kirbypuckett Posted October 23, 2007 Author Share Posted October 23, 2007 You shouldn't refer to downloading music as theft. There's a bit of a gray area with the term and I could defend it all day. Theft implies that someone was going to purchase the product, not everyone downloads music instead of purchasing it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steventangent Posted October 23, 2007 Share Posted October 23, 2007 Everything I ever downloaded off Oink that wasn't b-sides or replacing something I own that was scratched was to review something that I got sent but couldn't play due to copyright restriction pains in the ass. Go figure. Yeah. The irony of all this is that I am totally anti-DRM and anti-industry. I'm not trying to stand here with the old-guard of the industry and the shitty old way of doing things. Frankly, I don't give a fuck if Sony and Best Buy lose their bottom line due to downloaders. It's all the other people that get hurt that I am concerned about. You shouldn't refer to downloading music as theft. There's a bit of a gray area with the term and I could defend it all day. Theft implies that someone was going to purchase the product, not everyone downloads music instead of purchasing it. You're right in that intellectual property is non-rivalrous. It's not the same as removing a physical item from the posession of another. It is 'unauthorized use of intellectual property'. Maybe 'piracy' is a better word than theft; really, there's no totally accurate word for it, other than unauthorized use. That's a bit clumsy in and off itself though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottheisel Posted October 23, 2007 Share Posted October 23, 2007 You shouldn't refer to downloading music as theft. There's a bit of a gray area with the term and I could defend it all day. Theft implies that someone was going to purchase the product, not everyone downloads music instead of purchasing it. You're nuts. So if a guy steals a car, it's because he planned on buying one but figured it would be easier to steal instead? Theft is taking of something that doesn't belong to you. The end. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flicker Posted October 23, 2007 Share Posted October 23, 2007 lol slippery slope. 9/10 baby killers download music. Are you a baby killer? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrc Posted October 23, 2007 Share Posted October 23, 2007 ^ Haha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flood Posted October 23, 2007 Share Posted October 23, 2007 see theres alot of things most people aren't privy too that affect this argument. Yeah alot of artists say they don't care about people downloading... but those are generally artists on bigger labels, and those artists don't actually own their songs completely anymore. Most labels, even indie labels have ownership of some, if not all of the music they release. They traded rights to songs, ownership of masters etc.. for the backing the label provided. also... lets be honest... record execs are losing jobs. you know who is? all real people who work under them. i for the most part don't download anything i already don't own on another format (and am just to lazy to rip) or else unreleased/live/otherwise bootleg crap that i couldn't buy anyways. theres so many ways to check out music for free online that are totally kosher with the artists/labels... streaming, myspace, purevolume, altpress, etc etc etc... theres no excuse now for downloading. and when it really comes down to it... think about people like virgil. He's given his life to help promote and provide independent music from relatively no name artists to people.. as well as given us a nice space for a community.. thats the kinda guy thats get hits hardest by pirating. He's not a faceless jackoff with a pony tail and a porsche.. and theres lots of "virgils" out there... running the small distros, and indie record stores, and indie labels. Take a second to think of whom you're really "stealing" from. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Posted October 23, 2007 Share Posted October 23, 2007 i'll download whatever I want. if its any good, i'll buy it when I see the band live. I figure, i've booked shows for 9 years now, i've given bands their over-priced garuntee's whether or not I broke even or not, and that i've spent the money that would have been used buying records keeping those bands on the road from one show to the next. If the CIS record would have leaked before pre-orders I would not have bought it. but I did because they sampled only 4 songs from the record and I think that was crap because the other 7 on the record bum me the fuck out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thomas Posted October 23, 2007 Share Posted October 23, 2007 That's one of the arguments I have always seen. The only people suffering from early leaks are bands that make terrible records. I myself have always downloaded music, but in the past year or so I have moved over to buying a lot more CDs and vinyl and have also probably more than halved my downloading of previous years. I don't know if I felt bad or what, but I agree that downloading is not a right as most people seem to think it is these days. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xfedaykinx Posted October 23, 2007 Share Posted October 23, 2007 i find it interesting that the Cleveland police are involved in the investigation. which one of you ohioans tipped them off? hmmmmHHHMMMMM???? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
