The shop is close by, so I might go audition it today just to see what I think of it. In the mean time, will watch that one you listed from ebay, in hope of getting lucky.

 

Those Thorens 160's are really nice, and I'd love one, but I never get that lucky on the price. Every time I come across an auction or one locally, it's going for a lot more.

[allenh]

I'd never seen or heard of one so it piqued my interest a bit. I've been doing a bit more research and I think you could be on to something but more at a gamble price like the one on ebay, it is suspended and looks to be quite well made although the plinth is a bit flimsy looking and the arm is actually a low mass Ito with a carbon arm tube although the mount and headshell are plastic.

 

Let me know what you think when you go and listen to it, I did find one that sold on ebay over here and it didn't make a lot of money so I will keep my eye out for one as another project. I see a nice hardwood plinth and an aluminium arm mount

[Guest]

I imagine he is charging a bit more, since it is fully serviced already and there are not very many vintage audio shops left in the area. 

 

It looks like LPGear has a replacement headshell that fits the table too. I know some of those older straight arm tables had their own headshells.

 

http://www.lpgear.com/product/PTS008.html

[allenh]

There is a German place that stocks them as well in 3 different lengths. There were quite a few 80's decks that had similar arms although some were a bit on the cheap side but as that ones an Ito you can expect the bearings were very good when it was new.

 

There was also also a direct drive ADC that uses a similar style Jelco version of that arm although it is badged as an ADC and that was always a 2nd hand bargain of a turntable but sadly they tended to be bought to be broken up for the arm when people worked out what they were which I always thought was sad plus it put the price up.

[Guest]

I just got back from demoing it. It sounded really good. The suspension on it was really nice, and his was super clean. The headshell was pretty plasticy, and so was the plinth. The ITO tonearm seemed pretty nice, but like you said it is really low mass and compliant. I also really like the stabilizer it came it, with was quite heavy and did a good job. I am guessing it weight around 1 - 1.5 lbs. I'll probably try my luck with that one on ebay, since I do feel like $325 is a bit steep for the hunk of plastic it is. As you said, be a good learning experience in fixing it up too.

 

Edit: Was telling my dad about it, and he said he'd go half on the local one for a Christmas present for me, so will probably go that route. It'll be about the same out of my pocket, but already serviced.

 

Edit 2: Any suggestions on carts that would work well with the arm? It has some AT I've never seen on it, it was green and the model started with a 2 (was covered by the headshell, and the employee had no clue what the model was). I've always want to try Grado, but since it seems to hum with my current table I've avoided them. Maybe a green, and an upgrade to the 8MZ stylus down the line if I like it? I might toss the AT120E on it for now, but I might sell it will my current table too.

[aviolentworld]

There's a distinction to be made between modern-used and vintage.  I'm quicker to recommend a 2nd hand modern component to a novice than vintage.  Audiogon is a good place to look.  Their listings will skew toward the higher end but you can find solid entry-level components there too.  I have personally had good luck on Ebay--look for listings that are from an audio store rather than consumers.

 

Typically when I sell gear, I list it on Craig's List simply to avoid the cost/risk involved with shipping.  The market may not be great in your area but it's worth keeping an eye out.

 

EDIT:

 

Quick look at Audiogon and I see a few integrateds in your range that should smoke those Yamahas.

 

Cambridge Audio Azure 651A - $350 shipped

Vincent Audio SV-121 - $399 + shipping (from Canada)

Peachtree Audio Decco65 - $450 + $38 shipping (auction)

damn i have been searching that site all wrong.  i would always type integrated amps in the search box.  i just searched again and couldn't find the links you provided so after browsing i noticed all the keywords on the bottom left of the page.  that cambridge is really enticing.  i have never experienced a phono preamp/integrated combo and kinda want to go that way.

[allenh]

I just got back from demoing it. It sounded really good. The suspension on it was really nice, and his was super clean. The headshell was pretty plasticy, and so was the plinth. The ITO tonearm seemed pretty nice, but like you said it is really low mass and compliant. I also really like the stabilizer it came it, with was quite heavy and did a good job. I am guessing it weight around 1 - 1.5 lbs. I'll probably try my luck with that one on ebay, since I do feel like $325 is a bit steep for the hunk of plastic it is. As you said, be a good learning experience in fixing it up too.

 

Edit: Was telling my dad about it, and he said he'd go half on the local one for a Christmas present for me, so will probably go that route. It'll be about the same out of my pocket, but already serviced.

 

Edit 2: Any suggestions on carts that would work well with the arm? It has some AT I've never seen on it, it was green and the model started with a 2 (was covered by the headshell, and the employee had no clue what the model was). I've always want to try Grado, but since it seems to hum with my current table I've avoided them. Maybe a green, and an upgrade to the 8MZ stylus down the line if I like it? I might toss the AT120E on it for now, but I might sell it will my current table too.

 

Well at least you get one you know is right and can always take back if there is a problem, Do you have to wait until Christmas before you can play with it though?

 

Yes a Grado would be a good choice, I've got an 8MZ stylus in one of my Grado bodies and it's a very cheap way to a very nice cartridge. There will be something in the AT range that will work and it would be worth finding out what is fitted in it now and look out for a NOS stylus for it. Another one that springs to mind is a Sumiko pearl.

[Guest]

I don't have to wait until Christmas. Every year I tell my parents I don't want anything, so they do something like that.

 

I browsed through all the AT carts on Vinylengine, and I think it is probably a AT-2013 E. 

[allenh]

Ok the E is for elliptical and that stylus carrier is common to quite a few bodies and types. You can get genuine new styli for it for around $35

[Guest]

It looks like it can be upgraded to a shibata stylus too.

 

http://www.lpgear.com/product/ATS12S.html

 

I still think I'm going to go with a Grado, or use my 120E until then. I really like the 120E's tracing abilites, even if it is a bit bright, and the ability to upgrade to the 440mla/b stylus. Grado's have just always been something I read about, but have not been able to use. I suppose I can buy a few other headshells, since they are cheap and mount all the different ones I want and switch them out when I feel like it. The Denon DL110 is another one I'd like to hear.