thebiglebowski Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 everything is up in the air.... either the dude cracks pitching under NYC scrutiny... or else he becomes even nastier when he can go after hitters because he has an elite offense behind him thats gonna average 4 runs a game so he doesn't have to worry about losing the game if he gives up one run.... any word on that other guy the yanks got? "As part of the trade, the Yankees also sent 24-year-old pitcher Hector Noesi to Seattle for 19-year-old righty Jose Campos." I read a better article last night but can't seem to find it. They basically said something along the lines of the Noesi is a nice, close to ready for the majors but not top level prospect where Campos is a project with lots of potential (I think it said 2.3 ERA last year), but still in A ball. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jerseydave77 Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 I stand by my feelings. Montero and Pineda both still amount to prospects. I always err on the side of the philosophy that a prospect hitter is more likely to pan out than a prospect pitcher. Beyond this, there is a value to home grown talent that is not well considered. Yankees fans will always love a Jeter, Cano or Rivera more than an A-Rod or Texeira because they came up in the organization. There is a frustration with fans that we want to see the guy that I drove to see play with the Trenton Thunder now play in the Bronx. I'm sorry but Montero was a fan favorite already and no one wanted to see him go. We followed his development for three years and wanted him in pinstripes. If he went in a deal for Cliff Lee, no one would have complained but a prospect arm with 170 MLB Innings (even if they are overall good ones) isn't the same thing. You are correct that his overall splits are solid but when you say the sample size isn't big enough I agree. I wouldn't have given up on Montero for a promising arm like Pineda. My opinion and at the point I sure hope I'm wrong because the guy in pinstripes is who I'm cheering for. Also, why the hell did they sign Kuroda if they planned on this trade? Their staff wasn't that weak. What are they doing with Burnett? (I always hated that signing, I'm not new to that bandwagon) Anyway, I hope you're right. If Pineda is the real deal the Yanks just added a 22 year old stud to go along with Nova and Hughes who are both 25. I certainly hope Hughes can stay healthy this year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flood Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 im happy with the deal behind sabathia we have 3 young good arms that aren't making much money, a little insurance with Kuroda for a year that will stop them from rushing the killer b's... and innings eaters with burnett and garcia... its a solid rotation that could be around for awhile... i was a big jesus fan as well... but at the same time he doesnt have a position.. he's not the catcher romine is, and we have an all star first baseman already, and you cant waste the DH spot on a 22 year old. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
retrospectacle Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 i was a big jesus fan as well... but at the same time he doesnt have a position.. he's not the catcher romine is, and we have an all star first baseman already, and you cant waste the DH spot on a 22 year old. Hypothetically speaking, don't you think if Jesus stayed in pinstripes he would of ended up in right field at some point? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jerseydave77 Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 My hunch: this move reflects that Montero isn't seen as anything more than a DH and that the DH slot needs to be reserved for A-Rod. I don't see him at 3rd for the long haul and Tex is ingrained at 1st. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jerseydave77 Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 And FYI - most folks are really high on this trade. I'll happily be wrong here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
selfreliable Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 My hunch: this move reflects that Montero isn't seen as anything more than a DH and that the DH slot needs to be reserved for A-Rod. I don't see him at 3rd for the long haul and Tex is ingrained at 1st. My thoughts exactly on this. Many people are considering this a steal, paying much less than market value of what other teams paid for young starters this offseason. Granted as you said he has a small sample size, but they moved a prospect that they had no use for anymore. This is what I love about baseball. It is the only sport where they can trade a top tier talent just because they dont have a spot for them. All other major sports they feel the need to hold onto every young star and ship out other people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebiglebowski Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 I've looked at this trade and Pineda's 2nd half numbers are plain bad. My post was directed at this statement only. Home grown vs. bought and hitter vs. pitcher arguments are definitely valid and welcomed, but his numbers were not "plain bad". "Mediocre" or something like "puzzling" I wouldn't have argued against. Would be nice if the Tigers made one big splash this offseason! We have dumped a lot of bad contracts over the last two years or so (Bonderman, Guillen, Ordonez, Willis, Robertson, probably a couple more I can't remember offhand). The Victor signing was nice, but they should have been able to add another top free agent this year without the payroll going up. I think they just decided to reduce the payroll number, though. Bummer. I think Cesespedes (I'm sure I spelled that wrong) is the only shot we have left and I don't really even know if I want him at the prices being thrown around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebiglebowski Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 How about the Royals? Over/Under on their position in the central? They definitely have a shot at 3rd (ahead of the Indians and Twins). If all their prospects stepped up and to quality players/studs (which I know is a big if and is not likely to happen, but still, if...) they could win the division. They look to have a nice 3-4 year window ahead of them (before all their players leave and they enter rebuilding mode again). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travis Posted January 16, 2012 Author Share Posted January 16, 2012 I read a rumor that said the Rangers could afford Darvish and Fielder. Not sure I believe that plus they have about 5 other players they are trying to get extensions done with. They definitely wont be able to sign both those guys and have money left to extend hardly any of those other guys (Hamilton, Kinsler, Napoli, Lewis...) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