faith Posted October 23, 2007 Share Posted October 23, 2007 cleveland uk, not oh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xfedaykinx Posted October 23, 2007 Share Posted October 23, 2007 cleveland uk, not oh i had no idea it was in existence. makes considerable more sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mclz Posted October 23, 2007 Share Posted October 23, 2007 haha, okay now it makes sense to me as well. i was very confused why cleveland, oh had anything to do with it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matt Posted October 23, 2007 Share Posted October 23, 2007 i for the most part don't download anything i already don't own on another format (and am just to lazy to rip) or else unreleased/live/otherwise bootleg crap that i couldn't buy anyways.theres so many ways to check out music for free online that are totally kosher with the artists/labels... streaming, myspace, purevolume, altpress, etc etc etc... theres no excuse now for downloading. and when it really comes down to it... think about people like virgil. He's given his life to help promote and provide independent music from relatively no name artists to people.. as well as given us a nice space for a community.. thats the kinda guy thats get hits hardest by pirating. He's not a faceless jackoff with a pony tail and a porsche.. and theres lots of "virgils" out there... running the small distros, and indie record stores, and indie labels. Take a second to think of whom you're really "stealing" from. troof! nothing quite like returning home to some of your favorite independent record stores and finding it closed down since people are downloading and not buying. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest falloutcollapse Posted October 23, 2007 Share Posted October 23, 2007 First off, Thursday told me to download CD's, so I do. Jokes, don't smite me. But, I'm glad I was under 5 gigs and had a .4 ratio. Muhahahaha. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monk0nuggets Posted October 23, 2007 Share Posted October 23, 2007 I've never even heard of oink. I don't download music. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skumbucket Posted October 24, 2007 Share Posted October 24, 2007 i'll probably get sued, considering i only ever downloaded one album from there. and it was the new jimmy eat world. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
riddle350 Posted October 24, 2007 Share Posted October 24, 2007 why have I never heard of this site. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
riddle350 Posted October 24, 2007 Share Posted October 24, 2007 why have I never heard of this site. Because you always go outside. - Jeff Oh yeah that's right Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mclz Posted October 24, 2007 Share Posted October 24, 2007 http://torrentfreak.com/oink-admin-rele … dy-071023/OiNK Admin Released From Custody After a turbulent day the admin of the raided OiNK.cd was released from custody. At this point it is still unclear what the legal consequences will be, but it is good to see that OiNK is back home. The OiNK admin contacted TorrentFreak by email which confirms his release. As for the OiNK users, it is highly doubtful that the IFPI or BPI will go after them all, or even one of them. They do know how to scare people with messages like: “A criminal investigation continues into the identities and activities of the site’s users”, but there is no evidence that they actually will. More interesting perhaps, how did they gain access to the OiNK domain, and why are they allowed to spread this propaganda? They are not a law-enforcement agency. NFOrce, the ISP of OiNK, said today in an interview that they were not aware of any illegal activities surrounding the site. They thought OiNK was hosting a streaming video site or a weblog. Yeah, right. The BBC did a small report on the arrest with a lot of false information, releasing nonsense statements such as: “illegally downloading music onto his website” and “paying subscriptions to enter the website.” The video of the arrest is shown below, see for yourself. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QuwwMZKYxag Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corbet Posted October 24, 2007 Share Posted October 24, 2007 They won't go after users, only the admins/owners/people who leaked newest stuff. Regarding getting caught... if it happened it would be very easy to get off scott-free if you use wireless internet with no encryption. Problem is no one has tried to fight the RIAA (except the dumb person a couple months ago who had 1 computer + 1 account name + no wireless). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skumbucket Posted October 24, 2007 Share Posted October 24, 2007 yay! i have wireless! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattisr1984 Posted October 24, 2007 Share Posted October 24, 2007 i figured this would happen eventually. hate to come off like "i told you so" but when something illegal gets that big and that huge, its going to fall sooner or later. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thomas Posted October 24, 2007 Share Posted October 24, 2007 They won't go after users, only the admins/owners/people who leaked newest stuff.Regarding getting caught... if it happened it would be very easy to get off scott-free if you use wireless internet with no encryption. Problem is no one has tried to fight the RIAA (except the dumb person a couple months ago who had 1 computer + 1 account name + no wireless). The wireless excuse works until they seize your PC and find files on it. Of course the RIAA can't do that, as they are not a law organization nor is copyright infringement criminal, it is civil. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kirbypuckett Posted October 24, 2007 Author Share Posted October 24, 2007 I've been thinking about this a lot since yesterday. The reason I'll miss Oink the most is not because I could download ANY album I want, but the fact that all the rare things that are roughly impossible to obtain. There's so many things that I never knew existed that I found on Oink. It brought back the old days of looking for rare b-sides on comps. and what not in record stores. Scott, your car analogy works to defeat my argument, however you cannot call downloading music theft. The guy who said "unauthorized use" was correct in his remarks. Downloading an album takes nothing from no one, thus no theft. It's data, some argue it wants to be free. You can make the argument that if someone downloads an album then they're robbing the artist, but not everyone has the intent to buy. Also, for us who have been involved with the press side of music and received promos in advance, imagine having that perk stripped from you. Wouldn't you be curious to hear those records before everyone else still? Yeah, that's greedy, but I got used to that lifestyle, haha. The record industry needs to change. You cannot defeat piracy. End of story. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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