kurtmanner Posted February 13, 2008 Share Posted February 13, 2008 I'm not even involved...until now. I watched this whole thing go down and there was one thing missing: E-MAILS. While I didn't go through this personally, and maybe a whole bunch of people are lying (right? haha) and there WAS contact outside of myspace, I will stand corrected. Regardless, I'm opening my mouth on this. Does myspace cover ground for most people these days? Yes. I certainly don't think it's safe to put all your eggs in that one basket, though. I'm sorry, but for all things internet (communication, purchasing, selling, etc.) e-mail is still the universal tie. If you ordered it online, you have e-mail. Plain and simple. All contact should be via e-mail for purchasers. I saw no excuse for how people were treated as costumers, either. Were people pushy? Yup, but it's like giving someone you don't know $20 to buy you groceries. What happens when they haven't come back 6 hours later? You figure they're honest and don't try to get your money back or figure out what the deal is? I know there was a reputation on the line, and maybe that makes it slightly different, but something makes me feel like I'd have been sending some almost rudely inquisitive e-mails before this had all been figured out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
faith Posted February 13, 2008 Share Posted February 13, 2008 I didn't buy it and I don't even care about the whole issue From the message quoted in the first post of this thread you can tell how much of a fucking jerk he is. Just read the last sentence Dude might want to be nicer to his fans and to the collectors that bought HIS release. Just saying Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kirbypuckett Posted February 13, 2008 Share Posted February 13, 2008 Where's our covers from Loki?!? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest nickman Posted February 13, 2008 Share Posted February 13, 2008 blah blah who cares. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xxfesterxx Posted February 13, 2008 Share Posted February 13, 2008 Where's our covers from Loki?!? lol was wondering the same thing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dante3000 Posted February 13, 2008 Share Posted February 13, 2008 I'm just wondering how he still has 300 or so copies left and plans to move em. I imagine people are less apt to pick them up now as the initial rush are over and with Heavens being mostly inactive I don't see them picking up a ton of new fans. I just wonder if he's hoping on Alkaline Trio's new album moving the rest of these. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forgeagain Posted February 13, 2008 Share Posted February 13, 2008 It was really $17 for an LP in a DJ sleeve? And he pressed 1000 of them? So that's what, at least $10 profit per record, figuring the cost of pressing was probably $3-4 and a couple bucks for shipping and $0 for artwork. So he stands to make $10,000 from this record, and it's not worth 45 minutes of his time to type that up? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dante3000 Posted February 13, 2008 Share Posted February 13, 2008 It was really $17 for an LP in a DJ sleeve? And he pressed 1000 of them? So that's what, at least $10 profit per record, figuring the cost of pressing was probably $3-4 and a couple bucks for shipping and $0 for artwork. So he stands to make $10,000 from this record, and it's not worth 45 minutes of his time to type that up? 1,100 copies of this record. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacobe Posted February 13, 2008 Share Posted February 13, 2008 I kind of wonder what his wholesale rate was on this when he sold them to Virgil. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottheisel Posted February 13, 2008 Author Share Posted February 13, 2008 I kind of wonder what his wholesale rate was on this when he sold them to Virgil. I originally estimated $7/copy, and Virgil later told me it was more than that. For anyone wondering why so many people got upset about the way this release was handled, I'm cutting-and-pasting my analysis from a few months ago below: [*:hw5qw41p]July 20 - preorders go up through the Number Nine Sounds myspace page (which no longer exists) for $15.99ppd, with promises of the record being "limited to 1000" and "hand-numbered." A release date of Aug. 21 is set by the label. After payment is made by myself and many other people, ZERO COMMUNICATION is received from N9S/Joe Steinbrick. No order confirmation, no receipt, no anything.[*:hw5qw41p]August 21 - no records.[*:hw5qw41p]August 24 - jhulud emails N9S asking where the records are; N9S says the record will be delayed a few weeks due to an error at the pressing plant.[*:hw5qw41p]September 7 - Still no records. N9S deletes the original blog entry about the release of the record and simply posts that the records will be delayed three more weeks. At this point, it is impossible to get a refund via Paypal for anyone who ordered right when the record was made available, as that has to happen within 45 days of the transaction.[*:hw5qw41p]September 14 - Joe sends out a bulletin on the N9S account and says he's going to delete the N9S MySpace page, but not before telling everyone he's "hoping" for an Oct. 1 ship date and saying "this is your last chance to ask questions through this page." He also posts the rejected Heavens test pressings on eBay at this time.[*:hw5qw41p]September 16 - N9S MySpace is deleted, thereby making it impossible to ask him any questions.[*:hw5qw41p]September 18 - the test presses sell for close to $200 total. Still, no one has their records. [*:hw5qw41p]October 29 - nearly six weeks after his last communication, Joe posts something on the Heavens myspace blog apologizing for the delay. He also says that he will receive the records on Nov. 2 and begin shipping immediately.[*:hw5qw41p]November 1 - Joe confirms he has the records and will start shipping them at a rate of "100 per day" after numbering and stickering them all (keep in mind, this is the first mention of a "sticker" anywhere, and up to this point there has been zero discussion of the record's packaging).[*:hw5qw41p]November 2 - Joe launches a bullshit contest to get people to promote the record's release instead of packaging them up and mailing them out.[*:hw5qw41p]November 6 - Virgil is able to obtain 100 copies of the record from Joe and sells them for a CHEAPER PRICE. Of course, those of us who faithfully pre-ordered get fucked. Also, still no records.