selfreliable Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 Didnt Texas get a new tv deal or have a new one in the works? I can see them totally letting Lewis go in order to save money for the others. If they land both Yu and Prince, then the Angels will be shitting bricks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travis Posted January 16, 2012 Author Share Posted January 16, 2012 Didnt Texas get a new tv deal or have a new one in the works? I can see them totally letting Lewis go in order to save money for the others. If they land both Yu and Prince, then the Angels will be shitting bricks. haha Well yea. I dunno, Im not sold on Darvish yet. Not saying he will be a bust but look at DiceK now. These Japanese pitchers havent exactly come over here and dominated. The only dominate Japanese player I can think of is Ichiro and he's not a pitcher. Fielder is going to get $160M+ Darvish is looking to get about $50-$60M Hamilton is going to get a huge paycheck, probably $100M+ Kinsler could get something in the $60M+ range Napoli could get something in the $40+ range. I agree they will obviously let Lewis go out of all those other players but thats a lot of money right there to extend just 3 guys and sign 2 new ones. I just hope Fielder stays in the NL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
selfreliable Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 Im not sold on Darvish getting that much yet. Especially after the DiceK debacle, I think teams will be more cautious on what they spend on the actual contract. Maybe a 4 year deal around 40 million. I cant imagine them going too long on the years incase it doesnt pan out they dont wanna be stuck paying Halladay money on a Burnett talent. Its what? 48 more hours till it needs to be finalized? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travis Posted January 16, 2012 Author Share Posted January 16, 2012 Yea the deadline is sometime on Wednesday I beleive. Apparently they are prepared to give him DiceK money and the hold up with the signing is the amount of years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebiglebowski Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 Didnt Texas get a new tv deal or have a new one in the works? I can see them totally letting Lewis go in order to save money for the others. If they land both Yu and Prince, then the Angels will be shitting bricks. haha Well yea. I dunno, Im not sold on Darvish yet. Not saying he will be a bust but look at DiceK now. These Japanese pitchers havent exactly come over here and dominated. The only dominate Japanese player I can think of is Ichiro and he's not a pitcher. Fielder is going to get $160M+ Darvish is looking to get about $50-$60M Hamilton is going to get a huge paycheck, probably $100M+ Kinsler could get something in the $60M+ range Napoli could get something in the $40+ range. I agree they will obviously let Lewis go out of all those other players but thats a lot of money right there to extend just 3 guys and sign 2 new ones. I just hope Fielder stays in the NL What do you guys think Colby Lewis is worth? I doubt he is going to get more than a couple mil a year. He's an average 3rd to 4th pitcher on most teams. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebiglebowski Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 David Price at 1 year, 4.5 mil seems like a GIANT bargain for the Rays. Hamels got $15 mil! They are pretty close to equal in my book. Only thing I can think of is that Price want's to stay in TB so he gave a discount on 1 year deal, thinking that he can improve on last year's stats and get a monster contract next year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
selfreliable Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 David Price at 1 year, 4.5 mil seems like a GIANT bargain for the Rays. Hamels got $15 mil! They are pretty close to equal in my book.Only thing I can think of is that Price want's to stay in TB so he gave a discount on 1 year deal, thinking that he can improve on last year's stats and get a monster contract next year. Experience is the difference. Hamels has done it longer at this level. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebiglebowski Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 David Price at 1 year, 4.5 mil seems like a GIANT bargain for the Rays. Hamels got $15 mil! They are pretty close to equal in my book.Only thing I can think of is that Price want's to stay in TB so he gave a discount on 1 year deal, thinking that he can improve on last year's stats and get a monster contract next year. Experience is the difference. Hamels has done it longer at this level. Price has a higher ceiling (#1 overall pick), less injury risk (Hamels manages to get up around 200 innings every year but he seems to miss a couple starts and have nagging injuries often), and Price has put up essentially the same numbers in not only the AL, but the AL east. I think given the choice of the two, independent of salary, most teams would take Price. Not trying to say Hamels isn't a stud, but would you rather have 3 David Prices at $15 mil or 1 Cole Hamels? It's a redundant question. Hamels went for market value. Rays got an absolute steal of a contract. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
selfreliable Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 No team in that situation would pay 10 million for him. So much of arbitration is decided on past contracts for players of similar age and talent. Price knew he wouldnt get a much better deal going before the judge so he took offer from Tampa. He is a pitcher with barely 3 years of service trying to be compared to one with 6 solid years of service and one who is a WS MVP. They dont look into how the market has changed, just what previous talents got at the same skill and age level. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebiglebowski Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 No team in that situation would pay 10 million for him. So much of arbitration is decided on past contracts for players of similar age and talent. Price knew he wouldnt get a much better deal going before the judge so he took offer from Tampa. He is a pitcher with barely 3 years of service trying to be compared to one with 6 solid years of service and one who is a WS MVP. They dont look into how the market has changed, just what previous talents got at the same skill and age level. Yeah I guess I didnt look up comparable arbitration cases. Still think he is being ridiculously underpaid. His last two years were definitely worth $10 mil. Will get a giant contract next year (will be a free agent, right?) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebiglebowski Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 Victor Martinez blows out ACL in offseason workout. FUCK!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mclz Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 Wow, last week I heard rumors that Yankees were thinking about Damon and Matsui coming back for a DH role, but I didn't believe them. Now it seems that the Matsui deal is some possible serious shit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
selfreliable Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 That is a huge loss for the Tigers season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebiglebowski Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 That is a huge loss for the Tigers season. I expect them to sign someone like Carlos Pena or Vlad Guerrero to help get them through the year. Or they can make Delmon Young a DH and get a speedy outfielder to hit leadoff (if there is anyone left, only one that comes to mind is Juan Pierre). They can probably get through this. Definitely going to be a battle for the Central though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
selfreliable Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 Im not sure if there are any .330 hitters that can score 100 runs really left on the market. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.