[*:hw5qw41p]November 16 - It's discovered that Joe is selling two more test presses on eBay (which he makes another $100 from). Still no records.[*:hw5qw41p]November 19 - Virgil says Joe has promised him 100 more copies of the album. Still no records.[*:hw5qw41p]November 24 - FINALLY, someone receives their record (kyle), over four months after pre-ordering with virtually no public communication from the seller in between (and zero seller-to-buyer communication, either). This is the first time anyone hears about the minimal packaging.[*:hw5qw41p]November 28 - Joe calls Virgil and tells him that he is just now shipping the 200 copies Virgil has already sold on his behalf, even though Joe has had them in hand for nearly a month; Virgil won't be able to start shipping them until approximately next Monday when they arrive. This makes Virgil/Vinyl Collective look like an unreputable company, as he's already taken money from 200 people but has no product to sell them. Joe himself admitted he had sold 500 of the 1000 copies in his Oct. 29 update, meaning he had pulled in approximately $8000 from orders (more if they were international). I'll assume Virgil paid $7 wholesale per copy, meaning Joe's made another $1400 off those. Factor in the $300 he's made off test pressings, and he's pocketed almost $9000 BEFORE EVER SENDING A RECORD OUT. The total is most likely larger, given as how we don't know how many he's sold between Oct. 29 and now through the Heavens myspace (and it's possible Virgil paid more wholesale, too). I don't know where he pressed the record, but Pirates Press currently offers a quote of $2200 for 1000 LPs (virgin vinyl/full sleeves), so one would think he paid less since the product is of a lesser quality (we'll just say $2000 flat). Obviously "packaging" costs were minimal (what's a box Sharpies cost nowadays, $3.29?) and considering how few people have received their records thus far, I bet he's shipping Media Mail, meaning if all 500 copies he sold himself thus far are being shipped in the U.S., that's only $1500 (I don't know how much packing material costs, unfortunately; I always just use recycled mailers when I send stuff out). So based on my numbers, he's looking at $3500-4000 in expenses, and a MINIMUM of $9000 pulled in, most likely more. In closing, FTG (Fuck This Guy). If you don't think those of us who paid for this record, especially early on in the process, have reason to be upset, then I don't know how else to convince you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
riddle350 Posted February 13, 2008 Share Posted February 13, 2008 It makes me warm and fuzzy inside when Scott manhandles people with his logic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottheisel Posted February 13, 2008 Author Share Posted February 13, 2008 It makes me warm and fuzzy inside when Scott manhandles people with his logic. I'm glad Justin/forgeagain chimed in, because he's obviously put out records before and knows the actual expenses, where I just sort of winged it in that analysis. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skumbucket Posted February 13, 2008 Share Posted February 13, 2008 Were people pushy? Yup, but it's like giving someone you don't know $20 to buy you groceries. What happens when they haven't come back 6 hours later? You figure they're honest and don't try to get your money back or figure out what the deal is? I know there was a reputation on the line, and maybe that makes it slightly different, but something makes me feel like I'd have been sending some almost rudely inquisitive e-mails before this had all been figured out. nailed it! also, i know three people who have a myspace. it doesn't work for everyone, especially a lot of people above a certain age. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest vito Posted February 13, 2008 Share Posted February 13, 2008 It makes me warm and fuzzy inside when Scott manhandles people with his logic. I'm glad Justin/forgeagain chimed in, because he's obviously put out records before and knows the actual expenses, where I just sort of winged it in that analysis. totally. it's good to hear that someone who actually runs a label thinks this was bullshit too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruins4ever Posted February 13, 2008 Share Posted February 13, 2008 Can someone post the cover art to these things? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akross Posted February 13, 2008 Share Posted February 13, 2008 ^ Blank DJ sleeves with a sticker Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacobe Posted February 13, 2008 Share Posted February 13, 2008 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruins4ever Posted February 13, 2008 Share Posted February 13, 2008 ^ Seriously? So its a plain white cover with the side opening and a sticker? That's it? Holy shit. Fuck that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruins4ever Posted February 13, 2008 Share Posted February 13, 2008 Wow, fuck these guys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacobe Posted February 13, 2008 Share Posted February 13, 2008 also, I just checked and I have 52, 53,54....2 extras because 2 friends bailed on wanting them after seeing them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest vito Posted February 14, 2008 Share Posted February 14, 2008 in my opinion, the blank sleeve isn't horrible. it's just that we should have been charged $12 a pop if that was the case. not $18 or whatever it was like in my case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
faith Posted February 14, 2008 Share Posted February 14, 2008 $12 is still overly expensive for nothing Fat charges $8 per single LP, and you get kickass artwork most of the time as well as inserts Flood, who run a very small label, charges no more than $10 per LP and you get kickass artwork and most of the time numbered copies! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jhulud Posted February 14, 2008 Share Posted February 14, 2008 I think it's time that we move on past this and worry about other shit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eroc Posted February 14, 2008 Share Posted February 14, 2008 no offense to those that did, but boy am i glad i never ordered one. i'm sorry you dudes had to go through all that! that just sounds awful Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boizee Posted February 14, 2008 Share Posted February 14, 2008 I think it's time that we move on past this and worry about other shit. LIKE WHAT??? BLOOOODDD PACCTTT 4EVA!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.